VA - Scott Fricker, 48, & Buckley Kuhn-Fricker, 43, slain, Reston, 22 Dec 2017 *daughter’s bf charged*

[LaborDayRN]

And whether the mom was right or wrong in being vocale in her concerns about him, there is no excuse for him to kill her! I don't even understand this conversation.

^This^

 

[JaneEyre]

Re BBM and JMO

I agree and I think most all of us agree the slain mother probably thought she was doing the right thing. In hindsight it is easy to see that her actions were likely the trigger that set the boyfriend off on a killing rampage.

We have the luxury of seeing that now but the mother probably thought the worst that could happen was maybe some nasty text messages or nasty phone calls. She obviously did not expect the boy would go on a killing rampage. If she had been able to see the future then she likely would have changed her approach.

If I read things right then from the boys point of view I could almost see why he may have flipped out.
-Permanent loss of his "love".
-Possibly or even likely he could get kicked out of his school because of the letter that was sent to the school which was the same school the girl went to.
-Possible shaming by his schoolmates as news spread to other schoolmates.
-Embarrassment with his own parents since they were also directly informed by the slain mother.

From his point of view his life was ending as he knew it.
I know that is an extreme view of what he may have felt but based on his extreme murderous actions it is probably pretty close to what he felt.

This case is something we can learn from in that we really dont know how other people are going to react when interacting with them in a negative way.

Regarding the BBM part which relates to this case in the way we all have to sometimes deal with others in a negative way.
I constantly have discussions with my wife about how to behave on the road when other drivers do perceived "wrongs". My approach which I firmly believe is the best way to stay safe is to usually bite my tongue and ignore things for the most part with an occasional honk of the horn if the situation really deserves that or to honk for safety reasons to make sure the other driver knows I am there on the road with them. My wife's approach which I have a very hard time convincing her is not the right way is to become hostile with the other driver and yell out the window or give a certain finger gesture. I have tried to explain to her that one of these days she will do that to the wrong person who is having a very bad day and things will not turn out good. She seems to agree but I fear when I am not with her that she resorts back to her approach

I guess the point is that people can be unpredictable and even hostile at times especially when it is a negative situation so IMO we need to be cautious in our approaches with dealing with people when the situation is a negative one. The mother had the right idea to protect her child but obviously nobody wanted things to end up with dead people so there had to be a better way.

I can only agree with permanent loss of love here. His Neo Nazi views were already known in his community from his previous actions. Alerting the school would only give officials a heads up about potential issues with him. They would likely not have resulted in action by the school that would become known to his peers unless he chose to tell people about his Twitter. The school officials were not going to blast that out to students, so embarrassment and shaming by peers was not a realistic outcome. Further, if he was actually concerned that his peers would shame him for this behavior, he would not have put a swastika in the community lawn earlier.

I also don't see how, given that his previous actions were already known to his parents, that he would be embarrassed by her telling his parents about his Twitter. If this was a concern, he would have stopped this behavior after his neighbors first reported him.

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[rsd1200]

We can just agree to disagree. I think she could have gone about it differently. Everything I have seen quoted in how she approached the situation shows me she used her lawyering approach instead of her concerned parent approach to get her point across. I personally feel it was what led to this horrific conclusion. JMO


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It's a tough call for parents. I was that kid who was dating that guy (everything that my parents weren't and I was raised not to be). I ran off and married him three weeks after I turned 18. My father, unbeknownst to me, had had a little talk with him about a year before, that if he took me across a state line, that he'd hunt him down, and have the law put the hammer down, as far as could be allowed. Dad felt that if he put his foot down that I'd bolt. At that point in my life, I probably would have.

 

[Inthedetails]

Re BBM and JMO

I agree and I think most all of us agree the slain mother probably thought she was doing the right thing. In hindsight it is easy to see that her actions were likely the trigger that set the boyfriend off on a killing rampage.

We have the luxury of seeing that now but the mother probably thought the worst that could happen was maybe some nasty text messages or nasty phone calls. She obviously did not expect the boy would go on a killing rampage. If she had been able to see the future then she likely would have changed her approach.

If I read things right then from the boys point of view I could almost see why he may have flipped out.
-Permanent loss of his "love".
-Possibly or even likely he could get kicked out of his school because of the letter that was sent to the school which was the same school the girl went to.
-Possible shaming by his schoolmates as news spread to other schoolmates.
-Embarrassment with his own parents since they were also directly informed by the slain mother.

From his point of view his life was ending as he knew it.
I know that is an extreme view of what he may have felt but based on his extreme murderous actions it is probably pretty close to what he felt.

This case is something we can learn from in that we really dont know how other people are going to react when interacting with them in a negative way.

Regarding the BBM part which relates to this case in the way we all have to sometimes deal with others in a negative way.
I constantly have discussions with my wife about how to behave on the road when other drivers do perceived "wrongs". My approach which I firmly believe is the best way to stay safe is to usually bite my tongue and ignore things for the most part with an occasional honk of the horn if the situation really deserves that or to honk for safety reasons to make sure the other driver knows I am there on the road with them. My wife's approach which I have a very hard time convincing her is not the right way is to become hostile with the other driver and yell out the window or give a certain finger gesture. I have tried to explain to her that one of these days she will do that to the wrong person who is having a very bad day and things will not turn out good. She seems to agree but I fear when I am not with her that she resorts back to her approach

I guess the point is that people can be unpredictable and even hostile at times especially when it is a negative situation so IMO we need to be cautious in our approaches with dealing with people when the situation is a negative one. The mother had the right idea to protect her child but obviously nobody wanted things to end up with dead people so there had to be a better way.

From his point of view, he also could have reacted by:

* Whoa, I'm being mischaracterized. You have me all wrong, people!
* I was only joking - sorry about that.
* I'd better lay low with my beliefs and play it cool.
* I'd better lay low with my beliefs and go under different names online.
* I need new friends who get me.
* My girlfriend's parents are wack and I'm going to throw eggs at their house.
* My girlfriend's parents are wack and she's not worth it - I'm moving on.
* This town is wack - I'm outta here.

He had non-violent options.

jmo

 

[rsd1200]

Without more of the context of the email it’s hard to say what she asked to be done. Again, I just feel things could have been gone about differently. To stop her daughter from seeing and talking to him, texting his parents and emailing the school in rapid succession could have sent this boy into a psychotic rage. I don’t think her parents realized the potential danger they were in when they chose to go about addressing the situation in the manner they did.

That’s all I’m going to say. I’ve made my point and I respect others opinions. I agree to disagree.


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Unless there is trouble at the school, the school can't do much other than be aware of his belief system and to be alert to some of the things that might happen, at the school, b/c of those beliefs. I almost see this as an odd sort of familicide. His world was closing in, they were the cause as to why he was losing her, and his life didn't matter after that. This is obviously a very disturbed child. He could have mowed the swastika just to be an @ss, to rile his parents. They probably made him mow the space, maybe even as punishment, he was peeved about it, and decided to show them, and the HOA, and mowed the symbol in there. (Mine mowed a giant ICP, or hatchetman outline, to tick me off, at around that age, because he didn't want to mow. I don't remember which it was, but the yard looked like crap.) They were obviously having a tough time with their kid.

 

[courtney2662]

I can only agree with permanent loss of love here. His Neo Nazi views were already known in his community from his previous actions. Alerting the school would only give officials a heads up about potential issues with him. They would likely not have resulted in action by the school that would become known to his peers unless he chose to tell people about his Twitter. The school officials were not going to blast that out to students, so embarrassment and shaming by peers was not a realistic outcome. Further, if he was actually concerned that his peers would shame him for this behavior, he would not have put a swastika in the community lawn earlier.

I also don't see how, given that his previous actions were already known to his parents, that he would be embarrassed by her telling his parents about his Twitter. If this was a concern, he would have stopped this behavior after his neighbors first reported him.

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His parents were apparently aware of his neo-nazi views, the clothing he wore for one thing, and apparently there was incident where he was suspected of mowing nazi symbol in community lawn. Neighbours went to the parents and they said they were getting him help. Troubled Teen had access to a gun? There are pictures of him on-line wearing neo-nazi tee-shirt (not providing link because both the daughter of murdered couple and the boy friend are minors). The tee-shirt reads Meine Ehre Heisst Treue, the symbol is a totenkopf ('My Honour is Loyalty')

The mother, grandmother staged an intervention with the daughter, given discovery of secret twitter accounts spreading Neo-Nazi hate slogans and lies as the relationship was too involved, the b/f too filled with hate, prejudice and was influencing their daughter too much. The daughter supposedly repeated one of the false "historical facts" provided by the b/f that the Jews were responsible for their own demise during WWII.

 

[yurena]

This is such a tragedy on so many levels.

So many teenagers say and act on things they do not actually believe in only to look cool in front of their peers and most of the times as a cry for help. For what I have read on the newspaper articles, he wrote derogatory comments about Jews, gays and many other communities... this teenager was all over the place, did not know what he really stood for and clearly needed the support of a well-balanced family.

The fact he turned the gun on himself makes me think he knew what he did was evil and completely wrong.

Another tragedy that could have been avoided if people paid more attention to their children and their early signs of struggle in an already incredibly difficult period of their lives as teenagehood is. Imho.

 

[Lilibet]

Personally, I would be very interested in having a conversation with a teen who is a neo Nazi. It’s so far out of my realm of experience that it’s hard to imagine why they choose that path. Part of conversing is listening respectfully even if what they are espousing is horrible. I suppose I could come up with a psycho/social theory on my own, but I’d really like to hear their reasons from their own lips. Was this kid just spouting stuff he’d heard or had he done some careful reading and some critical thinking. It’s hard to imagine anyone with those beliefs having any rational thoughts, but I’d like to know how his mind works and why he is so afraid of and angry at Jews. I guess I hope that listening might help defuse the fear and anger.

 

[Wyle_E_Coyote]

Unless there is trouble at the school, the school can't do much other than be aware of his belief system and to be alert to some of the things that might happen, at the school, b/c of those beliefs. I almost see this as an odd sort of familicide. His world was closing in, they were the cause as to why he was losing her, and his life didn't matter after that. This is obviously a very disturbed child. He could have mowed the swastika just to be an @ss, to rile his parents. They probably made him mow the space, maybe even as punishment, he was peeved about it, and decided to show them, and the HOA, and mowed the symbol in there. (Mine mowed a giant ICP, or hatchetman outline, to tick me off, at around that age, because he didn't want to mow. I don't remember which it was, but the yard looked like crap.) They were obviously having a tough time with their kid.

BBM

My son's private Fairfax County school (Not the same one as these kids) would have expelled him immediately. They hold the kids responsible for their social media and other outside activity.

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[courtney2662]

This is such a tragedy on so many levels.

So many teenagers say and act on things they do not actually believe in only to look cool in front of their peers and most of the times as a cry for help. For what I have read on the newspaper articles, he wrote derogatory comments about Jews, gays and many other communities... this teenager was all over the place, did not know what he really stood for and clearly needed the support of a well-balanced family.

The fact he turned the gun on himself makes me think he knew what he did was evil and completely wrong.

Another tragedy that could have been avoided if people paid more attention to their children and their early signs of struggle in an already incredibly difficult period of their lives as teenagehood is. Imho.

It really underscores the need to have guns, all guns, any guns, in a home secured and locked away, especially if there's an adult or child with emotional issues. The b/f was pictured wearing Nazi slogans on tee-shirts, posting neo-nazi hate on social media sites. Neo-nazi's preach a lot of violence, a lot of hate. I strongly believe that every crime involving a gun should identify where/how/when the gun used was obtained.

 

[borndem]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca...0acf0774e64_story.html?utm_term=.51d85fc8b726

Potter said residents decided to send an emissary to the family’s home to discuss the swastika a couple days after it was discovered. Potter said the teen’s parents admitted he had mowed the symbol into the grass. She said they were aware of his behavioral issues and were getting him treatment.

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Thanks for the quote from the WaPo article, Wyle E. -- sadly, I don't have access to The Post, so I could not read the article -- so neighbors complained about his mowing a swastika in the lawn at his house? It sounds like he was a lit fuse, waiting to blow, IMHO. SMH.

 

[Jennifer17]

Thanks for the quote from the WaPo article, Wyle E. -- sadly, I don't have access to The Post, so I could not read the article -- so neighbors complained about his mowing a swastika in the lawn at his house? It sounds like he was a lit fuse, waiting to blow, IMHO. SMH.

Not his own house. In a community space in the estate he lived in. It seems the parent's didn't have much control over him. He should have been sent back and mowed the rest of it, but another of the residents did it. Even if he refused, his father should have fixed his son's mischief.

 

[rsd1200]

BBM

My son's private Fairfax County school (Not the same one as these kids) would have expelled him immediately. They hold the kids responsible for their social media and other outside activity.

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Were his posts that violent? I've not read them yet.

 

[Jennifer17]

Were his posts that violent? I've not read them yet.

z

I haven't read them either, but just by aligning himself with Neo-Nazis is implied violence to a group of people.

 

[kkdj]

Personally, I would be very interested in having a conversation with a teen who is a neo Nazi. It’s so far out of my realm of experience that it’s hard to imagine why they choose that path. Part of conversing is listening respectfully even if what they are espousing is horrible. I suppose I could come up with a psycho/social theory on my own, but I’d really like to hear their reasons from their own lips. Was this kid just spouting stuff he’d heard or had he done some careful reading and some critical thinking. It’s hard to imagine anyone with those beliefs having any rational thoughts, but I’d like to know how his mind works and why he is so afraid of and angry at Jews. I guess I hope that listening might help defuse the fear and anger.

I agree with this. One can't be helped if not understood.

 

[rsd1200]

z

I haven't read them either, but just by aligning himself with Neo-Nazis is implied violence to a group of people.

There's folks who think my views (which are in no way aligned with his) are extreme, and that folks like me have to be Godless Liberals, (I'm a follower of Christ, jftr), who are, for the most part, to blame, for the downfall of the United States, and why Starbucks doesn't have a Christmas Tree on their cups, in December, AND we are the violent ones.

 

[Jennifer17]

Never mind.

 

[thesensitivechild]

Terrible story. Won’t be surprised if computer logs show this young man was on 4chan /pol. This is where I can only assume his rhetoric. Isolated alienated youth who found a community and found purpose in the memeing, echo chamber, of a board that ultimately only propagates conspiracy. His reality in man kind was screwed and he bought what he was being sold. It almost seems like a form of being delusional/ hyper paranoia. Some of these people really come to think that the government or certain races etc are responsible for creating some other narrative that keeps the masses in the dark. Actually would be curious to know if this actually is what lead to how he developed certain views.


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[Jennifer17]

Terrible story. Won’t be surprised if computer logs show this young man was on 4chan /pol. Actually would be curious to know if they did. He was perhaps starting to, what is called “redpilling” their daughter.


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It used to be just 4chan, but now they are all over Reddit, Topix and all the other no holds barred sites.

 

[thesensitivechild]

It used to be just 4chan, but now they are all over Reddit, Topix and all the other no holds barred sites.

It is in the politically incorrect board of 4chan, what is called /pol, that you will read things that disturb, infuriate, repulse, confuse, and frighten you. This is where they tend to actually go as reddit is viewed as somewhat “liberal” (although I guess one could argue /pol is of the liberal ethos in that it does not “censor”...) and monitors hate speech. But I would not recommend going. Unless sociologically or psychologically you are curious to how these young (and old) people develop and share this thinking. It’s interesting and very depressing.

Seriously. Proceed with caution.


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