VA - Hannah Elizabeth Graham, 18, Charlottesville, 13 Sept 2014 - #11

[random989898]

I'm not really understanding all this seemingly blind support for a fugitive who may be responsible for the disappearance of a young girl who happens to be the reason we're all on here..and was definitely the last one we know of to see her before she disappeared..I just don't get it..

What do you see as blind support?

 

[LI-Mom]

This is the part of that article I find most interesting....

"On Friday, police conducted a search of Matthew’s vehicle, a 1998 burnt orange Chrysler coupe, which was parked in front of his apartment. While police were there, an interaction with residents of the complex led police to seek a search warrant for Matthew’s apartment while he was inside, Pleasants said."

An interaction with residents led to the warrant for the apartment? What kind of interaction could that have been?!? Intriguing.... I wonder who told them and what they told!

Maybe the neighbors* told them JM was moving out soon and the apartment was for rent? LE might be concerned the apartment would be cleaned and painted before the new tenants moved in.

*or landlady

 

[ksj3]

I'm pretty sure it is WG. I guess we need a local to tell us but they are only a few doors down from each other, not across the street.

I am a local. Rapture and Sal's sit on the same side of the "street," which is the pedestrian mall. The alcove WG is seen in is opposite Sal's, the other side of the "street," W of Rapture. They're in different blocks, Sal's (and therefore the alcove WG is seen in) is the 200 block. Rapture is the 300 block. Tuel's is also the 300 block, farther E of Rapture but within seconds. If bouncer were watching Hannah as she walked past Sal's, in front of Rapture, and on to Tuel's at the time both men were behind her, he'd have seen JM approach her as that approach happened between Sal's and Tuel's.

The question becomes is that what the bouncer is referring to in the article, or does he mean he saw her even later - minutes later, not seconds later - talking to a "large man," and does that "large man" fit JM's description?

 

[Claudia]

ha true , but I guess my 20 years of doing video editing I see things a little different.

the quality of the video is terrible and there is a lot of ghosting going on

But in the picture you can see his arm next to her, its almost a ghost image and you can see his hand barely in front of his gut.

No, YOU can see all that stuff. I still see blobs. Lol

 

[red99]

. Plus, he came forward and shared everything he knew before he ever showed up on video. From the start, they've basically said, we're not looking for the guy who admitted to "creepily" following her, let's move on. Still unsure of the whole bald head thing though.

When did he come forward? And, when was the video released? I've not been able to get a clear time-line on this.

Thanks in advance.

 

[cville_bob]

I'm pretty sure it is WG. I guess we need a local to tell us but they are only a few doors down from each other, not across the street.

I'm a local. Sal's and Rapture are on the same side of the street. WG is on the opposite side of the street walking from the direction that is farther from Rapture. He stops, and then HG comes into view. She passes, he falls in behind her, with both of them heading towards Rapture, but still on the opposite side of the street.

ergo Rapture bouncer != WG

 

[FruitTingles]

further more i think they know much more than what has been made public so far. I've followed tons of crime cases on the internet including at WS since 2001 or so, they are never this bold with out knowing more than what has been made public so far.

ITA! Couldn't have said it better! :seeya:

 

[Jmm124567]

If he was honestly concerned though, why follow her and not offer her water/a ride/a phone.

Something just seems off. About...everything here.

Because the black guy came up to her so he backed off

Is WG the bouncer of Rapture?

 

[PresleySyndrome]

I'm not really understanding all this seemingly blind support for a fugitive who may be responsible for the disappearance of a young girl who happens to be the reason we're all on here..and was definitely the last one we know of to see her before she disappeared..I just don't get it..

Personally, I'm not "blindly" trusting of LE. Secondly, guilty until proven innocent, right?

Obviously JM's actions seem suspicious, but so do "WG's" actions.

So many people are convicted in the eyes of society (and law) who are innocent...that we should be questioning.

If any of that made sense.

 

[random989898]

How many bar/restaurants are there in the downtown mall? Anybody know?

120 stores and 30 restaurants / bars. Longest pedestrian mall in the US (according to wikipedia!)

 

[Claudia]

Maybe the neighbors* told them JM was moving out soon and the apartment was for rent? LE might be concerned the apartment would be cleaned and painted before the new tenants moved in.

*or landlady

That would make sense!

 

[alum]

Regarding this article: http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...2b1a46-428c-11e4-9a15-137aa0153527_story.html
"Cecilia Rodi, owner of Rapture restaurant and bar, said that a bouncer working the doors that night saw Graham walking down the mall. Rodi said that the bouncer later saw Graham speaking with a large man; Matthew is 6-foot-2 and weighs 270 pounds."

It would depend on how much "later" he saw her. He would have been able to see her walk from Rapture to Tuel's, so "later" could be seconds. Or not. So the question is, how much later is later.

Rapture sits between Sal's and Tuel's. If he were watching, he'd have seen JM approach Hannah, and WG behind them.

But here is the scenario: remember JLM was walking west at first, so he must have past by Rapture, and could have been seen then. Who knows JLM might have been doing to arouse suspicion -- we know he high fives passers by. Bouncer hadn't seen HG yet, but certainly had time to get a little way down the street following behind JLM, but before HG came up the street going east. Then when bouncer sees JLM cross the street following HG, he knows the pair is worth watching.

 

[Evie Ivy Over]

I am a fairly new sleuth, so don't beat me up too badly for this thought,but here goes: Is it possible that LE is "pretending" to focus on Mr. Matthews so as to put the "real" POI at ease? Follow him? See where he goes, who he calls, what he does? I've probably been watching too many crime shows but this did cross my mind!

It's not just a matter of watching too many crime shows, it's been the way this investigation has rolled! Misinformation, missing information, giving people the impression they are trying to "trick" someone. Having said that, I've been thinking that since LE is into game playing, maybe they have some information that there was an accident being covered up by someone she knew...and LE is making strong accusations towards LM with the thoughts that there may be someone who can't live with their conscience if they continue covering up the truth--that they wouldn't be able to live a lie if someone else is being implicated in murder charges. This is just speculation on my part...just another theory as to why this case has become so confusing.

 

[MJPeony]

I'm not really understanding all this seemingly blind support for a fugitive who may be responsible for the disappearance of a young girl who happens to be the reason we're all on here..and was definitely the last one we know of to see her before she disappeared..I just don't get it..

Well, (imo...), there are some posters I think who like carrying the innocent-until-proven-guilty flag just b/c it's the right thing to do (no snark intended- that's a noble cause), but I think a lot of the others you imply are merely having a hard time believing this POI is capable of doing something so nefarious based on his perceived life. His friends, his church, his interests in helping others, his job, etc. The image that one gets- at least "looking in"- doesn't jive with what one would often expect of a fugitive possibly wanted for something heinous.

fwiw, I personally am struggling with how to view him. Something isn't right... I think this won't end well for him. But I also don't understand the juxtaposition of what it appears he stood for.

 

[teeandcee]

Leads me to think they wanted him to get away so they could then have things the way the are now - with him on the run as a fugitive...

Except the only reason he's a fugitive is due to his reckless driving. Until he committed that crime he could come and go as he pleased (legally). While I don't doubt he's under a tremendous amount of stress and pressure, by driving the way he did and fleeing he's got nobody to blame but himself.

 

[GeeButtersnaps]

What do you see as blind support?

Maybe blind support was the wrong phrase..I'm pretty damn tired lol just seeing a whole lot more benefit of the doubt given to this guy and I don't see and real reason behind it..I just feel like this has become a lot more about defending a guy who may be guilty or may not but certainly hasn't helped the cause than it is about finding Hannah which is all that matters to me no matter who is responsible..

 

[Jmm124567]

HG probably did not have a fake ID since she was denied entry into McGrady's

 

[msteach]

...and lest we forget, the FBI has been in on this from very early on. Most likely, they are orchestrating and advising Longo and CPD every step of the way. Nothing in this case is being done by accident. I'm feeling quite confident of that. From the "Oops...he got away" (I'm still convinced that they know exactly where he is and his every move and are just sitting back until they can swoop in and charge him -- but all the while keeping him squirming as much as they can) to the SSN to WG's accidental confusion. The only thing that I think they lose control of from time to time is Longo in PCs and interviews and the emotion, drama, preaching, and theatrics. Again, he's no fool, either. Not only is he LE -- he's also a JD -- which comes through to me every time I see him on TV. He always looks like he is delivering closing arguments.

They have been playing tactics with JM rightfrom the start. From pretending they couldn't see him on video and that the POI wasn't on the video to then getting aggressive and calling him out, to the overt surveillance and the supposed reckless driving charges. They are being very deliberate in what they do. Perhaps releasing the SSN is more mind games. Trying to make him mad, make him make a bigger mistake than speeding. Trying to let him know they won't stop at anything - including sharing his personal information with the world. As someone else said in an earlier thread, maybe they will use this breach of privacy as an excuse to freeze his bank accounts / cards to 'protect' him but really to cut off any source of income. I don't know. I just don't believe with all these 'tactics' and mind games going on that no one thought to proof the poster before sending it out.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

Did they say that? I can't recall. Hmmm.... is right!

"The first warrant was a search and seizure warrant for a vehicle which was executed shortly after midnight. When police arrived at the apartment building and seized the car, a person connected to the car was in his apartment with two others. Police identified those individuals, but the officer did not feel he had the grounds to detain the individuals, Longo said.

After seizing the car and taking it to an undisclosed location for the full search, investigators developed probable cause and sought approvals for the two other warrants. Police arrived back at the apartment shortly after 10 a.m. and the three individuals were no longer inside, Longo said."

http://abcnews.go.com/US/search-war...ginia-student-hannah-graham/story?id=25621541

 

[HFfan1]

Any way someone can do a timeline from today? There are like 3 threads just from today and I am having a hard time keeping up. Just the facts. Wanted poster? Sisters car? Social Security? etc. thank you in advance if someone does this! haha