GUILTY VA - Nicole Lovell, 13, murdered, Blacksburg, 27 Jan 2016 #8

[lisette]

If this B.B. knew about all this, and did nothing, she seems to be a very dangerous person as well...I mean, who knows about a fellow young girl being betrayed and killed like NK, and continues to communicate with the perp as he explains his clean-up procedure????

I'm replying to my own quote because I just noticed that I wrote NK when I meant NL....sorry

 

[enelram]

I'm sorry, but which is it? First you partly blame the parents saying what he did was 'behavioral/moral/spiritual and not mental' -
apparently from the way they raised him...

But then in your very next post call him a 'typical narcissistic sociopath,' both of which ARE mental illnesses.

I would hesitate to blame the parents in any way, as we really have NO idea what his home life or upbringing was like from the bits & pieces we've seen in the media or how we've seen his parents act in public.

Blame DE for what HE did... and NK for whatever her role was in Nicole's murder. I would be careful not to project your hatred of DE onto his parents. Shame him, not his parents.

We all pray our children never commit any crimes, especially heinous crimes like this, but we have no control over their choices in life.

I personally feel like DE is a sociopath, though not any less guilty of his crimes, and very much deserving of punishment.

Babies are not born as 'narcissistic sociopaths. Babies LEARN to be sociopathic narcissists from their upbringing and
parenting mistakes.
Babies and very young children are like a blank slate. It's the pieces of the puzzle what is put on that slate that
makes up the whole adult child. Whether parents are poor role models, or they are negligent or abusive- all of this
combines to form the personality of the adult child.
Most parents today who have raised deviant children have made the above mistakes and failed to correct little
problems when the child is little.
IMO, there is too little time and education by parents spent in raising their children. Parents allow children to raise themselves with too little effort by the parents in building good adults.

 

[Wyle_E_Coyote]

Psychopath or sociopath?

Sociopaths tend to be nervous and easily agitated. They are volatile and prone to emotional outbursts, including fits of*rage. They are likely to be uneducated and live on the fringes of society, unable to hold down a steady job or stay in one place for very long. It is difficult but not impossible for sociopaths to form attachments with others. Many sociopaths are able to form an attachment to a particular individual or group, although they have no regard for society in general or its rules. In the eyes of others, sociopaths will appear to be very disturbed. Any crimes committed by a sociopath, including murder, will tend to be haphazard, disorganized and spontaneous rather than planned.
-snip-
Psychopaths, on the other hand, are unable to form emotional attachments or feel real empathy with others, although they often have disarming or even charming personalities. Psychopaths are very manipulative and can easily gain people’s trust. They learn to mimic emotions, despite their inability to actually feel them, and will appear normal to unsuspecting people. Psychopaths are often well educated and hold steady jobs. Some are so good at manipulation and mimicry that they have families and other long-term relationships without those around them ever suspecting their true nature.
-snip-
It is believed that psychopathy is the largely the result of “nature” (genetics) while sociopathy is more likely the result of “nurture” (environment).
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ps...eeds/201401/how-tell-sociopath-psychopath?amp

Sociopaths are normally less emotionally stable and highly impulsive – their behaviour tends to be more erratic than psychopaths. When committing crimes – either violent or non-violent – sociopaths will act more on compulsion. And they will lack patience, giving in much more easily to impulsiveness and lacking detailed planning.

Psychopaths, on the other hand, will plan their crimes down to the smallest detail, taking calculated risks to avoid detection. The smart ones will leave few clues that may lead to being caught. Psychopaths don’t get carried away in the moment and make fewer mistakes as a result.
-snip-
psychiatrists use the term psychopathy to illustrate that the cause of the anti-social personality disorder is hereditary. Sociopathy describes behaviours that are the result of a brain injury, or abuse and/or neglect in childhood.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/thecon...ersus-sociopaths-what-is-the-difference-45047

Scientists are still not sure what causes APD. Some recognize two forms of psychopathy, primary and secondary, each with its own set of causes [PDF] and manifestations. Traumatic childhoods and difficult home environments can definitely contribute, but there’s also a clear physiological component. A genetic variant called MAOA-L has been linked with an increased risk of violent and aggressive behavior, and brain scans of people with APD have shown low activity in areas related to empathy, morality, and self-control.
-snip-
For proof, just look at neurologist James Fallon: Fallon has spent decades researching*the anatomical side of so-called psychopathy. His research has helped identify areas of difference in the brains of people with APD. One day in 2005, Fallon was looking at the brain scans of people with APD, as well as those of people with depression and schizophrenia. Sitting on his desk at the same time were a stack of scans from Fallon’s family members taken as part of a study on Alzheimer’s disease.

“I got to the bottom of the stack, and saw this scan that was obviously pathological,” he told Smithsonian. The brain in the image appeared to belong to a psychopath—but the scans at the bottom of the pile belonged to his family members. Shaken, he decided to look up the code on the scan to determine whose brain he was looking at.

It was his own brain.
http://mentalfloss.com/article/87337/whats-difference-between-psychopath-and-sociopath

Psychopath, born that way. Not the fault of his parents.



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[Elainera]

Doesn't that make her somehow guilty of knowing after the fact, I'm not sure what the term would be. I feel very sorry for David's mother. His father looked so stern. David asked in the police station if his name was out in the press, how vital it was to keep it out of the press if he were ever to land a good job or something like that. I wonder if it was impressed upon him that making a mistake was the end of the world and he killed to cover his mistakes rather than own up to them. I think the detectives did an amazing job, and so fast, too. Hats off to them. The FBI cracked it quick, well done. I assume NK is going to be found guilty quickly now, will David testify against her do you think?

bbm Failure to report a crime maybe?

I agree with you, I'm surprised she hasn't been charged with something. The text exchange is totally coldhearted.

 

[wyome]

I had this sick feeling yesterday that DE would take his own life. I never have these thoughts, so it hit me hard. Not for sympathy for him, but for his parents.

I agree that they have shaped the way he became to a certain degree. And I'm sure that they are guilt-ridden and will live with constant suffering of playing back over and over scenes from the past that they could have handled differently. I feel immense sadness for them.

 

[enelram]

Wyle E.,
From your article:

Fallon believes his relative success may be the result of growing up in a healthy, stable environment with a lot of support. He was raised in a loving home, which he says, may have helped him overcome some of his ugliest impulses."

"Since finding all this out and looking into it I've made an effort to try to change my behavior. I've more conciously been doing things that are considered 'the right thing to do' and thinking more about other people's feelings."

IMO-
If Fallon had not been born into this family, he could well have become an acting out psychopath who acted violently
or maliciously on his impulses. Instead someone in his family guided him and 'parented' him into channeling his
personality into a productive field and productive life.

Many successfull CEO's, politicians and world leaders also score high on test for psychopathy. But like Fallon they
channeled their personalities into productive lives.

The parents did, indeed, guide these CEO's politicians and world leaders.

 

[simplymadness]

I had this sick feeling yesterday that DE would take his own life. I never have these thoughts, so it hit me hard. Not for sympathy for him, but for his parents.

I agree that they have shaped the way he became to a certain degree. And I'm sure that they are guilt-ridden and will live with constant suffering of playing back over and over scenes from the past that they could have handled differently. I feel immense sadness for them.

I've actually had the same thought this weekend. Well, since the end of the trial.


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[razzledazzle]

IMO, there needs to be charges here. She knew his story about Nicole. She knew a Nicole was missing. She even asked him if it Nicole. He talked to her about murder, and that he had killed Nicole. Yet, instaed of telling an adult, calling police, blocking him from all communications, she tells him to bring protection and she wants to see him!!!! Dangerous!

Do we know that she didn't report this?

 

[Elainera]

Do we know that she didn't report this?

No we don't know that. But she did invite him over and asked him to bring "protection", so she clearly wasn't freaked out and disgusted by what he had done. Or did she really believe his yarn that NL (paraphrasing) tripped over a broken branch and cut her own throat? Was she very naive perhaps? Could be but I kinda doubt it. The whole exchange is just so void of any empathy.

 

[flourish]

I'm sorry, but which is it? First you partly blame the parents saying what he did was 'behavioral/moral/spiritual and not mental' -
apparently from the way they raised him...

But then in your very next post call him a 'typical narcissistic sociopath,' both of which ARE mental illnesses.

I would hesitate to blame the parents in any way, as we really have NO idea what his home life or upbringing was like from the bits & pieces we've seen in the media or how we've seen his parents act in public.

Blame DE for what HE did... and NK for whatever her role was in Nicole's murder. I would be careful not to project your hatred of DE onto his parents. Shame him, not his parents.

We all pray our children never commit any crimes, especially heinous crimes like this, but we have no control over their choices in life.

I personally feel like DE is a sociopath, though not any less guilty of his crimes, and very much deserving of punishment.

Aren't narcissism and sociopathy personality disorders as opposed to mental illnesses?

 

[JohnTate90210]

No we don't know that. But she did invite him over and asked him to bring "protection", so she clearly wasn't freaked out and disgusted by what he had done. Or did she really believe his yarn that NL (paraphrasing) tripped over a broken branch and cut her own throat? Was she very naive perhaps? Could be but I kinda doubt it. The whole exchange is just so void of any empathy.

In regards to your last sentence, early on we heard Nicole was subject to bullying at school. If B.B. is 15 now, then she would have very possibly been in Nicole's grade. One wonders just what all was going on and rumored around school. Didn't one child report Nicole's involvement with an older person and the school ignored it? And we've heard other students found DE on Facebook even though he'd tried to hide his identity from Nicole (her Instagram has a screen capture from her phone that shows him as "David A"). Obviously there was gossip going around and nothing much was being done (except her father taking her phone away).

 

[watergirl62]

Wyle E.,
From your article:

Fallon believes his relative success may be the result of growing up in a healthy, stable environment with a lot of support. He was raised in a loving home, which he says, may have helped him overcome some of his ugliest impulses."

"Since finding all this out and looking into it I've made an effort to try to change my behavior. I've more conciously been doing things that are considered 'the right thing to do' and thinking more about other people's feelings."

IMO-
If Fallon had not been born into this family, he could well have become an acting out psychopath who acted violently
or maliciously on his impulses. Instead someone in his family guided him and 'parented' him into channeling his
personality into a productive field and productive life.

Many successfull CEO's, politicians and world leaders also score high on test for psychopathy. But like Fallon they
channeled their personalities into productive lives.

The parents did, indeed, guide these CEO's politicians and world leaders.

I get what you are saying...

I am pretty certain DH's ex is on the spectrum. My SD exhibits quite a few of these traits. Scary. [emoji102]

Example: The pathological lying. Its mind-blowing. So... I encouraged my SD to compete in Imprompu Speaking (told her she needed to get involved in one school activity with groups and competition).

She really enjoys it because 1) she is the center of attention when she is speaking (this is huge) and 2) she gets recognition and kudos for doing something that comes naturally.

Nature, nuture. Yes and yes.


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[JohnTate90210]

"Through the FBI extraction, Eisenhauer visited websites called human decomposition explored, Texas State University's body farm collects skeletons for research, how long does it take the cops to look for you if you run away, how long and hard do cops look for runaways.

The FBI also did an extraction of a computer found in Eisenhauer's dorm room. It shows a number of Google searches that happened on January 24th, 2016, before Lovell disappeared. Those searches include, lakes near Blacksburg, Virginia, how to destroy something, how do destroy something completely, most creative ways to destroy things, how long does it take to burn a body, how hot does gasoline burn, how hot does kerosene burn, how hot does rubber burn, how hot does ammonia burn, what melts through flesh, how hot does it have to be before flesh burns, what temp does bones burn, how long does it take to get a third degree burn, what is used to ID a body, how does Dexter get rid of bodies, tranquilizer, knockout drugs, and medicine that makes you fall asleep instantly."

http://www.wdbj7.com/content/news/472974783.html

It seems so crazy that he did such searches and drove down to North Carolina, but then only took the body slightly off the road. He bragged about going overboard or doing overkill. Doesn't it seem illogical they didn't take the body out further?

 

[BUF]

In regards to your last sentence, early on we heard Nicole was subject to bullying at school. If B.B. is 15 now, then she would have very possibly been in Nicole's grade. One wonders just what all was going on and rumored around school. Didn't one child report Nicole's involvement with an older person and the school ignored it? And we've heard other students found DE on Facebook even though he'd tried to hide his identity from Nicole (her Instagram has a screen capture from her phone that shows him as "David A"). Obviously there was gossip going around and nothing much was being done (except her father taking her phone away).

I had also heard that Nicole's friends had found him on FB. Here's an MSM link...

http://www.fredericksburg.com/news/...cle_a017ba91-7626-58ee-81cc-296a293774f2.html

Eisenhauer had messaged a friend to say that he was trying to end a relationship with a young girl but that his attempt to present a false identity had failed and the girl's friends had found him on Facebook.

 

[BUF]

It seems so crazy that he did such searches and drove down to North Carolina, but then only took the body slightly off the road. He bragged about going overboard or doing overkill. Doesn't it seem illogical they didn't take the body out further?

Add that to the not so swift list.

But, it was NK who told them where Nicole's body was.


This may be why he was searching for lakes near Blacksburg found on his computer...

http://www.galaxgazette.com/content/breaking-eisenhauer-pleads-no-contest-murder

Eisenhauer told B.B. he was worried because when they sent him off to college, his parents told him “not to mess up.”

He began talking to B.B. about ways to “get rid of his problem.”

“One idea that B.B. recalled was Eisenhauer’s suggestion that he drive his car into the water with Nicole in it; he was a good swimmer, so he would swim out and leave Nicole in it,” said Pettitt.

He eventually told B.B. that he was going to do it, and his phone would be off; the next day he said Lovell was dead.

 

[Considering]

It seems so crazy that he did such searches and drove down to North Carolina, but then only took the body slightly off the road. He bragged about going overboard or doing overkill. Doesn't it seem illogical they didn't take the body out further?

I'm trying to be delicate but it's difficult given the topic. I imagine that with rigor mortis and the weight of a dead body, it was an arduous to move her any distance. Additionally, Eisenhauer is a dimwit.

 

[wyome]

It seems so crazy that he did such searches and drove down to North Carolina, but then only took the body slightly off the road. He bragged about going overboard or doing overkill. Doesn't it seem illogical they didn't take the body out further?

It seems illogical that he would move the body at all. Why not take a victim far out and do it the woods? No need to clean blood from a car.

And I can't get over the search of "how does Dexter get rid of bodies". I mean, if that doesn't scream immaturity, I don't know what does. Let alone telling multiple people what you're doing/about to do.

I know the law considers DE an adult, but this is one messed up kid that killed another kid for no good reason (to me). So friggin' tragic.

 

[fred&edna]

Illogical dimwits.

Let's have lunch and discuss murder.

GPS tracker on the car.

All the computer, phone, app evidence.

DE's DNA under Nicole's nails while Clorox wipes used to clean the body were "saved" by NK.

Illogical dimwits... oxymoron?

 

[VanillaRose]

Thank you for the info, I meant psychopath.

Psychopath or sociopath?

Sociopaths tend to be nervous and easily agitated. They are volatile and prone to emotional outbursts...
-snip-
Psychopaths, on the other hand, are unable to foSome are so good at manipulation and mimicry that they have families and other long-term relationships without those around them ever suspecting their true nature.
-snip-
It is believed that psychopathy is the largely the result of “nature” (genetics) while sociopathy is more likely the result of “nurture” (environment).patience, giving in much more easily to impulsiveness and lacking detailed planning.

 

[VanillaRose]

Aren't narcissism and sociopathy personality disorders as opposed to mental illnesses?

There seems to be a lot of overlap, but I had read this before:

Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) and Antisocial Personality Disorder (APD) are two distinct mental disorders and traditionally not typically diagnosed in tandem by clinicians.

Is It Narcissism or Sociopathy? -
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/evil-deeds/201707/is-it-narcissism-or-sociopathy