Found Deceased VA - Morgan Dana Harrington, 20, Charlottesville, 17 Oct 2009 - #10

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not having a working phone really contributed to this horrible ending I strongly feel

I agree to a point. I really think the arena should be held accountable to a degree. Not letting her back in or at least making some sort of contact with help for her is inexcusable. I can understand these businesses do not want people leaving and then to re-enter because of drugs, however, change your rules and if you search their belongings and there is nothing there, LET THEM BACK IN!!!

They come in a group and should be able to leave as a group.

I have wanted to say that forever! Gee- good grief… I am so frustrated with that arena.
 
Walker, the VSP have never used the word crime, as in a crime has been committed, that I know of. If you have a link that points that out please let me know.

That's the whole problem. MH's disappearance is being treated as a mere "missing persons" case; when most of us agree that it seems that she was a victim of foul play.

In the article I pointed out to you yesterday which has LT. Rader updating the press on the status of Morgan, he uses the word abducted. THAT is the only thing being investigated regarding Morgan.

Abduction is a crime.


You say that “they never specified exactly who was cleared of what possible crime”. The only crime anyone has discussed including the VSP is MH being gone.

MH could possibly have left on her own volition. MH just being missing doesn't necessarily mean that a crime took place.

Granted, abducted would also encompass missing, taken, or kidnapped.

Abduction means a forcible taking of someone.

In the article they also say she was not forced out of the JPJ arena.

Rumors had it that she had been thrown out of the arena for disorderly conduct. No one seems to have suggested that a kidnapper managed to force her out of the arena. With the crowds, such a scenario would not be likely.

So what other crimes have you heard about; better yet read about, that you can post here? I would venture to say none, because there are none. There has been no mention of an assault, rape, murder or violence put forth by the VSP, just abduction.

The whole point of the thread is that we don't know what happened to her.

How often does one slip and fall & end up with a bleeding face? Of course, I know you are going to argue that it is possible; but that someone pushed her or that she got caught up in some altercation is also possible. A bleeding face is evidence of a possible assault.

My statement about the mention that she was possibly drugged referred more to the intuitions of people closer to the case. They feel that MH being drugged is not inconsistent with their understanding of the events of that evening. Their intuitions don't prove anything, but they might indicate a direction.

According to the VSP Morgan was either "abducted or willingly got into a car". Rader did speculate about her being drugged but it was only that, it is not an absolute like the abduction. So what other crimes are you referring too?

To drug someone is to commit a type of assault.

The same holds true with her friends. From day one the ONLY friends in any discussion on any forum or by any LEA have been Dan, Amy and Sarah. There has not been any mention or even a hint of them meeting up with other friends once inside. The discussion of the friends and them being cleared by LE has always just been about the three that went with her and nobody else.

MH could have interacted with other so-called "friends" that night. How would we know?


May I yet again point out that this is just a reporter's summary? And that both "friends" and "cleared" are undefined.

Possible crimes perpetrated against MH that night: (Please note the word "possible." )
1. Minor assault resulting in a cut & bleeding face.
2. Harassment of some type within the arena resulting in emotional upset described by witnesses.
3. Loss of pocketbook & cell phone, possibly due to assault and/or robbery (although money probably wasn't the motive).
4. Abduction, since she is missing now for about 11 weeks.
5. Rape & Murder. Since we don't have info past 10/18/09.
6. Forcible drugging, according to the article.
7. Deliberate falsification of statements and/or withholding of relevant info to LE and the public which would impact her safety and well-being. Could justify a civil suit.
 
Just thought of something... Which probably means nothing in the grand scheme of things...

I cannot find the article from where I remember this posting from - but there is reference made to it on 2 other sites in the comments section:

http://www.truecrimereport.com/2009/10/comment_of_the_day_morgan_harr.php

http://www.care2.com/news/member/355709577/1282793

It's concerning MH's fall during the concert.

Does anyone remember the person stating that 2 of her family members were at the concert and that MH fell right in front of them? They supposedly asked MH if she was ok and MH didn't respond but just stared at them.

If I remember correctly there was no mention of those 2 people seeing blood on MH's face. A facial/head wound bleeds pretty quickly because the capillaries (sp) are so close together and not as deeply imbeded.

If MH fell and fell that hard one would think that these 2 witnesses to the fall would have said something about her bleeding... Or is my mind forgetting that they made this statement.

Also seems to pop into my mind that when the person in the restroom reported she saw MH - she said that it looked like MH had been hit...but again, I don't remember her saying anything about blood, saying only it seemed like MH was upset and crying/had been crying.

The following is from report, but it seems it was implied ( ), by the reporter that this is when MH fell and cut her chin - but I don't believe this is what the witness exactly reported: A witness reports seeing Morgan in bathroom upset/crying and it appeared as if she had been hit (she apparently fell and cut her chin).
http://www.examiner.com/x-30376-Pri...organ-Harrington-missing-young-Virginia-woman

Maybe I've missed something or not recalling something properly...but it seems like all of the reports I recall are about her noticed with a bloody chin outside.

I'm also wondering if there is a confirmation of when she was texting with the young man 60 miles away. Wondering if the 8:48 phone call was the last her phone was working or if the texts with this man continued after that time.
 
Walker since you seem to have answers, who do you think would have committed 3 seperate assaults on Morgan?

My answers are just theories & comments.

We should at least consider a holistic view of the evening.

Summary:

1. AM kisses her: was it because she knew she was leaving and they would not see each other for a significant amount of time? Or was it just that MH seemed upset about something? Her roommate could have been trying to comfort her over some mishap or instance of abuse.

2. Shortly thereafter some type of physical action results in MH receiving a minor cut to her chin, which was bleeding.

3. According to witnesses, she was seen crying in the ladies room, possibly indicating some type of emotional trauma in addition to the injury.

4. She leaves the arena for reasons unknown.

5. She tries at least once to get back in.

6. Answers cell phone. Texts guy 60 miles away. Walks over to the RV lot.

7. Conversation with BB players.

8. Witnesses say she was hitching a ride on the Copeley St. Bridge.



Didn't LE say the fall was by accident while she was taking pictures, that it wasn't related to her being hit in the chin by anyone?

That is what some witness said, but someone might want to cover up a fight if any actually occurred; for example, if they started the fight & they are on parole.

When LE said her friends were cleared they specifically meant the 3 present that night, not to mention it was mentioned that the young man she was texting was cleared as well. Which other friends did you think LE was referring to, Walker? She has so many friends..

LE never made any specific statement clearing any specific person completely of any and all culpability in this case. The "friends" are "cleared" is too vague to be useful. Maybe that was intentional; they don't want the companions to be harassed or blamed (since they could be totally innocent), but the phrase & its expression are weasel-worded enough that VSP won't look bad if new evidence suggests that someone had misled them.

You talk about anger as a motivator.. that would seem that either
A. she knew the perp well enough for the perp to be angry at her
N. the perp would be delusional possibly schitzophrenic and not know her at all and have projected anger onto her

For that level of anger, the perp would have to actually know her well, and be enraged at something that had occurred that night. Something like a fight inside the arena.

Walker, while i do agree with you that crimes were committed against her, i don't see a "pattern of assaults" that night against her. Do you think she has a secret boyfriend who would have committed the "pattern of assaults" against her?
If she had any boyfriends LE would know.

Seems odd that multiple incidents seem to have occurred all in one night. That they are all totally unrelated seems unlikely.

LE might not know about every BF.
 
MBLover; Was this it?

Quote:
MBLover
Registered User Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 481
Originally Posted by salvarenga
This was posted on the Find Morgan site......you'll have to decide for yourself whether to believe it or not.

http://findmorgan.com/forums/index.p...3;sa=showPosts

The person that speaks about her family members seeing MH fall - she sounds credible - until the statement is made that MH is taking pictures - then falls and can't respond when asked if she's okay because these family members say MH was stoned...

IMO if she was THAT stoned that she couldn't speak how would she be able to take photos?
__________________
"The real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes, but in having new eyes." ~Marcel Proust
 
MBLover; Was this it?

Quote:
MBLover
Registered User Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 481
Originally Posted by salvarenga
This was posted on the Find Morgan site......you'll have to decide for yourself whether to believe it or not.

http://findmorgan.com/forums/index.p...3;sa=showPosts

The person that speaks about her family members seeing MH fall - she sounds credible - until the statement is made that MH is taking pictures - then falls and can't respond when asked if she's okay because these family members say MH was stoned...

IMO if she was THAT stoned that she couldn't speak how would she be able to take photos?
__________________
"The real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes, but in having new eyes." ~Marcel Proust

Thanks Ghost! I had actually forgotten that I had made that post! Yikes! Anyway, the link says not found - so I'm guessing this info has been removed from the MH site.
 
Hey MBLover; that link worked when I clicked it prior to posting the info. That forum is down for maintenance it says, so maybe that’s the reason it directs you to that page.

I don’t know if we are allowed to link to facebook (guess I’ll find out with this post) but here is an excellent recap of what you are looking for as it relates to MH, her fall and bleeding.

http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=56641053286&topic=13863
 
Hey MBLover; that link worked when I clicked it prior to posting the info. That forum is down for maintenance it says, so maybe that’s the reason it directs you to that page.

I don’t know if we are allowed to link to facebook (guess I’ll find out with this post) but here is an excellent recap of what you are looking for as it relates to MH, her fall and bleeding.

http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=56641053286&topic=13863

Quote from the link:

Debbie Parrish CarsonI was there that night and saw Morgan hit the floor during Lamb of God...she was taking pictures and came down off the step and fell flat on her face. When we helped her up we didn't notice any bleeding (but remember it was dark in there)
24 November at 15:07 · Report
... from facebook

Debbie Parrish CarsonHi - not sure but that does sound like my dad. So yes, my husband and I saw her fall and me and another girl standing close by helped her back onto her feet. She was pretty out of it...she could have definitely been hurt by that fall...it didn't seem like her hands caught her at all.
25 November at 03:23 · Report

Debbie Parrish CarsonTo clear up any confusion with whoever made the comment that " when we noticed she was incoherent and let her be".....She was walking okay it seemed like, and when she fell, we helped her to her feet, her drink was still in her hand, and still contained liquid so even after the fall, her drink was still up in the air. We asked if she was okay and then she didnt' answer, she simply tried to gain composure and began to walk forward (and out of the area where we were standing). She did seem very incoherent. We did not see any blood from the fall, which is not to say it didn't happen moments later, but at that moment in time there were no visable indication of trauma the few seconds we made contact with her afer the fall. Yes she was completely out of it, as were 1000's of other people who were there that night. I could not take it upon myself to follow every potential incoherent person around that night to ...
25 November at 03:43 · Report

MH fell flat on her face, but managed not to spill her drink?
 
There has been a lot of discussion regarding MH’s car and what her dad said as it relates to her car being used that night. His initial comment was that Morgan’s car was not at the JPJ. Some folks thought that Sarah Sneed had lied to him. Below is a post I just ran across while doing a little Morgan surfing. It is from 12-29-09. This is from the family’s forum where Mr. H posts now and then to make or clear up a point. It is under the “Four went and two came back” heading. I had not seen this and find it interesting; but what’s more interesting is the fact that she asked him about buying gas for her friend’s car. There has been discussion here about Morgan’s checking account being overdrawn and about how she couldn’t buy a ticket to re-enter because she had no money that night. If that is the case, how was she going to pay for the gas? While you are pondering that; ponder this, LE has never revealed whether or not Morgan had a credit card. When asked at the first presser, they didn’t answer. We recently learned that she had a debit card in her purse that was found with her other belongings, but still no mention of a credit card. Could this post by Dr. Harrington lead us to believe that she did have money in her checking account, cash and/or a credit card that night? Something to consider… Link here;

http://www.findmorgan.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1524&page=8


________________________________________
questioner
Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: OZ
Posts: 1,829
Morgan's Dad
just to clarify, i don't think anyone lied. I think I assumed. Prior to leaving roanoke, Morgan asked if she could buy gas for her friend to drive. Thus i assumed another car was driven. I did not ask if her car was driven or not, i assumed. It would not have mattered to me whether her car was driven to the concert or not. hope that helps. dan
 
I agree to a point. I really think the arena should be held accountable to a degree. Not letting her back in or at least making some sort of contact with help for her is inexcusable. I can understand these businesses do not want people leaving and then to re-enter because of drugs, however, change your rules and if you search their belongings and there is nothing there, LET THEM BACK IN!!!

They come in a group and should be able to leave as a group.

I have wanted to say that forever! Gee- good grief… I am so frustrated with that arena.

Unreal- while i don;rt think that Morgan deserves anything to have happened to her because she left the arena, it certainly is not the fault of JPJ that something did happen. She;s 20 not 5 for god;s sake . There are good reasons for disallowing re-entry.The reason re-entry is banned is not because of contraband, but people going in, and then sending their ticlet stubs out for others who have not paid for a ticket to use the stubs to gain entry.
 
Unreal- while i don;rt think that Morgan deserves anything to have happened to her because she left the arena, it certainly is not the fault of JPJ that something did happen. She;s 20 not 5 for god;s sake . There are good reasons for disallowing re-entry.The reason re-entry is banned is not because of contraband, but people going in, and then sending their ticlet stubs out for others who have not paid for a ticket to use the stubs to gain entry.

IF MH was causing a commotion, had blood on her face, appeared drunk/out of it (as she did to others) - IMO JPJ security should have taken control of the situation. Whether that be they took her to their office and sorted out the situation or simply called the police to handle the situation.

ETA: Yes she is 20 - not 5... But 20 years old is not the legal age to drink and it was obvious to several that she had broken the law - it should have been more than obvious to security. Even if they didn't know her age "Drunk in Public" is against the law.

Hey - I know 20 year olds drink...and I am not passing judgment and would never condemn her for it. But when someone is as out of control as she seemed to be - by other witness accounts - then security just should not have assumed that she was another drunk kid.
 
If that is the case, how was she going to pay for the gas? While you are pondering that; ponder this, LE has never revealed whether or not Morgan had a credit card. When asked at the first presser, they didn’t answer. We recently learned that she had a debit card in her purse that was found with her other belongings, but still no mention of a credit card. Could this post by Dr. Harrington lead us to believe that she did have money in her checking account, cash and/or a credit card that night?
http://www.findmorgan.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1524&page=8

I've felt like MH was bound to have some money somewhere. IMO I don't believe that Dr. or Mrs. Harrington would send their child off 2 hrs. away - overnight - without some kind of $$$.

Also IMO, round and round we've gone about her debit card and being overdrawn - but also IMO I do not believe that Dr. Harrington would leave his daughter's account overdrawn in case there were more debits coming in. Who would want to pay the extra overdraft charges - which sometimes can be quite hefty.

Thanks for finding that post Ghost!
 
Quote from the link:

MH fell flat on her face, but managed not to spill her drink?

Wonder if she still had her camera after this fall? Could she have lost her camera then? Or could someone snatched if off of her during that episode?
 
IMO it is verrrry interesting when the police ask the public for help with this case.

I don't have the exact wording correct here, but LE recently asked folks to be on the lookout for anybody who attended that Metallica concert that is acting differently; and report that to police.

Makes me think that they may be leaning towards believing that the perp was already at the show that night (or had given others the impression that they had attended the concert).

(Or maybe LE want to throw that out there in case a member of the general public has knowledge of a person acting differently and that person was supposedly at the show that night.)

I just wonder if LE have some info that leads them to think the perp was inside the arena.
------------------------------
Another subject: boyfriend

Its been said on here, as opinion only, that LE might not know of all MH's bfs
I think that is an interesting point. IF she was single, and IF several suitors had affection for her, that could be a factor. Like fighting over her. Jealousy over an "infidelity" and Anger. Which could be a motive. JMO, MOO, etc.
 
MBLover, I agree with you; Morgan had to have some money that night. Let me give the forum something else to think about. When I was in LE, I spent as all investigators do, a lot of time in the classroom. One of the basics taught in “investigations 101” are the mistakes that can be made under the rule of assumption. In other words, if you assume something is a fact or truth then you may just blow the investigation. Well, let me step right up here to the front of the line and scream ”guilty” for having fallen into that trap. Here’s why; from the time this case started I have heard she was overdrawn and that she had a debit card (as the investigation progressed). I too thought, “Hey, overdrawn means she’s out of luck with the debit card”. It dawned on me last night, what if her debit card was not linked to HER account but to one that was maintained by her mom or dad? Then the picture changes dramatically as it relates to her being tapped out and her card not working. There could have been plenty of money in an account to back up the debit card if that is the case, Something so simple…see what I mean about that assumption thing?
 
It dawned on me last night, what if her debit card was not linked to HER account but to one that was maintained by her mom or dad? Then the picture changes dramatically as it relates to her being tapped out and her card not working. There could have been plenty of money in an account to back up the debit card if that is the case, Something so simple…see what I mean about that assumption thing?

You are absolutely right.

My bank account was 'linked' to my husbands account - 2 entirely different accounts - that way if something happened in my account or vice versa there would be funds to cover it - but at the same time it would still show as overdrawn on whichever account had the problem.

My husband also had our daughter's account 'linked' to his account for just in case as well.

And there is also the overdraft protection feature that banks/credit unions offer....
 
I'll come at this from a different viewpoint; I've managed to break ribs at one arena concert and leave another with big abrasions on my face. Nobody assaulted me except some Crown Royal and some pills, shave 70 pounds off me and I would be in real bad shape. Now both those evenings nobody booted me from the arena because I was one of many f'd up concert goers. Security's job is simple, maintain the peace, forcing someone to leave for being visibly intoxicated isn't a first line decision, the crowd outnumbers security in overwhelming numbers, sobriety policing could cause a riot. I've seen several situations develop where security was a bit heavy-handed and things looked as if they could get out of control. Same logic at sporting events; if you can walk and talk, don't fight or cause a commotion you are golden. I've been to hundreds of concerts in arenas/stadiums/amphitheaters the security INSIDE is always similar. Now how the cops handle the parking lots varies greatly.....

Now I'm sure everyone has a story about a cousin, roommate, etc that got booted for next to nothing, I got one or two also, but for every person that gets ejected there are 30 roaming the halls stoned or drunk out of their gourds.
 
I'm not going to find the link **laziness**, but there was one article that mentioned Morgan asking her dad if it was alright to buy gas for either the concert or someone's car or something. To me that infers there was a credit card available to her that was maintained by her parents even if her actual "debit" card was overdrawn. I pay all expenses with a credit card and use my debit strictly as an ATM card for cash withdrawls, they may have had Morgan setup the same way.
 
the FACT *one of the few facts here...is that it has been stated over and over that her debit card was overdrawn....buying groceries...and she was going to "balance" her account at her parent's the very next day

Various people have said that she did NOT have money on the card (no one has said how much cash she had)

This same "point" has been worked over in each of these threads.[/quote]

Fact IS being overdrawn doesn't mean that charges still cannot go thru on ones account. Fact IS there is such a thing as overdraft protection - even though your account is overdrawn.

And just because it has been stated over and over that her account is overdrawn - means absolutely nothing - it could have been overdrawn several days before this event or even the day of this event - it doesn't mean that one of her parents did not deposit additional funds into her account at some point during the day on Friday.

From my perspective all that has been stated was that her account WAS overdrawn...didn't mean it was still overdrawn on Fri or Sat.
 
LogicalMinds; I’m not being confrontational here but can you or anyone show me a link that say’s her checking account was overdrawn, where that statement was made by her parents or LE? I recall this being taken as fact from almost day one. But I swear I read that in a forum somewhere as a statement made by one of her friends. In the link below, Dr. Harrington is talking about balancing her checkbook but never says it’s overdrawn.

http://74.125.93.132/search?q=cache...her+balance+checking&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
 
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