VA - Couple & two teens found murdered, Farmville, 15 Sept 2009 #1

[gxm]

Many people have discounted the satanic involvement of individuals associated with this case as nothing more than childish fantasizing and even harmless make-pretend.

I don't intend to argue that case in detail on this thread, only state my personal belief that it's far, far from that. It's real and it's extremely dangerous. These kids were probably involved in some really nasty areas of the dark side, imo.

I've also been wondering from the start if the suspect planned these murders in advance and/or had help along the way in carrying them out. We shouldn't expect any answers from him, however. He's not talking to authorities and will most probably remain silent for the duration.

With all due respect, Joe, it was Sam's dark side, not a supernatural one, that erupted in a bloody rampage. Yes, his immersion in a violent sub-culture gave him the wherewithal but the evil came from Sam. Blaming a mythical force, IMO, diverts the responsibility from the killer.

I think Sam went to Virginia with every hope of spending time with a pretty young girl who appeared to be crazy about him. The rejection and failure that he met with sent him on a homicidal rampage. Could some of his "friends" have egged him on? It's a possibility but as yet there's no evidence to back it up. By all appearances the SKR crew, and even the killer's own family, seems to have cooperated with LE.

 

[majikposhun]

This crime has enveloped my curiosity about this dark underbelly of our society. I have read some articles and have found something that seems to liken to this case: http://www.examiner.com/x-2684-Law-Enforcement-Examiner~y2009m4d14-Satanic-or-ritualistic-crime-and-murder

(respectfully snipped from the link above)
According to Ed Briggs, crime reporter for the Richmond Times-Dispatch , Satanic cults seduce teenagers and young adults with sex and drugs and the promise of power over others. Also, involvement in this religion is the ultimate in rebellion against parental control, especially if the parents are religious Christians, Jews, Muslims, or part of any mainstream religious organization including Religious Satanism which is recognized by the federal government as a legitimate religion deserving of all privileges enjoyed by Christian, Jewish, Muslim, etc. churches and temples.

As with their rebellion against parents and parental control, Satanic cult members thrive on their rebellious behavior against society in general. The cultist's perfidy is a source of pleasure for him or her, especially the teenager who may have been forced to attend mainline church services each week..

Then, according to Briggs, an award-winning newsman, there are times when ritualistic abuse is used to break down a young person's resistance. The unwilling recruit may be repeatedly raped or sodomized or worse -- acts of bestiality are performed.

Read this article - it is very telling.

 

[JoeFromLB]

With all due respect, Joe, it was Sam's dark side, not a supernatural one, that erupted in a bloody rampage. Yes, his immersion in a violent sub-culture gave him the wherewithal but the evil came from Sam. Blaming a mythical force, IMO, diverts the responsibility from the killer.

I think Sam went to Virginia with every hope of spending time with a pretty young girl who appeared to be crazy about him. The rejection and failure that he met with sent him on a homicidal rampage. Could some of his "friends" have egged him on? It's a possibility but as yet there's no evidence to back it up. By all appearances the SKR crew, and even the killer's own family, seems to have cooperated with LE.

(respectfully bolded by me)

As far as Satan being merely a "mythical force", well, we'll just have to agree to disagree on that one. But I won't belabor the point, since the question of whether the devil exists is not evidentiary matter in a courtroom, and besides, religious/theological arguments are not really pertinent on a crime forum.

I'll continue to point out any connections the individuals may have had with occult practices, but only to provide a fuller picture of the circumstances surrounding the crime and the suspect. I think such details could possibly be relevant to motive and to the methods used in the commission of the crime.
A police officer has said (linked above in the thread) that satanic symbols were found at the scene.

There is also the consideration (and this is pure speculation here on my part) that an insanity defense could conceivably be presented at trial in which the suspect might claim he was under the possession of the devil at the time and could not remember what he had done. Stranger defenses have been attempted in courtrooms before.

I'm sure that if anyone else is involved, the police will do everything they can to discern that and bring the people involved to justice. At least I hope they would be looking into all the possible angles here.

 

[Gene]

With all due respect, Joe, it was Sam's dark side, not a supernatural one, that erupted in a bloody rampage. Yes, his immersion in a violent sub-culture gave him the wherewithal but the evil came from Sam. Blaming a mythical force, IMO, diverts the responsibility from the killer.

I think Sam went to Virginia with every hope of spending time with a pretty young girl who appeared to be crazy about him. The rejection and failure that he met with sent him on a homicidal rampage. Could some of his "friends" have egged him on? It's a possibility but as yet there's no evidence to back it up. By all appearances the SKR crew, and even the killer's own family, seems to have cooperated with LE.

I agree. I dont think he went to Virginia with the intent to kill anyone. If he just wanted to go a murder spree, he could have done it in California.

Look at what his sister said:

"They were really, really lovey-dovey," said Sarah McCroskey, who said her brother had saved money for months to pay for the trip. "I've never seen him that excited."

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/09/21/MN6719QAUS.DTL#ixzz0S8jLFtP2

Then he told the taxi driver that Emma received a text message from a guy and that created an argument between them. I can believe this. The text message developed jealousy, Sam got angry, Emma saw his negative side and began to lose interest, which infuriated Sam. The angrier Sam got, the more distant Emma became, until there was a frigid tension between them which Sam could no longer tolerate.

 

[longwoodgrad]

I'm not sure that they were lovey dovey is a good way to prove this wasn't planned from the start. If you read all the articles Sam is good at disguising his emotions (calm when the police showed up, neither the cab driver nor the tow truck driver suspected anything). Who is to say he didn't fake this lovey dovey stuff? That comment about the SFTW event and then the prophecy will be fulfilled or whatever it said sounds like it was a cult sacrifice or something. Not to say it was, it just seems like its a possibility.

 

[tapu]

I agree. I dont think he went to Virginia with the intent to kill anyone. If he just wanted to go a murder spree, he could have done it in California.

Look at what his sister said:

"They were really, really lovey-dovey," said Sarah McCroskey, who said her brother had saved money for months to pay for the trip. "I've never seen him that excited."

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/09/21/MN6719QAUS.DTL#ixzz0S8jLFtP2

Then he told the taxi driver that Emma received a text message from a guy and that created an argument between them. I can believe this. The text message developed jealousy, Sam got angry, Emma saw his negative side and began to lose interest, which infuriated Sam. The angrier Sam got, the more distant Emma became, until there was a frigid tension between them which Sam could no longer tolerate.

Yeah, I'm with you on this thinking. I could see Emma and Mel being all snarky and together on dissing Sam, which is a perfectly normal way for two teenage girls to act. Emma and Mel's "moods" make sense to me in the context: Emma was feeling more negative because her meet-up with Sam had failed; but Mel was upbeat because she had her close friend back in tight with her rather than with a male pursuit.

I'm thinking he killed Emma and Mel first, in either order, when they were ganging up on putting him down; then the mother came in and saw the horror and he killed her; the father showed up later as already suggested.

I think the speculation above about maybe the father being about to get Sam out of there is very plausible, too.

 

[majikposhun]

I'm not sure that they were lovey dovey is a good way to prove this wasn't planned from the start. If you read all the articles Sam is good at disguising his emotions (calm when the police showed up, neither the cab driver nor the tow truck driver suspected anything). Who is to say he didn't fake this lovey dovey stuff? That comment about the SFTW event and then the prophecy will be fulfilled or whatever it said sounds like it was a cult sacrifice or something. Not to say it was, it just seems like its a possibility.

I agree it was something Sam had premeditated about. My thoughts of his mind - he has this 16 year old who is clearly obsessed with the culture and is infatuated with a up and coming "rapper" and thinks he's so cool - and she basically falls in love with the idea of him - not really HIM (IMO) - he meets her at some show in CA (who knows what happened there) but they begin an online romance (at least from her end it was - I certainly don't remember seeing Sam all "in love" publicly at least. So he's got a naive 16 year old troubled chick who thinks he is the cooler than ice - which makes him feel great - then he finds out that her father is a priest - and perhaps he has thought in his mind that they could kill her father together - perhaps he suggested this to her as part of a sadistic ritual to become of member of their cult - this would be her sacrifice - to kill her priest father (or allow Sam to do it) - MAYBE Emma was the last to be killed after watching her father be killed. I have so many thoughts I just can't put them in an order that would make sense to the reader. But this is a possible scenario.

 

[tapu]

I see what you guys are saying, but I'm inclined to think it was not planned. This new article lends more credence to that scenario:

http://www2.timesdispatch.com/rtd/n...nfronted_girlfriend_over_text_message/295462/

 

[forgottencash]

If they had never met until the concert, I'll bet things soured at the concert. The guy was more like a "hanger-on" and she probably received a lot of attention at the concert, perhaps even from the performers or those at the top of the chain. I'd say that she likely really stood out in that crowd.

One can only hope that he waited until they fell asleep to attack - that would be a small blessing at this point.

 

[gxm]

If they had never met until the concert, I'll bet things soured at the concert. The guy was more like a "hanger-on" and she probably received a lot of attention at the concert, perhaps even from the performers or those at the top of the chain. I'd say that she likely really stood out in that crowd.

One can only hope that he waited until they fell asleep to attack - that would be a small blessing at this point.

That's been my suspicion, that she met someone in one of the bands. Suddenly the 20-year old who looks like he's a HS freshman isn't so cool anymore, as a matter of fact he's beginning to be a nuisance. I've also wondered if the girls and the mother were asleep when he killed them.

 

[ziggy]

From the SF Gate Article: "Sarah McCroskey said she saw an interview after her brother's arrest in which he told a television reporter, "Jesus told me to do it." But she said it wasn't a sign of a psychotic break.

"He's just a complete sarcastic -hole," she said. "That's just his sense of humor."

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/09/21/MN6719QAUS.DTL#ixzz0S9LgN7SK

Um, I think others in the family are a bit clueless. He's offering humor about murdering 4 people? OK. The comment just seems inappropriate. They keep trying to distance him from his little hobby but I think most of us know it probably had some influence, but to what extent we'll likely never know.

It will be interesting to see what if anything they find on his computers and also on Emma's cell phone.

I'm confused about when they met. Some articles say they met at a concert in Southern California a year earlier? That's pretty far away for a then 15 year old Emma. Then other reports say he saw her for the first time in person during the murderous visit. Which?

 

[majikposhun]

I'm confused about when they met. Some articles say they met at a concert in Southern California a year earlier? That's pretty far away for a then 15 year old Emma. Then other reports say he saw her for the first time in person during the murderous visit. Which?

Ziggy - I share the confusion on this - can anyone confirm this? So much misinformation out there.

 

[JoeFromLB]

I'm not sure that they were lovey dovey is a good way to prove this wasn't planned from the start. If you read all the articles Sam is good at disguising his emotions (calm when the police showed up, neither the cab driver nor the tow truck driver suspected anything). Who is to say he didn't fake this lovey dovey stuff? That comment about the SFTW event and then the prophecy will be fulfilled or whatever it said sounds like it was a cult sacrifice or something. Not to say it was, it just seems like its a possibility.

I missed that reference to a "prophecy" being fulfilled. Can you find that link?

I can't shake the feeling there's a lot more to these murders than meets the eye.

 

[Gene]

I am noticing that Sam usually tells the truth to people, or at least as much of it as possible. Sam:

told Gibson his girlfriend’s parents had taken them to a music show in Michigan on Sept. 12 and that they had a good time. But McCroskey said he later saw a text message on her phone from a man she had talked to at the music show. The message said he loved her and wanted to be with her. McCroskey said his girlfriend got angry when he confronted her about the message, accusing him of invading her privacy. He told Gibson he didn’t want to argue so he waited for her to go to sleep and left the house.

I think that everything is true until the bolded part above. I believe he waited for her to go to sleep and then he killed her.

http://www2.timesdispatch.com/rtd/n...nfronted_girlfriend_over_text_message/295462/

 

[ziggy]

Well I did read the thread in its entirety Gene but thank you for telling me how I SHOULD feel. Although I respect Atlantica's insight and OPINION, I have to respectfully disagree with some of it.

To not only allow but to take your CHILD to an event like this, is in fact condoning it in my OPINION. It to me its like having a hardcore drug addict as a child and supplying them with heroin with the excuse that, "If they didn't get it from me, they would get it somewhere."

This is not just some harmless docile punk band many kids phase in and out of. Although the lyrics themselves are despicable, its the lifestyle that is unhealthy. I have spent some time looking at concert pics and the blood and gore is prevalent.

http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/ind...dID=64907055&albumID=1438158&imageID=17044955

Take the above link picture for example. This is all part of the "concert" and that is real blood. They call it "Communion wounds" and they get it from self inflicted (usually head wounds) and smear the blood all over themselves and each other. I have also seen pics of them vomiting on each other. Their hereos are people like Charles Manson. They are very cult-like and the two girls considered themselves "Apostles". This goes beyond the realm of some crazy kid phase but instead is psychologically dangerous to young minds. I doubt any amount of therapy Em was receiving reversed what this sort of lifestyle was capable of doing.

That said, I do believe the parents did what they THOUGHT was right. In the end, it was their demise.

I completely agree and I've looked at that MySpace page with the pictures of that "deciple" with Mel and Emma. With the licking blood etc. it should be very evident that this goes beyond anything parents should quasi support.

 

[ohiogirl]

From the SF Gate Article: "Sarah McCroskey said she saw an interview after her brother's arrest in which he told a television reporter, "Jesus told me to do it." But she said it wasn't a sign of a psychotic break.

"He's just a complete sarcastic -hole," she said. "That's just his sense of humor."

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/09/21/MN6719QAUS.DTL#ixzz0S9LgN7SK

Um, I think others in the family are a bit clueless. He's offering humor about murdering 4 people? OK. The comment just seems inappropriate. They keep trying to distance him from his little hobby but I think most of us know it probably had some influence, but to what extent we'll likely never know.

It will be interesting to see what if anything they find on his computers and also on Emma's cell phone.

I'm confused about when they met. Some articles say they met at a concert in Southern California a year earlier? That's pretty far away for a then 15 year old Emma. Then other reports say he saw her for the first time in person during the murderous visit. Which?

I would have to think that his sister knows him fairly well. If she thinks he was being a smart *advertiser censored* saying Jesus made him to it, I will take her word for it until something proves her wrong.

 

[JoeFromLB]

From the SF Gate Article: "Sarah McCroskey said she saw an interview after her brother's arrest in which he told a television reporter, "Jesus told me to do it." But she said it wasn't a sign of a psychotic break.

"He's just a complete sarcastic -hole," she said. "That's just his sense of humor."

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/09/21/MN6719QAUS.DTL#ixzz0S9LgN7SK

Um, I think others in the family are a bit clueless. He's offering humor about murdering 4 people? OK. The comment just seems inappropriate. They keep trying to distance him from his little hobby but I think most of us know it probably had some influence, but to what extent we'll likely never know.

It will be interesting to see what if anything they find on his computers and also on Emma's cell phone.

I'm confused about when they met. Some articles say they met at a concert in Southern California a year earlier? That's pretty far away for a then 15 year old Emma. Then other reports say he saw her for the first time in person during the murderous visit. Which?

This is the only thing I've read about when they first met:

http://www.kron.com/News/ArticleVie...ether Murder Suspect and Victims/Default.aspx

Sarah McCroskey says her brother met Emma about a year ago, at a concert near San Diego. They were on the phone so much after that, Sarah had to buy herself a cell phone.

 

[JoeFromLB]

I would have to think that his sister knows him fairly well. If she thinks he was being a smart *advertiser censored* saying Jesus made him to it, I will take her word for it until something proves her wrong.

from Paul Carcagno's blog... He says that he acted in a horrorcore video with "SickTanic" and others and was told it was a Satanic ritual designed to invoke the blessing of a demon dog named "Sam". According to Calcagno, the participants talking "endlessly" about ritual murders.

DISCLAIMER: I don't know if it has yet been verified that Paul Calcagno is really the author of this blog. I suppose there is always the possibility that the story is fiction. I just don't know.

http://sammccrosky.blogspot.com/

EXCERPT:
Sicktanik and company often joked that if any of them were to go out and "pull a Manson", that they should "blame it on Jesus." They believed that Jesus and Lucifer were brothers and needed to be united. Sam McCrosky and the rest believed that when Jesus said "Love Thy Enemy," that the "Enemy" referred to was Satan himself. This belief is right out of Charles Manson's cult.

 

[gxm]

(respectfully snipped)

I'm confused about when they met. Some articles say they met at a concert in Southern California a year earlier? That's pretty far away for a then 15 year old Emma. Then other reports say he saw her for the first time in person during the murderous visit. Which?

I'm confused about that too. I wonder if Sam's sister has confused Emma with another girl. It's odd that the accounts aren't adding up.

 

[Gene]

I completely agree and I've looked at that MySpace page with the pictures of that "deciple" with Mel and Emma. With the licking blood etc. it should be very evident that this goes beyond anything parents should quasi support.

Again, I have seen no evidence that the parents supported this behavior. In fact from what I have read, it is just the opposite. They took their child into counseling over it.

Hodgson said Kelley, who specialized in violence against women but has taught classes in homicide, had been struggling since Emma got into horrorcore a couple of years ago. She and her husband separated about a year ago, and all three were in therapy "trying to move through this."

"Clearly, she was very upset with it and didn't necessarily approve of it," he said. "I mean short of locking them in their room or something and putting wires on the windows, I don't necessarily know what you do."

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5ir6PIEFJ6PHQFXW7IckUo784PJGQD9ATAP901

Emma's parents were seeking the help of professionsionals and trying to do their best for their daughter. They drove her to concerts in order to protect her.

None of us know what kind of decisions the parents were forced to make. Do any of us really have the right to pass judgement on them?