UT -Susan Powell, 28, West Valley City, 6 Dec 2009 - #5

[passionflower]

IMO, I sincerely hope LE interviews everyone that has been around Josh and asks important questions!
This could be so important in circumstantial information to Susan's case.
Can't wait til snow melts!
Better chance of finding her!

 

[TGIRecovered]

Being with Josh's father is not a good thing for those children. The man obviously has a history of controling his adult children to the point that they abandon their spouses and move back in with him. I shudder to think what manipulation he must have used in order to get rid of his wife; the mother of his children, yet the kids stayed with him...even into adulthood!

Josh's sister seems to be the only member of that family who isn't willing and eager to help encourage Josh to hinder the search for Susan with his refusal to help LE.

I wish I had access to some of the subscritpion search engines so I could learn more of Josh's father's history. Unless he is so intimidating that no one has bothered to make official reports, there has to be some history of abusive behavior.

If those poor boys get stuck living with Josh's father or any of the siblings who are still under his control, I fear he will infect them with his woman-hating, manipulative/controlling/ emotionally abusive lifestyle. It is a generational curse!

 

[TGIRecovered]

OKand3Js - I think that the chances are ziltch that JP or any of his relatives are hunkered down somewhere reading posts on the internet about the case by a bunch of people who are 100% convinced of his guilt. I honestly think that JP is just happy for each day he's still walking around a free man.

True enough...no need, when you have an attorney to see to that kind of detail.

is right about all accurate info being good, whether it benefits prosecution or defense. We are, after all, in search of truth. The problem lies in posting info which would hinder further investigation, if a guilty party were to find out where the info is coming from.

Unfortunately, the guilty party would have confessed by now, if truth were at all important to him. Our problem lies in being careful not to disclose the identity of someone who has access to the truth, since there are those who would chose to warn the murderer, rather than rejoice in being one step closer to the murderer being brought to justice.

Welcome to the board, Dwight! Your posts provide a good overview of the "defense". It is important to remember where they are coming from, whether we agree or not. You seem to be good at seeing things from that side of the table. (Not that there is anything wrong with that.) Have you any experience in this area, or do you just enjoy a healthy debate?

 

[Bartleby]

Hoping the tests will be back soon to indicate what was being cleaned up. This is exactly the scenario that has me worried. An argument, Susan with keys in hand ready to leave and threatening to take the boys followed by a violent escalation. I think he probably strangled her.

LE said 4-8 weeks, we're at the 5 week mark or thereabouts now.

They way I see things proceeding:

Forensics come back with enough data to name Josh as a suspect, not merely a person of interest. He is recalled to UT (arrested?) and asked formally to be more cooperative with LE regarding:

1) where he went on his "camping trip" (i.e. go there with LE and demonstrate what he did)
2) where he went in the rental vehicle (i.e. go there with LE and demonstrate what he did and why)

OR Forensics provide enough data to convict Josh in absense of a body, and he cooperates as part of a plea bargain.

Either way I think the Forensics results will be the next big step, unless someone finds Susan's body, but that really is finding a needle in a haystack, and a cold snow-covered haystack which gets a fresh layer of snow every couple of days.


When the Forensics are ready, it won't matter a jot where Josh is, WA or UT. I do worry about what will happen to the boys, and who the best family unit is to foster them. I don't think it's Josh's father, and Susan's parents might be willing but I'm not sure Grandparents make the best parents. If I had the choice I'd leave them with Josh's sister and brother-in-law, same generation as Josh, still in UT, and hopefully well know to the boys. Whatever happens it won't be great for the boys.

If Susan returns home alive and find it sold, she knocks on a neighbour's door, they tell her Josh is at his father's house, and the neighbours take her in. I know that Kiirsi and John Hellewell would look after her at a stroke and put her up pretty much forever, or until she was able to get back on her own feet. That'd require divorce from Josh and a restraining order to prevent him comign within 100 miles of her, and then the question is, could she have her boys back?

 

[OK5]

Reminder - both sets of the boys grandparents live in Washington, right? Someone please correct me if I'm wrong about that. But grandparents are usually pretty good about giving love and support to their grandchildren. So from the boys' welfare and future happiness perspective, staying in Utah may actually not be as good of a choice, however bad it makes Josh look. Probably some may disagree, but that's okay with me.

Just wanted to clarify that Susan's parents live in WA and Josh's dad lives in WA, but Josh's mother lives with his sister that still lives in UT. So his mother and sister are the only ones who are away from Steven Powell. The rest of Josh's siblings still live with daddy.

 

[terminatrixator]

I've never seen anyone withhold news from those that disagree. People disagree all the time on here and always get along.....or at least be fair. They don't withhold news out of fear of it being read ......I didn't think. I've never seen this done before.

I'm not defending Josh, I feel it's horrible he's moving, I hope he gets arrested and the children end up in safe environment with Susan's family, but until then, {{{OKand3Js}}}} I really feel for the situation you are in. It's a very tough one, I do not believe you wanted to withhold because people disagreed, I believe your fears are legitimate and just wanted to say I empathize.

The fears can range from the POI or suspect will figure out who they are and turn on them, family members will find out and then you have an entire family, not just the poi angry with you.

There are also fears of letting something be known that perhaps LE doesn't want out there, so they can have an ironclad investigation and the DA can get a conviction. Leaks are not good, when you are trying to build a case.

You would be surprised how many POI's, LE, DA, defense attorneys, family & friends of the POI, and Victim's families & friends read Websleuths.

Websleuth and the sleuthers have been so beneficial to so many cases and I feel blessed to be part of such a wonderful group, but sometimes people have to realize these are not just random named victims with facts thrown in, there are real people behind these cases, that have to LIVE IT every day, on BOTH sides of the fence, the POI's, suspects & murderer and the victims' family.

Since there are minor children involved, criticizing those that help in the move of Josh, is somewhat futile, but it's understandable.

This is such a heart-wrenching case but unless you have to deal with a case on a personal level, it's something you don't have to agree with, but people will do what they have to do if they want to keep in contact with the children or POI, in hopes that perhaps the person will confide in you or until there is some sort of resolution.

It really does drain people that are close to a case, whether or not you know the victim, the perpetrator or both.

I really pray Justice for Susan, her children, family & friends and a resolution for Josh's family & friends.

 

[Patty G]

It is always best to "err on the side of caution" when posting and revealing connections to players in cases.

 

[Recovering-Lurker]

Tricia and I talked and I think I am going to sleep on it because I am honestly exhausted. I have not been sleeping well with all this crazy stuff going on and I am a mom of three with the youngest being only 3 months old, so that is hard work also. I will come back tomorrow after hopefully a good nights rest (even though it is already midnight and who knows when the baby will wake up) and I hope I can figure out what to say or not say then. I appreciate you being understanding. This is a tough position to be in.

I'm really not trying to be mean, so please don't take what I'm going to say that way. You are afraid to post your observations from helping Josh move, because someone might figure out who you are and know that you don't really support Josh, but you still want him to think you support him. Well, you've already said you 1) helped him pack up stuff 2) don't support him and 3) posted the number of kids you have including the age of the youngest child... if someone close to Josh wanted to figure out who you are, I'm sure they could by this alone.

I think it's great that you are being supportive of Josh in an attempt to get more information. I also think that it would be wonderful if you could share your observations with all WSers. JMO.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

I'm really not trying to be mean, so please don't take what I'm going to say that way. You are afraid to post your observations from helping Josh move, because someone might figure out who you are and know that you don't really support Josh, but you still want him to think you support him. Well, you've already said you 1) helped him pack up stuff 2) don't support him and 3) posted the number of kids you have including the age of the youngest child... if someone close to Josh wanted to figure out who you are, I'm sure they could by this alone.

I think it's great that you are being supportive of Josh in an attempt to get more information. I also think that it would be wonderful if you could share your observations with all WSers. JMO.

I agree, if they are watching then they know who you are already. Might as well post away.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

I still think pig latin would throw them for a loop.

 

[lemonmoussetart]

Kiki, it does seem odd, such as like someone mentioned previously, if she did just disappear and he had nothing to do with it, how would she be able to find him if she was able to escape and return - there's no concern from JP regarding that. On the other hand, he is moving right into the "backyard" of SP's parents. If he had actually murdered Susan, it would definitely seem abnormal to quickly move right up to nearby where her parents (the Coxes) live. And finally, whether JP is responsible or not, there has been some kind of tramatic event resulting in his wife's disappearance, and he is going to get the most support from his parents - and as long as there is no evidence, you can bet that the parents are going to give JP every benefit of the doubt possible. As long as he doesn't confess guilt to his parents, his parents really have an obligation to support him. Even if he winds up confessing to the police, his parents will still love him unconditionally - hey where else do you get love like that except from your parents?

This comes from the heart: If MY sister, mother, father were in the same position as JP. If ANY family member that I was close enough to to ask..And they appeared to be as guilty as JP, I would be compelled to look them straight in the eye, and fire away with the questions. I think I would know if they were guilty or not before that conversation was over unless they just refused to speak about it. Should they do that I would have to ask, why can't you talk about it with me? Honestly I think unconditional love ends with murder, or rape. Would you still support them? Maybe, depends on who, what, where, how.

 

[Fairy1]

This comes from the heart: If MY sister, mother, father were in the same position as JP. If ANY family member that I was close enough to to ask..And they appeared to be as guilty as JP, I would be compelled to look them straight in the eye, and fire away with the questions. I think I would know if they were guilty or not before that conversation was over unless they just refused to speak about it. Should they do that I would have to ask, why can't you talk about it with me? Honestly I think unconditional love ends with murder, or rape. Would you still support them? Maybe, depends on who, what, where, how.

I feel this way too. But it's possible those closest to JP really don't want to know the answer.

I would love to know if JP really and truly believes that all those good people who helped him yesterday actually think he's innocent. Surely he must realize that, with or without judgment, most people believe in their hearts that he murdered Susan. Or is he so dillusional as to think he has fooled everyone with his ridiculous story?

 

[Dr.Fessel]

I agree, and unconditional love has nothing to do with approving of bad behaviors or allowing them or enabling them.

 

[eyes4crime]

I feel this way too. But it's possible those closest to JP really don't want to know the answer.

I would love to know if JP really and truly believes that all those good people who helped him yesterday actually think he's innocent. Surely he must realize that, with or without judgment, most people believe in their hearts that he murdered Susan. Or is he so dillusional as to think he has fooled everyone with his ridiculous story?

No way do I think Josh is delusional! He's narcissistic and feels he did no wrong, probably wondering why everyone 'thinks' they have evidence. He has a hard time pretending to feel bad!

His friends aren't 'hiding' him or enabling another murder - why are people thinking they are?

 

[kiki the parrot]

Though many volunteers seemed to believe that Powell had to move due to his current economic situation, his brother-in-law Kirk Graves said as far as he knows, they're up to date on their house payments. And there are a good number of people willing to help and provide a place for him to stay in Utah.

"We would much rather him be here for a couple of reasons," Graves told the Deseret News. "Here, he might be a help with the investigation..."

Yathink... (cont'd at link)

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705357318/Josh-Powell-packs-up-West-Valley-City-home.html

arrot:

 

[kiki the parrot]

Does anybody know what the coverage of this case is getting up in WA? I know down here in Utah it's still on the local news, last night they were showing the moving vans etc. I'm just wondering if the people up in WA are seeing everything we are? What kind of reputation does the Powell family have up there? I'm hoping there are a lot of supporters to Susan's family there, IMO those 2 boys need saving and need to be with Susans family, doesn't Susan have siblings? If she'd been working before on some type of will, did she have it listed who she wished to raise her babies?

I suppose it's possible there might be a little local coverage in Puyallup but none at all afaik in the rest of the state of WA. That's the whole point I'm sure.

This comes from the heart: If MY sister, mother, father were in the same position as JP. If ANY family member that I was close enough to to ask..And they appeared to be as guilty as JP, I would be compelled to look them straight in the eye, and fire away with the questions. I think I would know if they were guilty or not before that conversation was over unless they just refused to speak about it. Should they do that I would have to ask, why can't you talk about it with me? Honestly I think unconditional love ends with murder, or rape. Would you still support them? Maybe, depends on who, what, where, how.

Gotta draw a line here between "love," which holds people accountable... and approval. It isn't "loving" to enable his lack of cooperation and would be more "loving" IMO to set boundaries, refuse to participate in his eluding and stonewalling LE, and insist instead that their son cooperate w LE. JMO

arrot:

 

[Dr.Fessel]

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/...Josh-Powell-pack-for-move-from-Utah.html?pg=2


Kiirsi Hellewell said the next step will be a fundraiser but said she didn't know what it would be or where the funds would go.


I wonder what the funds will be for, to help him since he doesn't have a job?

 

[kiki the parrot]

I am a mother of four children, and have personally (w no professional movers) packed up an entire 3br house w/out relying on neighbors, churchmembers or anybody else for anything (but one person for the heaviest pieces) on numerous occasions, including once when I had to flee an abusive marriage and feared the move could be discovered. If it weren't so despicable it would be almost amusing to me that JP requires so much assistance... is he still sniveling? I mean, sniffling? Someone, please get Joshy a tissue... and more lotion for his poor hands...

arrot:

 

[Blondie in Spokane]

I am in Spokane, Wa., on the eastern side of the state. There has been very little coverage of this story locally. One article in the local paper today but little on the news...but then we are 300 miles or so from Puyallup so I wouldn't really expect too much coverage over here.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

I am a mother of four children, and have personally (w no professional movers) packed up an entire 3br house w/out relying on neighbors, churchmembers or anybody else for anything (but one person for the heaviest pieces) on numerous occasions, including once when I had to flee an abusive marriage and feared the move could be discovered. If it weren't so despicable it would be almost amusing to me that JP requires so much assistance... is he still sniveling? I mean, sniffling? Someone, please get Joshy a tissue... and more lotion for his poor hands...

arrot:

20 people helped him move. This makes me think it was church sanctioned. Was the Bishop there?