VA - Hannah Elizabeth Graham, 18, Charlottesville, 13 Sept 2014 - #13

[CVilleSleuth]

Jamicat,

You're missing the point. Understanding JM's nature and behavior can help develop pattern of life analysis. It helps paint the picture of behavior pre-Saturday.

It's not allowed to ask co-workers to join you for drinks as you clock out? Those women are 21 years old, they are legal to drink and certainly adults. I don't see a thing wrong with that. A lot of the nurses I know met their future husbands that way.

 

[eddy]

Like I said, if they did he would be in jail. They have nothing.

Well, they don't have him, but when they do he will be in jail.[/I]

 

[ninij9]

I'd assume that she is familiar with the downtown mall (as in, she knew what it was, she had been there before), but unlikely that she knew it well...and strange that she'd go there at night. It's not a place UVA students go at night.

(Re: the question about the trolley - it doesn't run at night. Plus, would be strange for her to walk from McGrady's to the mall to find a bus back to the 14th St. area).

So back again to most likely lost and confused. But why oh why go for a drink with a stranger!!!!

 

[UVA2015]

It's not allowed to ask co-workers to join you for drinks as you clock out? Those women are 21 years old, they are legal to drink and certainly adults. I don't see a thing wrong with that. A lot of the nurses I know met their future husbands that way.

It made them uncomfortable. We aren't nurses, we are students.

 

[Le Singe]

People are being nit picky but she is a nursing major. So granted yes she is taking the general educations requirements and prerequisites right now and next year is when the actual nursing courses start. Same difference IMO.

how do you know she is a nursing student? Other who know ppl that know her have said she is not.

 

[Claudia]

I found this article interesting. I skipped some pages back there, so I apologize if this is a duplicate post.

http://wtvr.com/2014/09/24/dont-assume-there-is-irrefutable-dna-evidence-against-jesse-matthew/

“Probable cause is a pretty easy burden to meet,” said*CBS 6 Legal Analyst Todd Stone, “it doesn’t take much.

"The public*shouldn’t assume investigators have obtained irrefutable forensic DNA evidence to get Matthew convicted on this charge", according to Stone.

“There needs to be some evidence,” Stone said. “It’s not at the level needed to prove guilt, but it could be something as simple as some of her clothing being left at that apartment.”

Stone believes charging Matthew with this felony may be a tactical move to put Matthew behind bars and keep him there during this investigation.

 

[ProfessorPlum]

Asking someone out for a drink isn't creepy in and of itself. Could you be more specific? Did they feel an orderly was perhaps beneath them? Would it have been less creepy had he been z Doctor? Im not defending him. My gut tells me he is not innocent of her disappearance, but he said she said accounts of his character dont help. Sorry if I offend, but since this story broke hindsight can be 20/20 and people come forward and say all sorts of things.

As much as I hate to add to this friend-of-a-friend posting, my best friend/college roommate <modsnip> I've have suggested she place a tip to the police to perhaps add to a character profile. I think I've learned from this forum (and Longo) that even the littlest piece of information can make a difference. I'm praying for Hannah's safe return.

 

[Elley Mae]

He will be in jail as soon as he turns himself in or they find him. It was stated yesterday (sorry, it was a tweet, I don't have a link) where Chief Longo confirmed that the forensic evidence collected provided the probable cause to issue the newest warrant. JMO

bbm Probable- and the first round of dna has come back= negative. Let's see what happens if round 2 dna comes back negative. jmo idk

 

[Lava]

Nobody appears to be looking for any other suspects. They don't just "come forward" on their own.

It's not that I don't think they should suspect JM. I do - because he was the last person seen with her. But considering the lack of evidence up until a whole week after she disappeared I believe they should be considering other options as well.

Just jumping off your post.

For me, until they can get hard evidence (Video, clothing items etc) that JM and Hannah were alone together, privately..whether in his car or elsewhere, I have to consider other options as well. And by "until they get" I mean, until they get that and tell us. I fell like everything Hannah did that night was weird, and I don't want to rule out that she was intending to meet up with someone else. There is something of a secretive feel to her actions that night. I also don't want to rule out that she continued on her odd path after drinks with JM and met some harm along the way.

I believe they have every right (so to say) to investigate JM, and I have never disputed that. I have said that before, but I know that if they do release that evidence to us, and it is clear JM is involved some people will forget that I said that and say we were wrong all along (Even though I haven't picked a side). I believe JM doesn't make himself look good. But I need those dots to be connected before I can feel sure.

 

[cady]

Also, it is very unlikely, Imo, that JM has access to another house, etc. where he could "stash" a live person. Not even sure he has any place to live, if he moved out and owed rent money, which I believe his landlady said he did. This case, if it was JM who last saw her alive, seems a classic sexual assault turned murder. Jmo

Ps, is this "Coy" even MSM? Does he work for a news outlet?

Supposedly a journalist and hosts a radio show on insidec'ville. He should be on at 4pm again today. Maybe he will explain the delay in publishing this article he was hyping yesterday.

 

[SheltieMom1]

It's not allowed to ask co-workers to join you for drinks as you clock out? Those women are 21 years old, they are legal to drink and certainly adults. I don't see a thing wrong with that. A lot of the nurses I know met their future husbands that way.

I think the original post was referring specifically to JM. And of course it's not illegal. But it might be relevant in this case, where he is the suspect in the disappearance of a young female student. As background information, it wouldn't hurt to bring it to the attention of authorities. JMO

 

[CVilleSleuth]

UVA2015; you need to contact the police if you haven't done so already. Someone may do so on your behalf. Pick up the phone. Your friend's interactions will matter to the police.

It made them uncomfortable. We aren't nurses, we are students.

 

[Tugela]

Of course they can't. They must have probable cause. https://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+19.2-72

Whether we agree with that probable cause is certainly up for debate, but this was in response to someone who said perhaps LE don't even believe he is responsible, and are just using this warrant for other purposes while they look for the real suspect (I can't recall exactly what was said)

The bar for probable cause is very low. An arrest can be simply due to being the last person seen with her combined with what LE interpret as guilty behavior (such as an attempt to "flee"). I think the main evidence they would have been using in their affidavits to get the warrant would be the video evidence and this erratic reckless driving he supposedly engaged in when they tried to follow him, coupled with their inability to find him now. They would interpret that as "fleeing" and "hiding", both of which they could argue to a judge as evidence of consciousness of guilt. Getting the warrant would have taken time, so after he "fled" from them, they would have had to find a judge and make arguments for their case. They would tell the judge that if they didn't arrest him now he would disappear. That would be why there is a delay before the final warrant was issued. If they had more than that they would have arrested him when he first appeared at the police station, but they didn't.

 

[atthelake]

We're about to 1,000 and mods may make new thread... gather up those favorites here to bring forward perhaps as there have been a couple that would be great to have at the beginning of the new one.... eg #975 of this thread (since new format, I don't know how to bring forward posts from old threads...any help appreciated)

lol, in the time it took to post this more than 100 posts...egads

 

[Lovepink]

People may be divided on this. I agree with aHoo though. I not only grew up in Cville, but also went to UVa. My knowledge/connection with the Downtown Mall was only because of pre-UVa experiences, and post-UVa experiences. My 4 years attending UVa were essentially "Downtown Mall-less" The culture of UVa as an undergrad is very insulated from the rest of the town. Downtown Mall is considered the "rest of the town". Doesn't mean an undergrad wouldn't venture out there a few times, but from my personal experience (which I personally find relevant, whether others do not), an undergrad would not have the Downtown Mall as a typical weekend destination.

I've said before, that only in my humble and clearly-not-necessarily-factual opinion (argh, that gets tiring to say!), I believe it's very possible drugs were a motivation for her trip to the DM at that hour. I don't believe, at that point, she was lost. I don't believe she was there just to party.

Wow, yep! Sounds like there are different experiences for sure. My husband (then boyfriend) and I went there all the time. My friends used to hop the trolley on grounds and go as well. Pretty sure I even used to trolley to go at some point

 

[ninij9]

I definitely wouldn't think at that age I, someone older inviting me for drinks was weird.




I think I'm confused at how it would be a moral obligation to tell the police who have their hands tied that someone asked them out for drinks on the night Hannah disappeared.

I want justice as much as the next person but the focus should be on where Hannah is or IF JM took her where he would've left her.


Sent from my iPhone

They didn't say it was the night Hannah died. THAT would be something. It was more like "that guy asked me out once" I dont like rumors! [emoji51]

 

[ClueingForLooks]

Interesting. First round? Then the "abduction with intent to defile" charge filed last night was not due from any forensic finds? Did they come up with anything new or did Longo just talk the DA into filing this charge?

Maybe it was based on a video. They were still reviewing them as of yesterday or the day before, unless I'm mistaken.

 

[dotr]

Why is it taking so long for JM to turn himself in? Does he not realize the effect it is having on his family, friends, coworkers? The family of Hannah? Her friends and fellow students?

Every minute he delays is one minute longer before learning of what transpired with Hannah after they left Tempo. And possibly for her safe return? Can't he imagine what her parents are going through not knowing whether their daughter is dead or alive? Doesn't he think that they are in agony?

I wish he would just do the decent thing and turn himself in, guilty or innocent. JMV

[/QUOTE]

At this point, wish JM would just give word as to where Hannah can be located. If he is innocent, maybe he can suggest what direction he last saw her heading .
One thing about an older guy "dating" a teenage student who may have had a bit too much to drink and is disoriented in the early morning hours...is shouldn't he be the mature one, making sure she does not drink anymore and gets her home safely??!

 

[lateott]

Probably so she would be easier to track down on social media.

UVA students generally do not hang out with "townies." I know tinder is big around here, so it is possible they could've met on there, but I think that's unlikely. UVA students are sort of in a bubble, which is probably why Hannah felt fine walking home from the party alone without her male friend. The part I find sketchy is her walking all around to the downtown mall. Students usually take the trolley or don't even attempt to go there, especially alone.

First, thank you for participating!

Second, do UVA students receive an annual transit pass as part of registration? In some cities the student ID itself is valid for transit. Is that the case for UVA?

Third, you made an interesting comment about the trolley. If you were at the Downtown Mall and wanted to get back to campus at 1am (without a car), what would you do? Trolley (as you noted)? Bus? Taxi? Something else (if, say, friends were not able to pick you up)?

Thanks!

 

[Hank Scorpio]

But didnt the police watch him drive recklessly and not pull him over? If they thought he was endangering passengers, they would have pulled him over. Has he even been charged with fleeing from the cops while driving?

I think if they actually wanted him in jail for reckless driving, they would have caught him right then.

The way that it sounded was he was being trying to evade them at a high rate of speed and recklessly. Each state/agency has their own rules about high speed pursuit, regardless of the person they are pursuing.