VA - Hannah Elizabeth Graham, 18, Charlottesville, 13 Sept 2014 - #13

[Phoebeb]

Unless things have changed drastically, first years do not frequent the DTM, except maybe on special occasions or with upperclassmen who have cars. It is really nowhere near grounds or Hannah's apartment, which was just off grounds (campus). Aside from grounds, the Corner, the fraternity and sorority areas and perhaps North Grounds (Law School, JAG school, Graduate Business School), there is nowhere else first years would venture as a matter of course, or routine. If anything, all the stores on 29 are reachable by a short car ride and offer more variety.

This is not a mall like the shopping centers depicted in "Mall Cop." It's a pedestrian area of boutiques and restaurants, movie theater, etc. It doesn't offer anything that you couldn't get on or near grounds. Furthermore, it has a dangerous reputation (deserved or not) among students and townspeople alike. Nobody in their right mind would voluntarily walk there, from the Corner, alone and after dark.

It is my opinion she did not intend to end up there. I would be surprised if she had been there more than a handful of times during her time at the University. Furthermore, being drunk and possibly disoriented, wandering around after dark in a neighborhood with which she was not yet familiar (had only lived there a few weeks) likely got her turned around and moving in the wrong direction. That is very easy to do around U.Va.

JMO

Thanks for that insight- I did realize the mall was pedestrian.
If I was lost and drunk and knew enough to run down that stretch Preston (?) the Shell station was on, I would be so glad to find an area of restaurants, lights, people walking around once I got to the mall. Do you think she continued moving on the mall because she thought she was heading in the direction of home or because she felt it was dangerous? (If you have any ideas on what you would have done if in a similar situation) I'm just trying to figure out what she may have been thinking as we see her on the Sal's video.

 

[SheltieMom1]

bbm Probable- and the first round of dna has come back= negative. Let's see what happens if round 2 dna comes back negative. jmo idk

I don't think negative forensic tests provide probable cause for a warrant. And there is no indication the tests were negative, anyway. Something they found, in his car or home, provided evidence that this crime was committed and committed by him. JMO

 

[Wahoo123]

So back again to most likely lost and confused. But why oh why go for a drink with a stranger!!!!

I really don't think she was "lost" - she beelined downtown. It don't understand why she went to McGrady's...but I believe she wanted to go there (it's pretty isolated), and she must have wanted to go downtown after that.

Maybe she was "confused" and didn't have great reasons for going to these places? But...based on her route, I don't see evidence she was lost.

 

[sallye818]

I believe searchers were asked to look for any clothing, shoes, and her iphone with pink case.

From the blog that one of the searchers posted from Sat, her pants WERE specifically mentioned...color and all...so I'm thinking they had NOT found them at that point.

 

[BloodshotEye]

I keep sifting the sand, unable to conclude that JM is hiding something. I would agree, his current behavior, after being questioned, didn't work in his favor. Wish both LE and JM handled that much differently. I think Longo's 'posturing' in the PC, created a contentions atmosphere. It backfired. But of JM concealing evidence? Not so much.

- Look through the windows of his car, to the interior. It's a mess. He definitely didn't take a fire hose to the interior, to scrub potential evidence.

- He parked his car in plain view. He could have ditched it, at a family member's house, with the excuse that it is not running, and he can't afford to repair it now. But there it was, in the apartment parking lot.

- He could have hung out at granny's house, for a very long time, and feigned ill health. He did not. Was found in his apartment.

I will be the first to eat a slice of humble pie, if JM is the man. Right now - I'm just not able to see that. Rather, I worry that HG was so overly confident, she set out AGAIN, on foot, only to be overtaken or picked up by someone else at that bewitching hour. Let's face it, does anything good come of being on the street, alone - at nearly 2am in the morning, when the bars disgorge their patrons? And consider the area in which Tempo is located. I would be hard pressed to go there at that late hour. I am considering that HG thought she would be safer, walking on the street (street lights, cars passing, etc.), than accepting a ride from anyone. Previous cases have shown us that it takes mere seconds, for a person to be grabbed from the sidewalk, and pulled into a waiting car. Guess I will continue to sit on the fence for a while.

 

[daily]

He will be in jail as soon as he turns himself in or they find him. It was stated yesterday (sorry, it was a tweet, I don't have a link) where Chief Longo confirmed that the forensic evidence collected provided the probable cause to issue the newest warrant. JMO

Did he actually say that? I dont have a transcript, but the only quote i can find is: “We reached that point that the Commonwealth felt we had probable cause to seek an arrest warrant,”. I havent seen the PC, does he say the new warrant is from dna evidence?

 

[PrettyWoman86]

They didn't say it was the night Hannah died. THAT would be something. It was more like "that guy asked me out once" I dont like rumors! [emoji51]

Are we assuming she's dead? I think sometimes hindsight makes you feel creeped out about things.


Sent from my iPhone

 

[katiewonders]

Without a link, the first round of dna coming back negative is just your opinion as you've stated with "JMO". Right?

bbm Probable- and the first round of dna has come back= negative. Let's see what happens if round 2 dna comes back negative. jmo idk

 

[eddy]

It's not allowed to ask co-workers to join you for drinks as you clock out? Those women are 21 years old, they are legal to drink and certainly adults. I don't see a thing wrong with that. A lot of the nurses I know met their future husbands that way.

As a medical professional I would say it is inappropriate and demonstrates poor judgment to ask a student out . When I was a student a very handsome radiologist asked me out. I found it creepy and flattering.

 

[Biggles]

I dont believe for a second that they lost track of him. That would mean he could be with hannah right now, and the police nor fbi would have any idea.

I respectfully disagree. This happens all the time. It's simply not possible for police and sheriff's departments to keep every single potential suspect under constant surveillance, no matter how high-profile the case may be, as in this instance. People with warrants for even more serious charges - murder, aggravated assault, armed robbery - can and do hide for weeks or even months before offender recovery units or even US marshals can catch up with them.

 

[ElementaryDearWatson]

Like I said, if they did he would be in jail. They have nothing.

Lol, he will be in jail as soon as they get their hands on him. There is a warrant for his arrest for class II felony. You think he is not in jail because they have nothing in the way of evidence? Sheesh! He's not in jail because he FLED. Likely because he brought great harm to this girl.

 

[Lovepink]

The bar for probable cause is very low. An arrest can be simply due to being the last person seen with her combined with what LE interpret as guilty behavior (such as an attempt to "flee"). I think the main evidence they would have been using in their affidavits to get the warrant would be the video evidence and this erratic reckless driving he supposedly engaged in when they tried to follow him, coupled with their inability to find him now. They would interpret that as "fleeing" and "hiding", both of which they could argue to a judge as evidence of consciousness of guilt. Getting the warrant would have taken time, so after he "fled" from them, they would have had to find a judge and make arguments for their case. They would tell the judge that if they didn't arrest him now he would disappear. That would be why there is a delay before the final warrant was issued. If they had more than that they would have arrested him when he first appeared at the police station, but they didn't.

I am a former Magistrate (working on getting verified) and while I agree that the bar for probable cause is lower than beyond a reasonable doubt, it's really not THAT low. I would never have issued that warrant based on him being the last person and fleeing. Simply put magistrates are trained to require more than that. I never had an intent to defile case so I don't have examples of what they would use, but I can speak generally and say just being the last person to see her would NOT have been enough for me and I am sure my coworkers would have felt the same.

 

[SweetT]

Interesting. First round? Then the "abduction with intent to defile" charge filed last night was not due from any forensic finds? Did they come up with anything new or did Longo just talk the DA into filing this charge?

I'm just guessing maybe they meaning le had found Hannah's pants and underwear

 

[sace]

bbm Probable- and the first round of dna has come back= negative. Let's see what happens if round 2 dna comes back negative. jmo idk

Where did you see that the dna was negative...I live in VA & my daughter went to UVA from 2010 to 2014 & to get the warrant for those charges abduction & intent to defile they have to have positive DNA or they wouldn't even get a warrant. We will see the outcome but I'm almost sure this man in the end will end up with a murder charge. JMO

 

[MJPeony]

But didnt the police watch him drive recklessly and not pull him over? If they thought he was endangering passengers, they would have pulled him over. Has he even been charged with fleeing from the cops while driving?

I think if they actually wanted him in jail for reckless driving, they would have caught him right then.

Yeah, I thought of that and good point... It is perplexing. But the only thing I can come up with is that at that time LE didn't have enough on him to keep him there for any length of time. As in, they knew forensics were due soon, but were forced to buy some time. So they slapped the warrant on him- as a way of plastering his face all over the area almost like a "we are coming for you" to get the public highly aware to help track him when they needed to get him. It plays out as a horrible irony to me. That they were SO close to being able to keep him, but couldn't.

I don't know.:thinking: The police tactics have confused me for many days now.

 

[Elley Mae]

If what they gathered up in round 1 of the search warrant is what allowed them to go back a second time and what has come back from round 1 has come back negative on dna, does that then throw out the round 2 search warrant. I don't know if that makes sense to me. :truce:

 

[Le Singe]

Interesting. First round? Then the "abduction with intent to defile" charge filed last night was not due from any forensic finds? Did they come up with anything new or did Longo just talk the DA into filing this charge?

that doesn't specify when they came in just that it had already happened. The ppl at WTOP (i don't know if thats MSM or not) where reporting it last night.

 

[wendle83]

http://insidecville.com/blog/exclusive-new-video-footage-of-hannah/

EXCLUSIVE New Video Footage of Hannah


hope this is OK

It looks like she is just strolling along leisurely. IMO

 

[Elainetk]

Even though first years (freshman) can't have cars, they do take the trolly to downtown. There are concerts at the Jefferson, movie theater, restaurants, shopping. My daughter and her friends frequented it during their first year.

 

[ninij9]

Jamicat,

You're missing the point. Understanding JM's nature and behavior can help develop pattern of life analysis. It helps paint the picture of behavior pre-Saturday.

Now every darn guy in the world will be afraid to ask a woman out for a drink[emoji9]