GUILTY UK - Rolf Harris for molesting underage girls, child *advertiser censored*, 2013

[Ausgirl]

But he hasn't 'shown who he is'.

Of the three who've spoken up against him, one's been dismissed by police, one's an obvious liar being paid thousands for her statements....

There's only FOUR images in question, and nobody outside of LE and legal counsel knows whether those images were "category 1" shot of his grandkids playing innocently, non-sexualised reference pics for his art, or something actually sinister and pornographic.

I can't see this as Rolf 'showing' anything, at this stage.

Gods forbid he's innocent. 'Sorry' won't restore his good name.

 

[EGirl]

But he hasn't 'shown who he is'.

Of the three who've spoken up against him, one's been dismissed by police, one's an obvious liar being paid thousands for her statements....

There's only FOUR images in question, and nobody outside of LE and legal counsel knows whether those images were "category 1" shot of his grandkids playing innocently, non-sexualised reference pics for his art, or something actually sinister and pornographic.

I can't see this as Rolf 'showing' anything, at this stage.

Gods forbid he's innocent. 'Sorry' won't restore his good name.

It was in response to the 'racist comments' post.

 

[wfgodot]

In re: artists and pornographic images and sexual offenses, this was an instructive non-U.S. case:

Renowned artist Graham Ovenden found guilty of child indecency, assault charges - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

 

[Ausgirl]

Again, a few ill-advised public comments made almost 50 years ago, calling on Aboriginal people to clean up the rubbish on their properties, does not 'show who he is'. IMO.

If this is the only dirt the media can dig up outside of the present charges - well. Idk.

 

[Flinders]

Please let this be sarcasm. Because if not, just, WHAT?

Someone else said that an artist may have nudes for artistic purposes.

Child *advertiser censored* is DEGRADING of the child. It is not a kid frolicking on the beach or a baby in a bubble bath.

 

[Ausgirl]

Someone else said that an artist may have nudes for artistic purposes.

Child *advertiser censored* is DEGRADING of the child. It is not a kid frolicking on the beach or a baby in a bubble bath.

I just quoted the legal definition of Category 1 images that may be relevant to Rolf's charges above, though, which DOES include those things. Family albums, etc.. from that above post:

Category 1 'indecent images' can include:

“Non-erotic and non-sexualised pictures showing children in their underwear, swimming costumes from either commercial sources or family albums."

If Rolf's images show children being abused or displaying their genitals or something, case closed IMO. They could hang him, for all I'd care.

But what if they're not? We don't know yet. I would really like to know, before I denounce him as a pedo.

 

[Flinders]

Again, a few ill-advised public comments made almost 50 years ago, calling on Aboriginal people to clean up the rubbish on their properties, does not 'show who he is'. IMO.

If this is the only dirt the media can dig up outside of the present charges - well. Idk.

The comments were made again in 2008.

Quote...

Rolf Harris says sorry for racist song lyrics... then goes on to slam 'lazy' Aborigines

By RICHARD SHEARS
UPDATED: 01:23 GMT, 29 November 2008

It was the song which made his name both in Britain and his native Australia.
But Rolf Harris came to regret the lyrics in his 1960 hit Tie Me Kangaroo Down Sport for their racist slur against Aborigines. Yesterday, the veteran entertainer apologised for the reference to 'Abos' in the song.

However, Mr Harris, 78, then went on to undo all his good intentions by telling Aborigines to 'get up off your arse and clean up the streets your bloody self'.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-goes-slam-lazy-Aborigines.html#ixzz2eAWi3WuG
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

 

[Flinders]

I just quoted the legal definition of Category 1 images that may be relevant to Rolf's charges above, though, which DOES include those things. Family albums, etc.. from that above post:

Category 1 'indecent images' can include:

“Non-erotic and non-sexualised pictures showing children in their underwear, swimming costumes from either commercial sources or family albums."

If Rolf's images show children being abused or displaying their genitals or something, case closed IMO. They could hang him, for all I'd care.

But what if they're not? We don't know yet. I would really like to know, before I denounce him as a pedo.

I read on the website that this is Category 1...

images are alleged to be at Level 1(images of erotic posing, with no sexual activity)
http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/h_to_k/indecent_photographs_of_children/

 

[Ausgirl]

Okay, that's pretty curmudgeonly of him. Poor taste, and definitely non-PC.

Nothing to do with with the court case, however. It just shows he hasn't moved on at all from the prevailing (and yes, shamefully racist, as it's poverty that tends to encourage the trashing of one's own neighbourhood, not race) attitudes of 50 years ago.

 

[Flinders]

In looking at the nature of the material the Sentencing Council has categorised such material into five levels of seriousness with level five being the most serious.

Level one: Images of erotic posing, with no sexual activity;

Level two: Non-penetrative sexual activities between children, or solo masturbation by a child;

Level three: Non-penetrative sexual activity between adults and children;

Level four: Penetrative sexual activity involving a child or children, or both children and adults;

Level five: Sadism or involving the penetration of, or by, an animal.

http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/h_to_k/indecent_photographs_of_children/#a03

I can't say any family album has a picture of the erotic posing of a child under 18.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Rolf grew up in Perth.

Like Adelaide, it has a high indigenous population.

He is entitled to his opinion (here at least) and he's not alone in it, either. It's not referred to as The Aboriginal Problem for nothing. Most Americans don't know that child sexual abuse and violence became so bad in some communities the Army were sent in a couple of years ago. I believe they are still there, peace keeping. It's good money to go remote.

If he is "racist", well so is every other Australian - I include folks from all walks of life in that too. Filipinos don't like Chinese, Chinese don't like Vietnamese, don't even bother to invite an Ethiopian to a Somalian picnic, etc.

Only in Australia could you have a brand of cheese called Coon and a movie franchise called Wogboys.

On and on it goes...we are multicultural here, in a true way - by which I mean, everyone can offend everyone else equally, and most of it is meant in a non-vindictive way, especially older Australians.

A lot of them don't like any sort of Asian due to WWII, and you know what? I don't blame them...they are all still traumatised from what the Japanese did on Kokoda and other places.

Down here at least, its not like the US where Race is a big dirty hot potato and racism although everywhere, is the dirty secret no one admits to.

Rolf is a highly decorated. loved and celebrated Australian, and he didn't get there by being a racist child molester. :moo:

We just aren't that PC down here and to be honest, Rolf's sentiments are shared by a LOT of non-indigenous Australians, wherever they were born. I have no doubt he's had a whinge about the English too as he's lived there for years.

We're all imports here...or our parents are. You cant walk down the street without hearing 12 different languages.

Anyway, even if he is a racist old coot - it doesn't automatically mean he's a child molester. :banghead:

 

[Ausgirl]

I read on the website that this is Category 1...

images are alleged to be at Level 1(images of erotic posing, with no sexual activity)
http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/h_to_k/indecent_photographs_of_children/

Okay - more research shows that the above is from the 5-point SAP scale, adapted in 2002 from the 10-point COPINE scale used previously, from which I have quoted.

COPINE scale - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So it seems that according to SAP, the four images, at the least, had to be of nude children, or deemed to be 'erotically' posed.

I would still really like to know what the images were before swinging a wrecking ball at a man's reputation, after 60 years of it being (aside from the aforementioned curmugeonisms) a pretty good one.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Okay - more research shows that the above is from the 5-point SAP scale, adapted in 2002 from the 10-point COPINE scale used previously, from which I have quoted.

COPINE scale - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So it seems that according to SAP, the four images, at the least, had to be of nude children, or deemed to be 'erotically' posed.

I would still really like to know what the images were before swinging a wrecking ball at a man's reputation, after 60 years of it being (aside from the aforementioned curmugeonisms) a pretty good one.

Category one = kids in SWIMMING COSTUMES???????????

We're all pedos! I took pics of my kids in a paddling pool AND in the bath!!!!

 

[SapphireSteel]

No, I think Cappuccino is right, I think he downloaded child *advertiser censored*.

Based on what?

Wouldn't "child *advertiser censored*" be a bit more than kids in bathers?

 

[Ausgirl]

I can't say any family album has a picture of the erotic posing of a child under 18.

See, this is what bothers me here.

A handful of women, three to be exact, and two of whom have proved themselves unreliable of memory at best, and totally dishonest and opportunistic at worst, state that Rolf abused them or was seen to be an abuser several decades ago. Charges are laid.

A warrant is issued, the police raid his house - with the objective of finding incriminating images to support those charges - and find a grand total of four images that could possibly fit the bill.

Now, if that was MY house? I have naked piccies of my baby. I have pics of her posing like a pageant girl in various sparkly outfits. I have pics of her mugging for the camera as a pre-teen, doing the myspace 'ducklips' thing. Etc. Would they fit Category 1? Who knows.

eta: As an artist, I also have several pictures of females from childhood to adult, drawing and photographs (both are covered under SAP) both naked and clothed, in various poses, as reference material for my art.

If I'd been accused of being a pedo, and the cops swooped in hunting for stuff to back those charges up - I'd be a goner, I'm afraid.

And that is what I am afraid of here. That among real pedos like Jimmy Savile there'll be men who have done nothing wrong caught up in this retro pedo hunt. There already has been -- and the damage to their reputations and goodwill cannot be taken back or undone.

 

[SapphireSteel]

But he hasn't 'shown who he is'.

Of the three who've spoken up against him, one's been dismissed by police, one's an obvious liar being paid thousands for her statements....

There's only FOUR images in question, and nobody outside of LE and legal counsel knows whether those images were "category 1" shot of his grandkids playing innocently, non-sexualised reference pics for his art, or something actually sinister and pornographic.

I can't see this as Rolf 'showing' anything, at this stage.

Gods forbid he's innocent. 'Sorry' won't restore his good name.

He is innocent, that female on ACA was enjoying the hell out of her 5 minutes of "fame"...poised on the edge of her chair like she was fascinated with her own story.

I thought there were only two accusers anyway, Tonya Lee and one in the UK?

Have I missed one?

 

[Flinders]

Why would anyone have a reason to charge RH for 4 pictures of a child in a swimsuit?

 

[SapphireSteel]

Why would anyone have a reason to charge RH for 4 pictures of a child in a swimsuit?

:dunno:

Like that dad in the states who got arrested for taking photos of his kids at bathtime?

 

[Ausgirl]

He is innocent, that female on ACA was enjoying the hell out of her 5 minutes of "fame"...poised on the edge of her chair like she was fascinated with her own story.

I thought there were only two accusers anyway, Tonya Lee and one in the UK?

Have I missed one?

There were three women interviewed, AFAIK. One of them was here in Aus, who claimed to have witnessed Rolf abusing an underage girl in the 90's. Channel 7 shows her here:

http://www.3news.co.nz/Kiwi-woman-s...arris/tabid/417/articleID/296341/Default.aspx


"Meanwhile, one of Martell's Neighbours said she was an erratic character, according to The Age.

Neighbours said officers had been called to deal with disturbances involving the 43-year-old who lives alone."

http://tvnz.co.nz/world-news/former-kiwi-tells-uk-police-rolf-harris-incident-5426024

 

[SapphireSteel]

Again, a few ill-advised public comments made almost 50 years ago, calling on Aboriginal people to clean up the rubbish on their properties, does not 'show who he is'. IMO.

If this is the only dirt the media can dig up outside of the present charges - well. Idk.

I wish some of my Aboriginal neighbours would clean up their properties too! As well as the Greeks over the road! And the Aussies can walk their yapping mutts once in a while!

:scared: