VA - Hannah Elizabeth Graham, 18, Charlottesville, 13 Sept 2014 - #6

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otto said:
Exactly. It seems so straight forward. An innocent man who innocently helps an intoxicated girl late at night has no problem coming forward to provide information about that missing girl. From what I've read, it seems that he either doesn't live alone or he has frequent visitors, so presumably could provide an alibi if he was home at 1:30AM on the night in question.

What is he afraid of?
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Being framed.

(I'm not saying he is being framed, but that it would be a real fear.)
 
New poster. So what do people make of the scent trail that seemed to be verified by LE searches earlier in the week at the Parking Garage, the Lexis Nexus place, and the Woolen Mill? Seemed to be based in forensic reality. Were they just dead-ends, and how do they fit in the proposed theories about HG's last known presence? And how about the 2 women passing LJM in the mall? Have they come forward, or are they part of the continuing pleas for witnesses to come forward?
 
Hi Friends,

Just stopping back into the site after taking a break waiting for the Arias retrial. From Google Maps, the area sure looks like there's plenty of trees and creeks in the area for JLM to have placed HG. I am so sorry for her parents but there is little doubt that LE has the right person: how he went out of his way to approach/befriend/lead her into the bar and afterwards. If he only had drinks with her why didn't he go to LE like the first good Samaritan? Maybe LE can find some DNA on something he disgards since they are keeping close watch on him. IMO
 
bettiepageturner said:
I have NEVER been as conflicted about the (early) facts of a case as this one. I'm impressed by LE's passion and forthcomingness. Rationally, I know it's incredibly unlikely for them to suggest a POI they actually do not believe to be a POI.. the damage to his reputation would be irreparable.

I get the biggest sense of "they've got the wrong guy" feeling right now than I've ever experienced.. which is to say, very, very infrequently. Seeing his FB and the types of absolutely normal friends he has merely confirmed it. Most of the POIs we see follow endless *advertiser censored* pages and befriend fake cam models and whatnot. (just an observation— obviously the "in plain site" creeps are just as prevalent.)

If the DM is right and he told his grandma they got drinks and parted, that's already less than so many other "players" in different cases. I think about the fact that I'm literally the only person I know "irl" who follows these cases.. nobody on my newsfeed reposts missing persons stories or amber alerts. Nobody I know will have heard of any of the recent big cases here. I also don't have any friends who work hospital hours, so irregularly that their neighbors think they don't work. It's super likely IMO that he didn't even know "a college student" was missing, so in his mind he had nothing to report before the warrant was served.

I'm at least glad that I'm not the only one not stunned at the possibility of Hannah having met him that night — two drunk, happy, strangers. One of them apparently well-known and charismatic.
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I'm not stunned at the possibility, either. From pictures, the POI looks like someone I would befriend.

I am not sure why I sense he is sinister in the surveillance tapes, but I do.

The friends on Facebook do not dissuade me either. If Facebook had been around during Ted Bundy's time, all of his friends would have been good people, too.

I do not feel as though LE has the wrong guy as their POI, at all.

bettiepageturner said:
Again, IF the DM is correct and LJM has admitted to buying Hannah drinks, it doesn't matter that he didn't know at the time she was underage. He could absolutely have already been arrested, IMO. If LE is so sure they have their guy, why has that not happened? I'm not actually trying to sound persuasive here or whatever— I really don't know what the benefits are of arresting vs not arresting a POI in terms of following him etc, outside of obvious "he'll lead us to the body" cases that I've never actually seen pan out. Way too often someone everyone here suspects ahead of time to be a POI is arrested for a minor, unrelated charge. Wondering why everything about this case has been so.. different so far.
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Do we have confirmation that it was alcohol he purchased for Hannah Graham?

He could have purchased alcohol for himself but given her a soft drink instead, or even a cup of coffee. He could have gained her trust that way, but that doesn't mean that he didn't slip something into it.
 
Quote Originally Posted by Inthedetails View Post
Possible scenarios:

* HG left with JM in the car and he dropped her off near her home. She was then abducted by someone else.

* HG and JM parted ways at the bar and she walked home but was abducted by someone else. I doubt this as I think it's in character for JM to offer a ride.

* HG and JM parted ways and HG was approached by WG (Doorway Guy) or BBM (Bald Black Man) at the mall and taken away.

* HG and JM left together in the car for the party but couldn't find it. Hence, that last text. He offers to take her somewhere else where the crime occurred, either by him in the car or his home, or by someone else at a party for instance. This is what I currently think happened, but open to changing my mind. It could have been rape and murder, or an overdose that resulted in death....not sure without the body, of course.

* HG was targeted at the mall by sex slave ring (I doubt this, but maybe).

* HG and JM parted ways and she fell somewhere and died from overdose, injuries, etc.

* What other options?


Just K said:
Yes, lists I love lists! I think you hit all of the possibilities. Im sure someone will say, maybe she ran away. IMO, that didn't happen.
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Also, but not very likely, she could have met back up with friends where something happened.
 
Erised said:
I'm not convinced that the POI had anything to do with Hannah's disappearance. Yes, he's the last person seen with her, but the final text message is too weird to me. It makes no sense that she would text him from inside his car or at his house saying she was lost somewhere she wasn't, and it makes no sense that he would text from her phone to place her a few miles from where he would have abducted her. Sadly, I think they parted ways after Tempos and she either ran in the direction of 14th and Wertland or was dropped off there. I've heard conflicting stories about whether or not she was actually present inside Tempos or not. I think she was abducted somewhere around there shortly afterwards because her phone was turned off after that (as far as we know....)

I do wonder if older white guy remained in the area and abducted her after Tempos. The way he stopped and walked after her still sends chills down my spine. I know he came forward on his own and spoke to police, but what if he was trying to take the heat off of himself? I also think some killers get off on being in/near the media circus without getting caught. I'm not totally unconvinced of older white guy's involvement.
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Why wouldn't she be texting about the party from in his car? Maybe she told him she was going to a party but couldn't find the address. Maybe he offered to help, or said he was going to the same party? She was visibly intoxicated, so she probably was not thinking straight. Maybe they went into Tempo to buy a bottle of wine for the party, each had a small glass, they put the top back on, and got in the car to go to the party.

"• After 1:08 a.m. Graham and a man with dreadlocks enter Tempo Restaurant & Bar on Fifth Street Southeast. He buys alcohol, they stay 15 minutes and leave together.

• 1:20 a.m. Graham texts friends, "I'm coming to a party...but I'm lost." It was the last time she had contact with anyone. If her phone pinpointed her location, police have not released the information, and police did not clarify whether the text was sent before or after leaving the bar."

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/09/19/missing-virginia-student/15890571/
 
HarvestMoon said:
How do you get those blacked out squares on your FB page?
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You google image search 'black square' and upload it like any photo. I've done white squares at a time I wanted to feel invisible (grieving). I chose white because it looked completely blank that way. It's just a way of having no image but without that creepy outline that FB uses by default.
 
Inthedetails said:
He didn't talk to LE, but told his mom (according to his gramma) that he bought HG drinks, but then left. I think little by little that story will expand. I still don't know if he killed her, but I do think she was in his car and he is scared to admit it.

He could be scared because he's guilty. Or, he could be scared because he's innocent and afraid of being found guilty.
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There seems to be so much surveillance video out there that if he drove her somewhere, and dropped her off, there would be proof. All he has to do is provide an address, or an intersection, and police will follow up to determine where she went next. He shouldn't be afraid of the truth, unless he is responsible for her disappearance.
 
<modsnip>

I feel like the police have done a GREAT job so far - lots of useful info released, quick to follow-up on leads etc. If this guy truly has a hand in Hannah's disappearance and/or murder, I doubt they would just let him walk around where he pleases. They examined his car AND apartment after all. As of now he is merely a POI and NOT a suspect. I think we should respect that. Of course it does not look good for him right now - but that also might be a reason as to why he's held back. Sadly you can see it all over twitter, newsarticles and forum - people made a judgement real quick based on race and not much else. Lots and lots of racially charged comments.

<modsnip> The morality of him buying a drink for an already tipsy underage girl is another matter entirely.

MOO.
 
Just a thought...

What if she did make it to a party or home and died there? Friends got scared, hid the body, then reported her missing 36 hours later..? Maybe I just need to stop watching Law and Order today. ;)
 
netsleuth said:
Just wanted to point out that they also issued a warrant for a phone, pretty sure that would be JLM's phone.
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Is there a link. This is the first I've heard about a warrant for his phone records.
 
This case is just so complicated. I have never seen anything like it.

The POI seems to be just as much as an upstanding citizen as Hannah's parents and friends make her out to be. I see absolutely no discrepancies. Some want to judge him for buying her a drink as she was underage. So, did he know she was underage? We don't know. We also seem to forget that she was 18, and an adult and responsible for her actions, as far as the law is concerned. So she accepted a drink from him? they are both EQUALLY guilty.

<modsnip>
 
thinksalot said:
She might have accepted a ride home but she didnt want him to know where she lives soshe had him drop her off on Wertland and that's when something happened.
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If that's what happened, he should say so. There is a missing girl here, and he could be the hero to solve the mystery of where she was after leaving the Tempo restaurant.
 
ZsaZsa said:
There's nothing like righteous indignation though; if I were in his shoes and I was innocent I would be inviting anyone who wanted to talk to me to come on over, and I would have marched straight down to the Police station to demand they clear
my name. Not saying anything when he is obviously aware they are investigating him, is very indicative of some guilty secret IMO.
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There is a reality though in many communities. In my small town, the public wants a crime to be solved and several times the police try to pin it on someone who ends up not being guilty and many times it takes years to get to the real truth. Plus if you follow the justice project and other programs like that - innocent people get charged and convicted all the time. Why cast suspicion on yourself. Plus if there is a warrant out for your arrest - even for parking tickets - or child support - why would you hang around the police?
 
Inthedetails said:
Being framed.

(I'm not saying he is being framed, but that it would be a real fear.)
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If she wandered away on her own after leaving Tempo restaurant, there will be video footage to prove it. If she got in his car and he dropped her off somewhere, again, there will be surveillance video. He has no reason to fear being framed. In fact, if he dropped her off, police can immediately collect video from that area and find out what happened next.
 
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