GUILTY UK - Rebecca Watts, 16, Bristol, 19 Feb 2015 #6

[onthecounter]

The fact her fist was clenched indicates she was dismembered in rigor. She was probably in rigor when 'do you want to hide a body?' Was searched on YouTube. This brings up a frozen parody that the accused may have seen previously in which there is a line 'it doesn't have to be in one piece'. NM and SH may not have realised rigor is temporary...

 

[skibaboo]

That's an old photo taken from the initial search at either Beckys house or Wilton Close - I forget which but we had discussion on it at the time..I don't believe it's relevant iirc

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Ah the infamous bin! One was removed very similar from Beckys house but that one in the picture here is from Wilton Close (home of SH's Mother) Check the map, the same photo is on there under Wilson Close Search https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=zZD4sPiErdd8.kDA5cYEhghvU

 

[sar2them1984]

Ah the infamous bin! One was removed very similar from Beckys house but that one in the picture here is from Wilton Close (home of SH's Mother) Check the map, the same photo is on there under Wilson Close Search https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=zZD4sPiErdd8.kDA5cYEhghvU

I knew someone else would remember the infamous bin..thanks skibs

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[sar2them1984]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...told-police-teenager-annoyed-rude-mother.html

Good run of how the parcels were pa kaged and why they were packaged as they were...

Also describes the difficulty police had in identifying what was in packages

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[Cherwell]

I don't know what to make of SH 2nd interview, other than the fact that you can see she is showing a bump, hands clasped together like she's a fragile little thing & she flutters them eyes. Oh, and the fact she keeps talking about becky in the past tense, that's so obvious.

I think she is as guilty as NM, I am convinced she was in beckys bedroom at some point. Something worth thinking about maybe is could the reason she lost the twins be due to the fact of the struggle, maybe becky kicked her in the stomach when fighting for her life? Who knows. Just thinking out loud.

We haven't been told the outcome of her pregnancy. It's quite possible that she gave birth while in custody.

 

[Cherwell]

I agree that perhaps a good majority of them didn't know what it was initially.

However, I think the argument is that it should have been exceedingly obvious as the days went by, because of the timeline of events, and the fact this was a widely covered case at the time.

Granted, that it takes actually believing the suspect was capable of the heinous act of dismemberment, to actually believe that those bags were something heinous. Because clearly those bags would not resemble anything like an intact body. And I do believe some individuals in society simply cannot fathom somebody can be that evil as an initial response, especially somebody they must have known for a long time, and will therefore not connect the dots immediately to have called the cops.

Ultimately, the charges should still stand, as they all had indeed engaged in perversing the course of justice.

Only NM and SH have been charged with perverting the course of justice, not the other four defendants. The other four have been charged with assisting an offender.

 

[Insp.Dots]

I have followed many of these trials now and each one strikes me as tragic & horrific. This one however is off the scale.....I understand hate, rage jealousy etc but how someone could do this to another human being really is beyond me. I had thought that maybe SH with her background was so 'desperate' for NM's love had gone along with things and been persuaded HE had done it all for the right reasons and used their Daughter as incentive for her to back all that he told Police and to help cover up. However, she has sat emotionless in that courtroom through all of this knowing the whole story, how can she not beg forgiveness and ,make a start at putting things right by finally telling all she knows. Whether she helped kill Becky or was only dragged into it by NM she could have done the right thing. I'm sure her Solicitor would have told her NM at least is going down for a very long time, there is never going to be a Happy Ever After in this! But no Love conquers all so she will keep up the pretence and get a kick out of standing by her man. I hope they both get 'Whole Life' with no parole and that any Children are given a completely new start elsewhere! Truly Horrific...Thanks to all for their posts and the amazing work of UK Crimes against Children for showing the country just how devoid of any humanity this pair are! All MOO

 

[Beesknees]

Becky missing was the motive I joined WS in the begin of last March. Little could I know at the time that her disappearence would turn out to be her horrific murder. In my opinion both SH and NM killed her. I deeply believe there is no way that a 'nosy' full of hatred for Becky and like a twin to her partner SH, would be outside smoking or feeding the rabbit while he was killing his stepsister. No way! They both did it and they both enjoyed doing it :sick:. The only thing I think that wasn't planned was it to happen in Becky's house. They would do to her similar to what homolka and bernardo did to their victims. This way Becky at least didn't suffer during so much time as if they had taken her to their filthy lair. Perhaps they didn't expect the strength she had to fight for her life.

I wonder if they didn't have marks of the fight. Surely Becky's father and stepmother must know if they had something in their hands or faces as we know they passed the whole day there in their house and left only by night. How could they?! Facing his mother, her father, her boyfriend with their rotten faces knowing they had her in the driveway, dead inside the car! What is frightful is to think these two are aparently common young adults, parents and at the same time so disgusting and evil.

I am so sorry Becky. Almost still a child and lost her life inside her house by two family members. Her only crime was simply to exist

edited to add - My marriage with the mother of someone who had taken my child's life in this way wouldn't last more than a couple of days. Don't know if Mr. Galsworthy will be able to face life beside his wife even I believe she too is a victim in this and must be suffering lots, but anyway, I couldn't...

 

[eneri12]

They keep reporting that NM made a disclosure about RWs disappearance, I'm guessing that means he told the police where she was. Also that daily mail article says JI and KD were arrested trying to leave the property but I've not seen that reported anywhere else. I am of course aware I'm quoting the daily fail 😏

 

[Beesknees]

They keep reporting that NM made a disclosure about RWs disappearance, I'm guessing that means he told the police where she was. Also that daily mail article says JI and KD were arrested trying to leave the property but I've not seen that reported anywhere else. I am of course aware I'm quoting the daily fail ��

I too noticed it and it could be truth. Perhaps they were prepared to run away feeling the police aproaching. At least until now the couple who pleaded guilty to assisting an offender were the only ones with some kind of dignity. Who knows if they are the only ones innocent in all this? Could Ireland and one of the Demetrius brothers know what the packages contained and the other couple thought it was drugs or stollen goods?

 

[Hexenb]

Nathan stretches and yawns in the dock. Judge turns but does not say anything.......

I can't say what I want to say...

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This part really got to me what a heartless, disrespectful evil thing he is

 

[YidArmyRach]

I'm wondering if the female suspect was playing the role of a lookout and/or potential assistant if the male suspect required additional help. Surely somebody must be playing that role of a lookout, even as they had a good idea of everybody else's schedule.

The idea might be that the male suspect is a man, and hence supposedly much stronger than the so called "anorexic" girl. Maybe the male suspect handled everything himself. Maybe he called out for help.

My theory is she was probably assigned as the lookout person, who may or may not have helped with the actual fatal blows during the critical moments of the kidnapping/murder, if the male suspect had called for backup.

Am I correct in thinking that Becky's stepmum was at home with Becky and NM & SH before she left for her appointment?

If so, then NM and SH would have known that as soon as Becky was reported missing, they'd be the automatic suspects as they would be the last people to see her alive. Also the stepmother would possibly mention to whoever was driving her to the appointment, that she'd left all 3 of them at home. So I am finding it had to believe their story of planning to kidnap her.

I can't believe even they would be so stupid as to kidnap someone when witnesses would be able to place them at the house when Becky went missing. Ok they could lie and say she left, but its not much of an alibi, especially when they would know that nobody would be able to claim to have seen Becky afterwards, so the trail would always go cold after the 3 of them were placed at the house.

I think that something happened which hadn't been planned. I think it occurred on the spur of the moment - which would explain why all their clean up and disposal arrangements were made afterwards. If they had planned to kidnap Becky, they could hardly take her to that hovel of a house they had, there'd be nowhere to keep her - especially without their child seeing.

I wonder if the child has given the police any information - would that be classed as being 'tipped off'? Maybe innocently talking about mummy and daddy taking lots of bags somewhere, or seeing Aunty Becky 'asleep' or even talking about her parents being in the bathroom making lots of noise. I find it hard to believe the poor child didn't see or hear anything during the killing or disposal of Becky. It must have taken hours to do those awful things in their home, and if the child was there the entire time, she must have seen and heard things.

I don't know why they have come up with a kidnap story, but its obviously a 'nicer' story that what did happen - which is chilling.

And no way did SH not know what was happening. A person fighting for their life would make a lot of noise, over a period of time. To inflict 40 injuries, that would have taken minutes and minutes. And, if you only helped after an accidental death (as is their story), surely you'd get upset hearing about the attack and injuries Becky suffered? The fact that SH didn't react at all makes me think she was totally involved.

All just my opinion.

 

[Edinlass]

I'm pretty sure they let themselves into the house as Anjie had already left for a hospital appointment, becky died while she was away and placed in the boot of NMs car. Then Anjie got back and they concocted the story about hearing her leave slamming the door, stomping down the stair etc.

I do however agree that the police would have suspected NM & SH very early on, their body language and the use of past tense becky would have sent alarm bells ringing IMO

 

[Beesknees]

Am I correct in thinking that Becky's stepmum was at home with Becky and NM & SH before she left for her appointment?

If so, then NM and SH would have known that as soon as Becky was reported missing, they'd be the automatic suspects as they would be the last people to see her alive. Also the stepmother would possibly mention to whoever was driving her to the appointment, that she'd left all 3 of them at home. So I am finding it had to believe their story of planning to kidnap her.

I can't believe even they would be so stupid as to kidnap someone when witnesses would be able to place them at the house when Becky went missing. Ok they could lie and say she left, but its not much of an alibi, especially when they would know that nobody would be able to claim to have seen Becky afterwards, so the trail would always go cold after the 3 of them were placed at the house.

I think that something happened which hadn't been planned. I think it occurred on the spur of the moment - which would explain why all their clean up and disposal arrangements were made afterwards. If they had planned to kidnap Becky, they could hardly take her to that hovel of a house they had, there'd be nowhere to keep her - especially without their child seeing. (I wonder if the child has given the police any information?).

I don't know why they have come up with a kidnap story, but its obviously a 'nicer' story that what did happen - which is chilling.

And no way did SH not know what was happening. A person fighting for their life would make a lot of noise, over a period of time. To inflict 40 injuries, that would have taken minutes and minutes. And, if you only helped after an accidental death (as is their story), surely you'd get upset hearing about the attack and injuries Becky suffered? The fact that SH didn't react at all makes me think she was totally involved.

All just my opinion.

From my understanding they arrived after the stepmother left for the hospital. They even used a key that was hidden outside. In my opinion SH not only knew but she also had part in her death, inflicting her some blows and helping NM restraining her.

As for the noise, I don't think poor Becky made too much vocal noise as hands must have been placed over her mouth, but yes, a lot of noise from bumps and stomps. I keep wondering if she didn't scratch them or even bite his fingers while her mouth was covered. She had several injuries in her lips and gums...

 

[Alyce]

I'm pretty sure they let themselves into the house as Anjie had already left for a hospital appointment, becky died while she was away and placed in the boot of NMs car. Then Anjie got back and they concocted the story about hearing her leave slamming the door, stomping down the stair etc.

I do however agree that the police would have suspected NM & SH very early on, their body language and the use of past tense becky would have sent alarm bells ringing IMO

Yes, reports I read stated that AG departed for her hospital appointment - 10.30 ish ?
NM/SH were shopping for batteries at 10.50 hrs, before they went to the house.
Becky sent her last text at 11.04 hrs.
AG arrived back to the house at 12.30 ish

 

[Lady Demelza]

Well it was the discrepancy over that and what someone else picked up that he's only a bit taller than RW and it's reported he said he had a shoulder injury, could SH have been stronger and more able? Given how much it seems she hated RW if she wanted to physically hurt her I daresay she could, and yes the washing of the hands twice was it? Makes me think of what the analyst said in the UK crimes against children Facebook page about washing hands, it's almost a symbolic thing imo.

What a truly horrific day of testimony, I knew it would be bad, but not this bad.
In terms of SH being possibly stronger, I'm doubtful of this. At this point SH was 17 weeks pregnant with twins. Having carried a multiple birth I can state that this would be more like being 6 months pregnant, same size, same mobility issues etc, not really a situation to be in if needing to restrict/ restrain someone , particularly a fit healthy girl fighting for her life. Although NM is short in stature that doesn't necessarily mean shirt on strenghth. I'm presuming he was fairly fit as a former TA. After watching SH's second interview I'm still leaning towards a lack of initial involvement, although lots of other things point towards this not being the case. Maybe she truly is a psychopath and monsters walk amongst us, as any websleuther knows only too well.
What a tragedy, god bless you Becky.

 

[Hexenb]

After reading how Becky put up such a fight surely NM would have had some sort of marks on him somewhere a scratch or bruise, even if there were none on his face maybe some elsewhere on his body and I'm sure SH would have noticed if there was. Just another theory pointing towards SH knowing exactly what went on.Maybe he did get hurt that's why he inflicted so many wounds on her after she was killed as it was very ferocious what he did.

 

[Lady Demelza]

I agree with someone else earlier that Becky's bedroom seems too immaculate (by way of blood splatter) for the actual murder to have been committed inside her bedroom. I somehow don't buy that unless they prepped the place with covers. There are signs of struggle, yes, such as the broken shelves presumably not damaged by forensic investigators. But there appears, based on the description, to have been very little blood splatter other than a bloody fingerprint belonging to the male victim.

However, the fact that the forensic pathologists noted the victim sustained multiple stab wounds while she was still alive, this would probably have left a mess. Even if she died from suffocation/strangulation, the stab wounds were done when she was alive. Something might be amiss here. A clearer chain of events describing the physical altercation might be helpful.

The toilet where they allegedly did the disposal is cluttered with crap just besides the bathtub. Either they prepped the place, or else there must be physical evidence like blood splatter or tissue matter left on the items there. I also doubt they actually used much of the circular saw. Its a powerful tool and there will be lots of mess. Also, did they somehow drape the bathtub? Because otherwise, investigators should have taken the pipework to do testing on it, as evidence will surely have trickled their way down there if the suspects simply flushed away some residual evidence and cleaning solution.

Sorry I think I've missed something, Ive read so much today. I thought the stab/ screwdriver wounds were post mortem, or has other info come out today? The bruises and cuts to Becky's face were prior to her demise?

 

[Cherwell]

Sorry I think I've missed something, Ive read so much today. I thought the stab/ screwdriver wounds were post mortem, or has other info come out today? The bruises and cuts to Becky's face were prior to her demise?

You are correct - the other poster has it wrong.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Random thoughts and ramblings by me:

Suffocation/strangulation issue - could he/she/they have had a hand round her neck and one over her mouth at the same time? If she passed out due to pressure on her neck she could have suffocated as was unable to struggle.

Do we know where the knife was from? Did they take it with them or was it from Beckys kitchen?

The fact their child is a little girl somehow makes this even worse.

I've got a couple of pages to catch up on so forgive me if this has been said.