VA - Amy Bradley, 23, Petersburg, 24 March 1998 - #3

[Hiandmighty]

I think because of case like Amy's and the activism by their families, ships have installed cameras that merely watch the balconies from the bridge of the ship. (Some kind of cruise act I believe in 2010).. If I have time today, ill go through my photos and find a pic of the cameras. They don't film on individual balconies (they would catch plenty of people having sex) but if someone was climbing or falling, they could go back and review it. This, of course, makes it reactive and not proactive-- doesn't help anyone who did fall over; only gives the family an answer about what happened.

There are problems with ships and safety-- I won't ever deny that. Employees come from (generally speaking) third world countries, so there are no background checks before they become employed by the cruise ship industry. Ships are little cities and while people get "vacation mentality" and behave differently than if they were out partying at home, cruisers need to remain cognizant that no one needed a background check to get on the ship.

 

[Hiandmighty]

http://www.cruisejunkie.com/Overboard.html

Number missing in past 5 years (2009 - 2013) = 113 (average = 22.6 per year)


Below is a comprehensive list of known cases of persons falling or jumping overboard since 1995. All accounts (unless indicated) were reported in a media source or (in several cases) reported in private correspondence.

 

[dotr]

Lengthy article from 2005, fwiw..



By Clint Van Zandt MSNBC analyst & former FBI profiler
updated 8/15/2005

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/8961958/n...ruise-ship-passengers-disappear/#.VCcH8RZabk9

"So what’s going on? Where are these people? Are there serial killers working on the lesser-priced cruise lines, a job that puts them in a “target rich environment” so to speak? The answer is we just don’t know. Hundreds of thousands of people are reported missing every year from cities across the United States, most of whom are subsequently found, and a cruise ship is really a small city at sea, only you really don’t know your next door neighbors in most cases. Add to this the life-style that is found aboard these party boat type of cruises, with some five or seven day trips that wander around in the Caribbean going for under $500, and you get what you pay for; your fellow passengers are there for the fun, the food, the booze, and all the other activities so well advertised by this less expensive end of the cruise ship industry. Finally some suggest that crew members on these less expensive cruises may believe that it is always open season on passengers, with little to no accountability for their actions towards vulnerable guests other than to be sent home from the next port – hardly a deterrent to bad behavior, or worse.

If a person is immediately reported as missing from a ship at sea, the captain can turn the ship around and look for the man or woman believed overboard. The challenge is that you are looking around in a big, dark ocean, and a lone body without a life jacket makes a very small target to find, especially at night, in high seas, or after any length of time has passed. Some cruise lines may suggest that a missing passenger must be a suicide victim, something that may serve the image of the cruise line, but is an explanation that most families will not accept to explain why the missing person was there one minute, and gone the next.

Part of the challenge in investigating such onboard mysterious disappearances and/or suspected homicides is that the ship itself is a moving crime scene, one that if not immediately declared a crime scene will be cleaned up (with potential forensic evidence lost forever) by the ship’s maintenance staff. And a further complication is that the potential witnesses, all 1,000 to 3,000 of them, may get off at the next port, necessitating a fugitive hunt-like investigation to track them down, sometimes all over the world for purposes of interview"

 

[88keys]

I have avoided this thread for a quite a while out of confusion and frustration. I feel that we have all become so dead-set on the theory that Amy was abducted and sold into slavery that we refuse to even entertain any other possibilities. I'm not saying that the Bradleys or the VI or anyone else is lying- I fully believe that THEY fully believe she was abducted.

But what if those theories are wrong?

Maybe we need to go back to the beginning and re-think things.

We know that, when Amy disappeared, the ship was still in the water and was not docked at one of the islands. (Right?) And by the time the ship did dock and passengers disembarked, Amy was missing. Therefore, whatever happened to her happened on the ship.

To me, the most reasonable theories are:

A) She fell overboard- I used to not even consider this, but based on the last time she was seen and the time frame of her disappearance, it makes sense.

B) She met up with someone unsavory (the band members?) early in the morning, and they assaulted her, maybe accidentally killed her. They either threw her overboard or hid her body and disposed of it later.

I do not believe that she has been trafficked and moved around the world for 15 years for some super-secret purpose that we are not allowed to know about. I do not believe there have been sightings of her after 2005. I even question some of the eye-witness sightings, as eye-witness sightings are notoriously unreliable. Also, most of them didn't know it was Amy until after they got back to the States and heard about her case.

There is also a part of me which thinks she may have been sold into slavery and ended up accepting her lot and could still be living her life today with no desire to return to her family. Which may be the saddest outcome of all.

Anyway, I'm not sure why I'm posting all this; just felt the need to get it off my chest. I hope I haven't stepped on anyone's toes.

The fantastical stories about how she has been sold into white slavery or as a drug mule are so unbelievable... And add to the fact that people have knowingly scammed her family out of money for exchange of "sightings" and photoshopped photos... And at age 40 she is still so golden to her "abductors" that people had to stop posting on the Internet because the "handlers" were reading websleuths and it became dangerous.
Give me a break.

I'm glad someone finally had the guts to say this.

 

[marie-chantal]

MOO...I also struggle to believe the theory of all these years as some sort of mule/slave. It is just too fantastical and far-fetched to me.

There were a couple of days that passed before the ship was properly searched. She could have been killed on the ship, her body could have been hidden somewhere until after they left Curacao, and then dumped when the ship sailed to its next stop.

But that's just my opinion only.

 

[Hiandmighty]

I suspect that the Bradleys understand (though may not accept) she likely died. But, like any parent, they feel a strong need to investigate any possibility or sightings. This has led them to pay people who then scammed them. Her dad has been quoted as saying its a gamble each time and with the mercenary who supposedly was going to go get her, they lost because he scammed like 150k between the Bradleys and the foundation.

I believe I also read a PI they hired also scammed them?

So now you have this vicious cycle/catch 22 where this family is desperate and has made it known they will pay for information/ help and so then you have people who lead them on for various nefarious reasons. And the family then feels they have to follow up on these "leads" and nothing ever comes from them...

It is truly a sad sad case. I can't imagine how horrifying it is to see your daughter and then an hour later she disappeared off the face of the earth. How confusing and terrifying that must feel like....

 

[Hiandmighty]

I agree. I'm not discounting the theory that something bad happened to her on the ship. It's possible. If something did happen on board, the perp likely disposed of her body (a la George Smith) by throwing her overboard somewhere before Curaco. But, that would have all had to have happened in the space of 30-45 minutes from when he dad saw her at 5:15-5:30 am ish to when she was gone around 6:00 am ish. (If you read books like "cruise confidential" I don't think employees of the ships have much down time at all. If anything, they are worked to death, so I think it would be really hard for a ship employee to be missing/unaccounted for for any length of time)...

ETA: I've been trying to find some photos of some Texas fishermen who capsized in the gulf... One had a waterproof camera with him so he took some photos of them (like 6 or 7 of them) while they were awaiting rescue (coast guard knew where they were) because it really gives you scale of how tiny people look in the water. In one photo, even though you know there are there AND they are holding on to giant red bouys, you still can barely make them out.

 

[dotr]

The missing pictures of Amy taken by cruise photographer was a curious thing, though..

 

[Hiandmighty]

I'm reading up more about that part, but let me say this about the "overly attentive waiters"....

(How can I say this without insulting an entire group of people?.. My observations: )

I have had experiences with the waiters on a cruise ship being "overly attentive" in the dining room; [modsnip] I have been told that in certain parts of Asia, not having a concept of personal space is part of the culture. I have had waiters massage my neck/back and give me hugs and massage my husband too-- all at the same time. Lol They can be overly attentive and inside your personal boundaries. It's part of their nature.

So it doesn't strike me as odd that Amy's mother said the waiters were overly attentive to her. This can be offensive/put you out if you are a more reserved person who isn't touchy feely. I have read that some people have said the waiter and the band member were "creepy" but creepy is a judgement made after the fact...

I think if there was this much inappropriate behavior that was to the point of being concerning, one of her family members would have spoken up. I was once at a function with a friend who went to the bathroom; someone in the row in front of us reached back and took a valuable program that my friend paid for. I immediately yelled for the woman to "give it back" and that if she touched another thing that belonged to my friend, I would "chop her hands off." Lol. I have no idea where that came from, but that was my instantaneous reaction in the moment to something inappropriate.

The concepts that these things were "odd" or "creepy" were made after Amy disappeared but weren't anything odd enough at the time for anyone to speak up about it. ("Creepy waiter" "creepy band guy")

Please correct me if I am wrong about any known facts. This is just another perspective I thought about today and thought it was an interesting point to make.

 

[Hiandmighty]

Was this their first cruise? Just curious. Does anyone know?

 

[dotr]

Was this their first cruise? Just curious. Does anyone know?

No idea, just remember that it was a trip that was won through Mr Bradley's workplace.

 

[88keys]

I agree. I'm not discounting the theory that something bad happened to her on the ship. It's possible. If something did happen on board, the perp likely disposed of her body (a la George Smith) by throwing her overboard somewhere before Curaco. But, that would have all had to have happened in the space of 30-45 minutes from when he dad saw her at 5:15-5:30 am ish to when she was gone around 6:00 am ish.

Not necessarily. Her parents noticed her gone pretty quickly, but she could have already been down in the bowels of the ship, or in some hidden room or something. They realized she was missing around 6, but that doesn't mean whatever happened to her had necessarily happened yet.

I also doubt the cruise line people saying that they searched every nook and cranny of the ship and couldn't find her. That would take hours, and there are so many places she could hide or be hidden. I do feel like, no matter what happened, the cruise line was (and still is) in major CYA mode.

 

[Hiandmighty]

IMO :moo: I agree the cruise ships are going to be in "protection of themselves" mode. The George Smith case, IMO, blatantly illustrated the lack of cooperation by the company.

OTOH, there is no evidence of a crime with Amy.

As for the photos, the photos are placed on little "photo shelves" along a wall and anyone can touch/fool with/buy them/throw them away. I haven't always been able to find ours. Any kid/employee/passenger could have messed with them or thrown them away. The mom requested they be reprinted, which the employee agreed to do and then Amy was gone the next day. Maybe the photos weren't printed originally? Maybe it was a glitch? Maybe an obsessed person took them all?

Was Amy the only passenger whose photos were missing?

That is what I'm curious to know and will never find out. If hers were the only photos (out of all the passengers) that were missing and all of hers were missing, then yes that is weird. Amy's alone or with the family photos or both? Does anyone know?

I don't claim to have any answers; I have a lot of thoughts on this so I'm writing them all out.

It seems to me the family didn't want to even consider she could have gone over the balcony, so they were/are trying to find and fit pieces that fit an abduction scenario. I agree it would be stunning to believe your loved and happy daughter fell off a balcony... Wouldn't it be an awful waste of a life for that to have happened? I mean, that was it? She was doing well and living her life and she fell off a balcony?!!?? I can see how it woud be hard for her parents to believe or accept that could have happened to Amy.

 

[Murkywaters]

IMO :moo: I agree the cruise ships are going to be in "protection of themselves" mode. OTOH, there is no evidence of a crime.

As for the photos, the photos are placed on little "photo shelves" along a wall and anyone can touch/fool with/buy them/throw them away. I haven't always been able to find ours. Any kid/employee/passenger could have messed with them or thrown them away. The mom requested they be reprinted, which the employee agreed to do and then Amy was gone the next day. Maybe the photos weren't printed? Maybe it was a glitch? Maybe an obsessed person took them all?

We're Amy's the only passenger whose photos were missing?

That is what I'm curious to know and will never find out. If hers were the only photos of all the passengers whose photos were missing and all of hers were missing, then yes that is weird. Amy's alone or with the family photos or both? Does anyone know?

I don't claim to have any answers; I have a lot of thoughts on this so I'm writing them all out.

It seems to me the family didn't want to even consider she could have gone over the balcony, so they were/are trying to find and fit pieces that fit an abduction scenario. I agree it would be stunning to believe your loved and happy daughter fell off a balcony... Wouldn't it be an awful waste of a life for that to have happened? I mean, that was it? She was doing well and living her life and she fell off a balcony?!!?? I can see how it woud be hard for her parents to believe or accept that could have happened to Amy.

FBI Investigators discovered the cruises photo service that snaps and sells photos of all the passengers somehow "lost" every single photograph of Amy from the cruises database 9 to 10 hours before her disappearance. Out of thousands of people on board the ship Amy's pictures were the only ones missing. Amy's kidnapping was a carefully planned organized group effort, including several people on the ship. There's a reason the FBI took up the case. The FBI and Amy's family has already pursued the overboard angle. It amounted to nothing and it was clearly not the angle the investigation needed to take.

''We've pursued every angle, from whether there was foul play, a suicide or an accident, and we have basically not gotten anywhere," said James K. Weber, special agent in charge of the office in San Juan, Puerto Rico.

One thing interesting to note Amy was very apprehensive about the cruise, She was unsure of the ''big boat'' scenario and wouldn't even go near the rails for the first few days of the cruise. I also remember reading she didn't like getting in the ocean when on the islands either.

 

[trenchmouth]

If she fell overboard , which I disagree with, it didn't happen in her room. She was seen getting off elevator with dirtball loser AD "Yellow" and was given a dark liquid after 6 am the morning she disappeared.

 

[88keys]

Maybe she fell off of the upper deck.

 

[Hiandmighty]

I've been thinking about this too since yesterday:

If the family believes she is still alive, then they have a reason to want to keep the narrative away from "maybe she died on 24 march 1998". If people start believing she died nearly 17 years ago, they will stop looking for her.

The family wouldn't want people to stop looking for her if they think she is still alive.

The only narratives that keep Amy alive after all these years is:

1) she left the ship on her own accord for whatever her own reasons were and she has never contacted her family again

OR

2) she was taken off the ship by no desire of her own and she had been held against her will by handlers for nearly 17 years and she has been physically unable to contact her family ever since.

I can see how her family would be very against any discourse where people start talking about ways she likely died on 24 march 1998.

 

[neesaki]

Maybe I'll complete my thoughts and read along.

I think the problem with people discounting the "fall into the sea" theory is that I think they assume she would have gently fallen in or like it would be as if someone jumped into a pool.

Those ships are high. I don't know what level she was on but I'm guessing 8-11. Depending on the angle she could have fallen in (if she were alive) is that she could have broken her neck or sustained a head injury upon meeting the ocean. She could have slipped (been sucked) under the ship. She would have definitely gone underwater for a period of time. If she was conscious when she went in, maybe she would have had a chance.

But if she was unconscious from a crime or inebriation or if she blacked out and fell, etc... Or if she got sucked under the ship.... Any number of things could have happened that woud have caused her to drown immediately.

Searching the water for a day means nothing to me. If she sunk, if she was carried in currents, if she was eaten by a shark (and I have seen plenty of sharks while on a cruise, both at sea and at the dock) they wouldn't find anything. If she sunk, unless they did days/weeks of underwater sonar searches, they wouldn't find a body. Even if they did underwater sonar searched, they wouldn't have been guaranteed to find a body.

It is incredibly hard to find overboard people, even when they are holding on to giant red bouys. It's like trying to finds needle in a haystack. Whenever I go boating offshore, we wear neon shirts, although we understand that in the vastness of water, it's probably not really going to help anyone spot us.

Getting back to the ditch bag: ours has a EPIRB (personal locator), beanie weenies, spam, water, electrolytes. Once you are in the water, every second counts for survival. Your body loses temperature in the water significantly quicker than on land. Once you are overboard, it's survival time (assuming you are in o.k. Enough condition to get to the survival part).... And larger body mass, even overweight status helps in these kinds of situations... Even things such as when you last ate and had water, etc.

Unfortunately, Amy is not the only American who has gone missing on a cruise ship never to be seen again. With millions of people cruising these days, she is part of a small but growing number of people this has happened to.


It's terribly terribly sad. My heart aches for her family and the distress they have continuously been in.

Just to be clear, when do you think Amy fell overboard? Before or after she was seen with Yellow handing her a dark colored beverage? IIRC, by that time the ship was already in the process of docking. Whether anyone believes the sightings to be verified or not verified, there has been absolutely no witnesses or evidence that she fell overboard. So in he end, the sightings according to witnesses who reported them is all we have to go on. That, and the photos. :moo:

 

[88keys]

Was the coffee sighting ever verified by law enforcement or MSM? Because the only person I have ever heard it from is the "VI."

 

[dotr]

The ultimate verification of any kind in this case, would imo, be if either Amy's body was located, or Amy turned up alive in the flesh!