VA - Nicole Lovell, 13, Blacksburg, 27 January 2016 #5 *Arrests*

[Haayturtle]

I know this had been posted before, but each time I come across this it frustrates me! Why the age requirement!!!!! ?!???? Ugh [emoji52]

CM charge
Murder of a child younger than 14 years old by a person 21 years or older
- See more at: http://statelaws.findlaw.com/virginia-law/virginia-murder-laws.html#sthash.PXJqmWMA.dpuf


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[DatelineFan]

I know this had been posted before, but each time I come across this it frustrates me! Why the age requirement!!!!! ?!???? Ugh [emoji52]

CM charge
Murder of a child younger than 14 years old by a person 21 years or older
- See more at: http://statelaws.findlaw.com/virginia-law/virginia-murder-laws.html#sthash.PXJqmWMA.dpuf


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Possibly because of brain development. The part of our brains that understand the results of our actions (and some other things), I believe the frontal lobe, is the last to develop. It happens as late as mid twenties.

 

[whiskers]

I don't think NK is a fan of crime shows. She doesn't know how to keep her mouth shut or how to cover up the crime. She also apparently believed she wouldn't end up in jail, despite participating in the planning of the murder (so her understanding of the law is extremely limited). I believe she is eager to please when it comes to men. I think DE did things with Nicole an adult isn't supposed to do with a minor. Nicole was talking about him being her boyfriend to anybody who would listen. So he freaked out about ending up in jail and decided to get rid of her. And NK was eager to please.

This is the best opinion and summary I've read. I can see all of that happening in this way.

 

[wendybtn]

I know this had been posted before, but each time I come across this it frustrates me! Why the age requirement!!!!! ?!???? Ugh [emoji52]

CM charge
Murder of a child younger than 14 years old by a person 21 years or older
- See more at: http://statelaws.findlaw.com/virginia-law/virginia-murder-laws.html#sthash.PXJqmWMA.dpuf


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Just part of a list of aggravating factors the state of Virginia chose when the law was written, voted on, and signed into law by the then governor.

 

[Haayturtle]

Possibly because of brain development. The part of our brains that understand the results of our actions (and some other things), I believe the frontal lobe, is the last to develop. It happens as late as mid twenties.

But I don't understand why there is a cut off age for the child victim... !? Wth.


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[wendybtn]

Possibly because of brain development. The part of our brains that understand the results of our actions (and some other things), I believe the frontal lobe, is the last to develop. It happens as late as mid twenties.

In Tennessee, part of our aggravating factors in certain charges is if the convicted is 10 or more years older than the victim.

 

[Mollyandme]

Last night we were watching 48 hours. One LE said "body movers are a different type of murderer"
We never heard that before.
So DE & NK are 'body movers'........I have searched and cannot find any behavior traits of 'body movers'
and LE here to help with this psychosis?

From what I have read, body movers are more likely to be organized killers that have planned their crime, and are clever at luring their victims, obviously there are exceptions to this. Also, the obvious moving of a body from the crime scene to hinder the investigation and make discovering the body less likely. Every case is different, but according to the FBI and their Crime Classidication Manual, organized killers are more likely to have anti social personality disorder whereas disorganized killers are more likely to have a serious mental illness. It gets more complicated than that and is not so black and white as there can be some overlap. This type of profiling has gotten a lot of criticism because there are a lot of generalizations made so some suggest looking at organized vs disorganized killers on a continuum. I think that in this case, because there are two people involved, it is even more likely that there are aspects of both types of offender. Anyway, there's tons of articles on organized/disorganized criminals, this one is pretty short and succinct and links back to Credible studies for anyone who might be interested.

http://policelink.monster.com/train...tors-first-step-in-violent-offender-profiling

 

[passionflower]

http://policelink.monster.com/train...tors-first-step-in-violent-offender-profiling
great read thanks Mollyandme!!!

ORGANIZED OFFENDER conducts extensive planning for the crime and staging of the crime scene to avoid detection and identification. Some of this staging will include removal of evidence such as weapons and restraints used in the attack. He tends to personify victims and is fairly adept at striking up conversations in order to lure their victims into submission. He very specifically chooses his victims by age, appearance, gender, lifestyle, occupation and other details which would be trivial to anyone but him. This offender’s lifestyle can be characterized as ‘put together’.

 

[Historydetective63]

http://policelink.monster.com/train...tors-first-step-in-violent-offender-profiling
great read thanks Mollyandme!!!

ORGANIZED OFFENDER conducts extensive planning for the crime and staging of the crime scene to avoid detection and identification. Some of this staging will include removal of evidence such as weapons and restraints used in the attack. He tends to personify victims and is fairly adept at striking up conversations in order to lure their victims into submission. He very specifically chooses his victims by age, appearance, gender, lifestyle, occupation and other details which would be trivial to anyone but him. This offender’s lifestyle can be characterized as ‘put together’.

Right! Sounds like DE to me. Now, NK shows more characteristics of a disorganized offender, including possible mental illness, and keeping a trophy, in this case, Nicole's minions blanket. Wow, I found that article very interesting to say the least.

 

[passionflower]

the organized offender generally ranges in age from 18 to 45 years but is usually under the age of 35.Presents himself as non-threatening.While the Organized/Disorganized dichotomy is helpful in investigations of violent crime, it should be used with caution

http://policelink.monster.com/train...tors-first-step-in-violent-offender-profiling

 

[katydid23]

I have also read that 'body movers' usually have some kind of prior connection to their victims, hence the need to move the bodies if possible.

 

[BUF]

:tyou: Haayturtle! Okay, I admit I am worried about the interview. Did she wave her Miranda rights, or did she think she couldn't leave until she told everything she knew about Nicole's murder? I'm sure they have her on tape waving her rights?????

Don't know if it was taped, but she did sign a Miranda waiver...

http://wset.com/news/local/suspect-in-13-year-olds-murder-in-court-today

On January 30th, Nicole's body was found. On January 31st, Keepers signed a Miranda Waiver.

 

[cujenn81]

Fill in blanks please for a time frame
When did VT start? August 24, 2015
When did NK meet DE?
When did the tutoring start?
When did DE start failing in his running?
(March 2015 student athlete of the week & April 15 athlete of the year)
When did his ankle get hurt?
When was NK appendectomy?
When was Christmas break? How long? full calendar of all breakshttps://www.registrar.vt.edu/dates_deadlines/timetable_calendar/Fall-2015.html
When did NL start her on line relationship with DE?
anyone know anything about the summer of NK or DE?
Thanks

NK's dad said they first heard DE's name in October or November but didn't know they were "that close."

[video=cnn;justice/2016/02/04/virginia-tech-students-nicole-lovell-killing-court-savidge-sot-nr.cnn]http://www.cnn.com/2016/02/08/us/blacksburg-virginia-natalie-keepers-profile-nicole-lovell/index.html[/video]

&

Nicole's friend (the one who said she called DE her BF) said she first heard about DE back in October.

http://wset.com/news/local/nicole-lovells-friend-warned-about-online-dating-months-before-murder

 

[passionflower]

http://triblive.com/news/westmoreland/5923978-74/knife-weapon-someone

“It's an up-close-and-personal weapon" intense anger, fear and a desire to watch others suffer,
“When you're plunging the knife into someone's chest, you see the fear in the victim's eyes,
The physical motion of stabbing someone isn't easy,
“With the amount of bones in the chest cavity, the odds of striking clean like that are pretty low,” he said. “That why you see a lot of flesh wounds on the arms and face.
People see a knife and they twist, they defend themselves. That thrust took anger.”

 

[passionflower]

I also read that just because you are stabbed does not show you die right away...........heartbreaking to think NL might of still been alive for awhile. Prayers that it was quick and fast.

 

[cujenn81]

I have also read that 'body movers' usually have some kind of prior connection to their victims, hence the need to move the bodies if possible.

I've read/heard this too. But then I've also read that criminals who move the body, but don't go to great lengths to conceal or bury it (& it sounds like these two didn't), only do so to create time and distance between themselves and the victim. They don't go to great lengths to conceal the body because they don't believe they can be connected to the crime.

 

[BUF]

Here is an edited version of the video Haayturtle posted last night that just has the section that pertains to this case. Just watched it again & am posting for those who may have missed it. Good video.

[video=youtu;ARVH6-V5iLo]http://youtu.be/ARVH6-V5iLo[/video]

 

[whiskers]

With talk of body movers, etc. it got me thinking. Do we think they went back the next day to see if she was still there? There was either 2.5 or 3 full days until DE was arrested. Theoretically they had time to go check to see if she was there.

 

[Elle*Bee]

I don't think NK is a fan of crime shows. She doesn't know how to keep her mouth shut or how to cover up the crime. She also apparently believed she wouldn't end up in jail, despite participating in the planning of the murder (so her understanding of the law is extremely limited). I believe she is eager to please when it comes to men. I think DE did things with Nicole an adult isn't supposed to do with a minor. Nicole was talking about him being her boyfriend to anybody who would listen. So he freaked out about ending up in jail and decided to get rid of her. And NK was eager to please.

I agree. If she is a fan of crime shows, she apparently hasn't learned a single thing.

That said, I've enjoyed Forensic Files, Cold Case Files and some of the other reality based crime shows on NatGeo. My son, a.so a night owl, would come out of his room to watch them with me. I'd usually let him but I'd send him into the kitchen to fetch a snack if a particular scene was too violent or too sexually explicit.

His fascination, we hope, will lead him into a career where he might actually be helpful. He's currently majoring in forensic anthropology, but seems to have a knack for fingerprint identification (did you know that fingerprints run through the computer program AFIS - I'll have to check that acronym - are also reviewed by several human fingerprint reviewers? I didn't.)

I remember when my son was a senior in high school and touring colleges, he was interviewed by a department head in the Forensics/Criminal Justice dept. he told my son that forensic work isn't like what you see on tv shows like CSI, NCIS, Bones, etc. my son said he'd never seen those programs (I like them). They started discussing the shows my son did watch and the department head said, oh then you DO have a good idea of what the job entails. He (the department head) sounded relieved.

 

[Betty P]

http://triblive.com/news/westmoreland/5923978-74/knife-weapon-someone

“It's an up-close-and-personal weapon" intense anger, fear and a desire to watch others suffer,
“When you're plunging the knife into someone's chest, you see the fear in the victim's eyes,
The physical motion of stabbing someone isn't easy,
“With the amount of bones in the chest cavity, the odds of striking clean like that are pretty low,” he said. “That why you see a lot of flesh wounds on the arms and face.
People see a knife and they twist, they defend themselves. That thrust took anger.”

Yes, rage and a desire to see someone suffer. I think we're going to find DE to be a real sick sociopath who somehow developed a sadistic personality. In the short amount of time that he knew her, it's hard to understand how DE could have developed so much hate and anger towards NL. Something more than anger and rage had to be fueling his will to commit such an awful kind of killing. IMO, he had imagined doing it for a long time and was fulfilling a sick fantasy. When thinking about it was no longer enough, he had to carry it out.