GUILTY UK - Tia Sharp, 12, New Addington, London, 3 Aug 2012 #3

[Clio]

Yes, this is my theory. I'm not for one minute suggesting they moved the body. I'm asking whether it's possible they were there to ask for help to move it (and failed) or for a different reason.

To my mind it makes zero sense for them to believe it would look good to be seen (?) at a (not so local) fair unless Tia had expressed a desire to go there.

Which she didn't or he would have justified looking around a random venue by saying "Tia saw the poster for the fair so we checked there". Why check the fair? Why? Why when there are so many local kiddie areas to check?

One answer is because THEY wanted to blame the disappearance on the travellers. But that's thin bearing in mind she was supposed to be in central Croydon.

Surely there's another reason. My reason is because SH knew travellers. But that's been poo-pooed.

I agree there is something significant attached to the fair and it's probably not that TS might have gone there on her own on the way back from Croydon.

The problem I have with CS being aware of TS being dead from the start is the timing. Why did they report her missing so quickly with the body still in the loft? TS was due to stay for the whole weekend. But perhaps there was some routine that forced the timescale e.g. TS was expected to call NS every night before bed or something.

It makes more sense to me that SH put the body in the loft and did his clean-up before CS got home. Then things escalated, TS got reported missing, the police and family descended on the house and there was no opportunity to move the body.

It was only when reporters interviewed the fairground staff after SH gave his interview that it became public knowledge they didn't remember SH/CS asking about TS. Now the police may have interviewed the fairground staff early on if the fairground story was told to them at the start. No reason we would know. Therefore, police may have known very early on who their prime suspect(s) was/were. But then, that makes the deficiencies in the Sunday morning 2 hour search even worse.

I guess we will just have to wait for the trial if indeed there is one.

 

[MobyBluff]

that was my point, if he'd been asked to give that interview on satuday instead of thursday i think the whole thing would have ended a lot sooner.

Bang on!

 

[MobyBluff]

I agree there is something significant attached to the fair and it's probably not that TS might have gone there on her own on the way back from Croydon.

The problem I have with CS being aware of TS being dead from the start is the timing. Why did they report her missing so quickly with the body still in the loft? TS was due to stay for the whole weekend. But perhaps there was some routine that forced the timescale e.g. TS was expected to call NS every night before bed or something.

It makes more sense to me that SH put the body in the loft and did his clean-up before CS got home. Then things escalated, TS got reported missing, the police and family descended on the house and there was no opportunity to move the body.

It was only when reporters interviewed the fairground staff after SH gave his interview that it became public knowledge they didn't remember SH/SC asking about TS. Now the police may have interviewed the fairground staff early on if the fairground story was told to them at the start. No reason we would know. Therefore, police may have known very early on who their prime suspect(s) was/were. But then, that makes the deficiencies in the Sunday morning 2 hour search even worse.

I guess we will just have to wait for the trial if indeed there is one.

I really really like your thinking here. Give me some time to invent another theory that continues mine. Like they were looking for TS's older boyfriend....

Separately, I'd like to apologise for the rubbish "i've heard rumours" message yesterday

 

[Skigh]

Brilliant ideas.....and let's not forget CS was with him......so which theory do you choose?

I am not sure. I think the point about the fair that makes me wonder the most is how involved other members of the family are or are not involved and was the actual intention to try and remove Tia from the property that evening before reporting her missing..

 

[India99]

I really really like your thinking here. Give me some time to invent another theory that continues mine. Like they were looking for TS's older boyfriend....

Separately, I'd like to apologise for the rubbish "i've heard rumours" message yesterday

i'm guessing those rumours were exactly that then.

 

[India99]

I am not sure. I think the point about the fair that makes me wonder the most is how involved other members of the family are or are not involved and was the actual intention to try and remove Tia from the property that evening before reporting her missing..

or they could have just carried her body to the car once it got a bit darker and driven her into the hundreds of sq miles of countryside that starts at the end of the estate.

wouldn't be the first time that somebody on that estate who was murdered ended up in those country lanes.

 

[Skigh]

I agree there is something significant attached to the fair and it's probably not that TS might have gone there on her own on the way back from Croydon.

The problem I have with CS being aware of TS being dead from the start is the timing. Why did they report her missing so quickly with the body still in the loft? TS was due to stay for the whole weekend. But perhaps there was some routine that forced the timescale e.g. TS was expected to call NS every night before bed or something. It makes more sense to me that SH put the body in the loft and did his clean-up before CS got home. Then things escalated, TS got reported missing, the police and family descended on the house and there was no opportunity to move the body.

It was only when reporters interviewed the fairground staff after SH gave his interview that it became public knowledge they didn't remember SH/SC asking about TS. Now the police may have interviewed the fairground staff early on if the fairground story was told to them at the start. No reason we would know. Therefore, police may have known very early on who their prime suspect(s) was/were. But then, that makes the deficiencies in the Sunday morning 2 hour search even worse.

I guess we will just have to wait for the trial if indeed there is one.

Could it be something to do with the mobile phone they could not say she went missing on Saturday evening as it would show her mobile had been in the house for that time.

 

[Skigh]

or they could have just carried her body to the car once it got a bit darker and driven her into the hundreds of sq miles of countryside that starts at the end of the estate.

wouldn't be the first time that somebody on that estate who was murdered ended up in those country lanes.

Would there be any cctv or number plate recognition. CS could be worried about evidence left in her car.

 

[India99]

Would there be any cctv or number plate recognition. CS could be worried about evidence left in her car.

i doubt it very much if she was leaving at that end of the estate.

 

[India99]

O/T and the estate makes the news again today

http://www.thisiscroydontoday.co.uk...ew-Addington/story-16725422-detail/story.html

 

[India99]

Would there be any cctv or number plate recognition. CS could be worried about evidence left in her car.

evidence left in a car that the kid probably went into a lot ?

if they had got rid of the body the same night then there would be no fluids etc, maybe just a bit of DNA which could easily be explained as it was her granddaughter

 

[Skigh]

i doubt it very much if she was leaving at that end of the estate.

I do find it confusing why Tia was left in the loft when there was so much open country side ahead.

SH without transport would have found it difficult to remove her .Yet I find it hard to think that CS did not know Tia was dead.:banghead:

 

[Skigh]

evidence left in a car that the kid probably went into a lot ?

if they had got rid of the body the same night then there would be no fluids etc, maybe just a bit of DNA which could easily be explained as it was her granddaughter

I think this is why this case is so confusing many bits define logic.

I suppose it is the unexplained bits that keep me here seeing what other people's ideas are.

 

[laurielee]

Re:CS. She alerted police almost straight away. There's no way she'd do that if she could have bought them more time to get the story straight/hide the body. Even if SH was behaving strangely afterwards this could easily have been put down to stress and worry. The only discrepancy is the fair, which could be explained as her making up a story as she felt guilty at not searching hard enough when Tia was first missing.
Initially I wasn't sure but now I'm thinking she's probably innocent.

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

I am not blaming her death on their financial circumstances, or even on their lack of responsibility, in that they had her allegedly sleeping on the sofa as there were too few bedrooms for them all, which may have lead to her spending more and more time with her G'ma and her unsavoury partner - and that if I were TS parent, I would have given up my own room for her to sleep in.

The blame lies squarely with the perpetrator of the crime.

the blame does lie on the perpetrator(s).....

Otherwise we can keep expanding the circle of "blamees" to society in general, to global warming.. Then ultimately to God, him/herself!

O/T.... but... I actually DID read about a "clever" person who tried to sue God in court. the courts, however, we're more clever than this joker because they reported they could not find an address for God... Therefore the case was dropped!

Just had to share that with you all!

:smile:

 

[Skigh]

Re:CS. She alerted police almost straight away. There's no way she'd do that if she could have bought them more time to get the story straight/hide the body. Even if SH was behaving strangely afterwards this could easily have been put down to stress and worry. The only discrepancy is the fair, which could be explained as her making up a story as she felt guilty at not searching hard enough when Tia was first missing.
Initially I wasn't sure but now I'm thinking she's probably innocent.

Their actions that evening do not fit in with looking for a missing girl.

I know we only have what we hear in the press and what the police wish to reveal,but we do have the interview SH gave about their actions that night.

No worried visits to neighbours, In the interview SH did not mention phoning NS to see if she was there .They left the house only an hour after she was due home and did not seem to return there until after their visit to NS when the police were informed.

They allegedly visited the fair but according to fair workers were not seen and were not asking after a missing girl.

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

Sadly, you could be right. Bullies/ abusers usually prey on those perceived to be weak and easy targets.

If TS was unhappy at home and/ or being beaten/ abused there, she would have been a prime target for anyone else looking for a 'victim,' whether that was at school or at her G'ma's.

It also seems that TS was petite for her age, so unless she was a tough little girl, may have not had the wherewithall to fight back or stand her ground, if necessary.

On the other hand, she may well have taken after what we know of G'ma (having spent time with her and SH) and been a little too tough and ended up winding people up and getting into trouble that way.

Or may have just developed bruising through playing and getting up to the usual mischief of childhood.

Tragic.

and/or bruising from vitamin deficiencies.

Not stated in judgement.. Just stated as a theory surrounding hypotheses of possible abuse and/or neglect.

if pizza and fries were a standard part of her diet... Then vitamin deficiency could be a factor in bruising readily.

JMO and MOO

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

I agree that any bruises could have been caused by a multitude of different knocks. You should see my daughters arms and legs after a Sunday football match for instance.

then you should lighten up on your poor girl... Shouldn't you?

:giggle:

 

[India99]

and/or bruising from vitamin deficiencies.

Not stated in judgement.. Just stated as a theory surrounding hypotheses of possible abuse and/or neglect.

if pizza and fries were a standard part of her diet... Then vitamin deficiency could be a factor in bruising readily.

JMO and MOO

bloody hell, i should be covered in bruises then lol

 

[Skigh]

With regard to Tia's truancy from school and people questioning whether she may have been bullied there. I work at a large secondary school in a poor area, with a high uptake of free school dinners (the usual indicator of a deprived area) so I can only base my thoughts on my experiences. My main area of work is with Year 7 (Tia's age group), and in learning support - again an area Tia fits in.

In my experience, it is actually quite rare for children to truant due to bullying. Most school will have a good anti-bullying policy, and various staff designated to deal with this. From what I have seen, truancy often occurs with children who have problems at home. It may be due to family breakdowns/divorce; where there is a single parent and a large number of children or with families where both parents are unemployed. Sadly, the main reason the children truant, is because there isn't a responsible parent around making sure they go to school. Sometimes the parents simply don't care about the child's education, other times they may be asleep with hangovers (or simply sleep in late on school mornings as they have stayed up very late the night before as no reason to get up early) so they aren't around to ensure the children go to school. Other parents simply can't cope with bringing up their children. Children from homes like this often get drawn to other children with backgrounds similar to their own, so will truant together. They see no reason to get an education, as they don't have appropriate role models or can't see why education is relevant.

Another reason for truanting is children with Special Educational Needs struggle at school, and if they struggle too much and aren't getting the help and support they need, they will first of all misbehave to take attention away from the fact they "can't do it" and make it appear that they "won't do it". This can then lead onto the child simply refusing to go to lessons any more.

Obviously I'm not saying any of this is the case with Tia, but my opinion would be that bullying wouldn't be my first conclusion as to why she wasn't attending school regularly.

I agree with all the points you have made.

Tia also had two young brothers so perhaps NS wanted Tia to be around to help care for them.