VERDICT WATCH - Sentencing of Jodi Arias - Break 2/27 thru 3/2 #2

[RadarLuv]

I still do not believe that she meant to wash that camera. Not in my opinion. It got tied up in the clothes after the struggle to get him back in the shower and she panicked when she couldn't find the camera, and left. I hate her but I don't think she was stupid enough to do that on purpose. She could have thrown in in a lake or buried in the desert or washed it somewhere else if that is what she really intended on doing.

She tried to destroy the camera because didn't need the pictures anymore.

All I am saying is that photography was important to her, the act of taking photographs. Photographing him when he found out that she won, that she was going to kill him, was probably part of her murder fantasy.

I am not saying that she wanted the pictures, I am saying she wanted to take photographs. She enjoys framing images and clicking the button.

Jodi really doesn't seem attached to objects, she didn't care about the car being repossessed or the house being foreclosed. She likes photographing experiences, her trips, weddings, she likes visual confirmation. She probably doesn't have enough of an emotional range to process things as she experiences them, she needs to analyze what happened and align her emotional response to what she sees.

At any rate, she wanted to see a photo of him when she told him she was going to kill him. After she killed him, she probably looked at that photo and enjoyed the power she had over him, then threw it in the washing machine because the moment was over, she had her thrill, she didn't want to get caught, and she had to get to Utah.

It is also possible the camera was in the bloody stuff she stuck in the washing machine and it was a mistake to wash it, she might have thought she put it in her purse to get rid of with the gun.

She likes that picture. In her police interview she said it was a good picture of him.

JA: Umm. I don’t know. There’s also a bit of morbid curiosity, I think. ((Crying) I just want to see the pictures. He showed me a good picture of him yesterday.

18:40
FO: Is it the one with him in the shower?

18:42
JA: He had water all over his face or something.

 

[RadarLuv]

Yep. I don't think they will ever forgive her. But I do think they will forget about her.

Good for them.

Respectfully, I disagree. Forgiveness involves someone who has done wrong and the person they have wronged. I understand about being free, that the crime doesn't stop you from living your life. But that is more like transcendence than forgiveness.

If Travis was my brother, I wouldn't want the pain and anger to eat me alive. Travis wouldn't have wanted that for his siblings either. If someone told me I have to forgive Jodi, odds are there would be some pretty harsh words about that.

 

[RadarLuv]

I agree. Some of this kumbaya stuff about forgiveness just doesn't work, for me anyways. I have a friend who took what her thought to be a one night stand home, but the guy he took home stabbed him, drove his dead body out to the country, cut him up and dumped him into a cattle grave them set him on fire. No remorse. I will never forgive him, but I had forgotten him....at least just until not when I was pondering the subject. I was just fine with not forgiving.

I too don't see why people say it's necessary to forgive someone to move on and release hate. I suppose it is about what you need to do. But personally, I agree that some things are not forgiveable. I would never forgive someone if they did to my loved one what Jodi had done to Travis. To me forgiveness is just an abstract concept that is really only about the individual person. Forgiveness can mean different things to different people.

 

[Val1]

Is it maybe that some can't picture TA having sex with JA after calling her the worst thing that ever happened to him? If I'm not mistaken, he in that same message tells her that she knows he ALWAYS takes her back. I'm not surprised he allowed her back into his bed that faithful day. The pictures don't look "staged for a sexy photo shoot" to me but more "okay we had sex, let's test out some settings on your camera".

The layout of his bathroom makes it hard for me to believe she stood there, so close to him, and took those pictures without him noticing. Chances are he was convinced by her to pose. It could be that he was forced to pose - (if she had a gun pointed at him, but that's opening a mother whole can of worms.)

A lot of people say she put the pictures on the camera but so far I haven't read a good reason as to WHY she would do that on the day she planned to murder him.

BBM - Actually no, what I'm saying, is she or possibly/probably TA had taken them OFF the memory card/stick, months before and the card had probably been tossed in the desk drawer until TA went to use his new camera and needed a memory card/stick for it.

Then that "old" memory card/stick had been used(lots of new pics, 90+?) which covered over what exif data had been left behind after the "old" deletions, leaving only the thumbprints buried deep in the unallocated spaces of the card.

Along comes JA wanting to take shower pics to "memorialize/blackmail" TA, not realizing that there are pics of her buried deep in the unallocated spaces on that card. In a panic after being confronted with the mess she had made and only wanting to get out of there before someone came home and caught her in the act, she deletes the shower pics and dumps the camera in the wash, believing there's nothing there to link her(if I'd done that I would have worn gloves, etc).

Iow's, without seeing the actual exif data that Det.M said he had been able to pull, or not, from all the pics he recovered, there's no way to verify that the time and date was indeed recorded by TA's camera and still fully viable, or whether Encase had pulled the date from the last photos taken(shower/murder) and had inserted that into the report for all of the recovered photos. That doesn't even get into whether those pics had been taken by a different camera and just copied onto that memory card as a "reminder" from JA of what TA was missing out on(would all the exif data had been copied over too in that case?).

 

[Nali87]

BBM - Actually no, what we're saying is she or possibly/probably TA had taken them OFF the memory card/stick, months before and the card had probably been tossed in the desk drawer until TA went to use his new camera and needed a memory card/stick for it.

Then that "old" memory card/stick had been used(lots of new pics, 90+?) which covered over what exif data had been left behind after the "old" deletions, leaving only the thumbprints buried deep in the unallocated spaces of the card.

Along comes JA wanting to take shower pics to "memorialize/blackmail" TA, not realizing that there are pics of her buried deep in the unallocated spaces on that card. In a panic after being confronted with the mess she had made and only wanting to get out of there before someone came home and caught her in the act, she deletes the shower pics and dumps the camera in the wash, believing there's nothing there to link her(if I'd done that I would have worn gloves, etc).

Iow's, without seeing the actual exif data that Det.M said he had been able to pull, or not, from all the pics he recovered, there's no way to verify that the time and date was indeed recorded by TA's camera and still fully viable, or whether Encase had pulled the date from the last photos taken(shower/murder) and had inserted that into the report for all of the recovered photos. That doesn't even get into whether those pics had been taken by a different camera and just copied onto that memory card as a "reminder" from JA of what TA was missing out on(would all the exif data had been copied over too in that case?).

The camera and Sony memory card was new though. Purchased after JA moved from AZ. So how could old pictures of them be on it?

Next to that, Jodi would have had to be a brunette.

What you're suggesting seems like a very complicated alternative when the fitness band around his arm (later found in the bathroom), Jodi's hair color, exif data, etc all point to the pics being taken that day.

The other explanations provided all seem to depend on MORE unproven things (manipulated exif data, other memory card etc) ttan the explanation provided in court.

 

[Nali87]

I am sorry to read about the tragedies that our dear members have been through. I have a great deal of compassion for victims. There are many ways of healing and moving on. What is right for me might not be right for you. And that's okay. I believe that it is very important for victims to feel validated and justified in their strong emotions of anger, revulsion etc. They have every right. However, my best friend thinks differently and occasionally reminds me that forgiveness has nothing to do with the perpetrator and everything to do with our own peace of mind. I disagree that one absolutely needs to forgive in order to move on. Right after the verdict, Travis’ friend Elisha said “"And it's important that we forgive Jodi, so she doesn't have that power to destroy our lives." To each his own, eh?

Travis’ family have not had the opportunity to maintain distance from the criminal---a crucial element in the healing process. I cannot imagine how it must feel to sit in the same room as Arias. That's rubbing salt on their horrendous wounds. I tell you, the second most disturbing thing (right after the autopsy photos) is seeing the look on Stephen’s face during trial. It haunts me still. Hopefully, we will have a verdict next week and Arias will be shipped off to prison for good. And, Travis loved ones can finally begin to mourn the loss of their beloved family member. I imagine that each family member will have his/her own way of healing from this unspeakable tragedy and that's okay. To each his own.

Yes, I agree!

 

[salberg7]

I am pleased the jury asked to look at the exhibits from the guilt phase. I hope they take a long hard look at Travis' autopsy pictures & crime scene pictures. Travis suffered a miserable death, at CMJA's hand. Think of the rage...she did that in two minutes!
I agree with katycoolady in it clearly appears the defendants get more opportunities to be acknowledged over the victim. And CMJA still "wins" either way here...if she gets the DP, she gets appeals paid for by the taxpayers, if LWOP, she will be able to get a "job", be out of her cell chatting and playing cards, three meals a day, etc.
More "rights" than Travis has, and his family. How this DT portrayed Travis during this trial was despicable. Abhorable. It should not be allowed and sets a bad precedent. The DT & the killer chose that path because they could! And what choice did Travis have as he raised his arms to defend himself knowing his life was ebbing away, what"choice" did the Alexander family have but to sit there at trial every day and listen to a bunch of lies? None. Yet the Alexander's sit there gracefully. While the Arias family post FB pics saying "going to reek havoc in Phoenix"(Angela Arias last week).
This while Travis is dead, murdered,slaughtered, and left to decompose in his own home. Disgusting.

 

[Wizzy]

Respectfully, I disagree. Forgiveness involves someone who has done wrong and the person they have wronged. I understand about being free, that the crime doesn't stop you from living your life. But that is more like transcendence than forgiveness.

If Travis was my brother, I wouldn't want the pain and anger to eat me alive. Travis wouldn't have wanted that for his siblings either. If someone told me I have to forgive Jodi, odds are there would be some pretty harsh words about that.

When you talk about someone asking you to forgive and there would be some pretty harsh words about that, there is the proof that the anger and negativity would still exist. No one says you can immediately forgive, it takes time, you have to go through different stages of grief, and everyone is different. You say it is more like transcendence than forgiveness. The good book says you have to forgive to be forgiven. It is written there for a reason. I don't believe their are exceptions. Everyone is different, everyone has there own opinions. Somewhere along the journey of being involved in a tragic incident, such as someone being murdered, or a wrongful death to someone you love, you have to move forward. If you don't, you just put one foot in front of the other and deal with life day after day, year after year and that anger is buried deep down but still exists. You have to get rid of it or it still comes to the surface now and then and affects your life. I chose forgiveness, and it was right for me and many, many people I have met with similar experiences. I truly hope TA's family and friends find that same freedom some day.

 

[east2west]

On the subject of Cougarluscious, being rehired. I am not surprised. I don't think the state cares about the 3 way calls, the tweets and/or the art sales. They wanted, above all, someone who could babysit the special snowflake, and keep her temper in check and her tantrums under control.

But at $55.00/hr ? Shes not produced one iota of mitigation.

 

[Luvrosco]

I apologize if this has been asked,but is the many,many days that JA was on on the stand part of the evidence this jury can see or read?

 

[DebinGA]

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?259961-Retrial-for-Sentencing-of-Jodi-Arias-5

If you go back to the link above, it takes you back to thread #5. The list is there of everything that was tweeted about the jurors in October 2014, during jury selection. There might be some info in thread #4 too. I bolded the ones who were put through and their info is above it. Looking back, the info Monica has is from the tweets. I tried to compare it to Monica's list and some of it makes sense, but it's been since October, so I apologize for not being able to be thorough this evening.

Well done, AngelWings. I noticed that the trauma nurse juror said she'd been a domestic violence victim between age 18-24. And the special needs teacher/aide described herself as "a very factual person". My overall impression now is that a unanimous DP verdict is very unlikely. Sounds like some juror/s are trying to lead the group in the right direction by asking for first trial info not presented in this phase iirc. Reading JA's first-trial testimony in search of "remorse" and JM's closing would be helpful.

 

[DebinGA]

I apologize if this has been asked,but is the many,many days that JA was on on the stand part of the evidence this jury can see or read?

I'm not sure. The 13th Juror court watcher said JM entered two hefty packets-exhibits into evidence during his cross of Geffner, one of which contained JA's testimony about the "TA was choking me unconscious testimony". JM asked Geffner to read from the trial transcript and reconcile what JA said on the stand with what she'd told him about the choking me to death incident later. So, a very pivotal part of JA's testimony is available to this jury.

 

[Wizzy]

Well done, AngelWings. I noticed that the trauma nurse juror said she'd been a domestic violence victim between age 18-24. And the special needs teacher/aide described herself as "a very factual person". My overall impression now is that a unanimous DP verdict is very unlikely. Sounds like some juror/s are trying to lead the group in the right direction by asking for first trial info not presented in this phase iirc. Reading JA's first-trial testimony in search of "remorse" and JM's closing would be helpful.

Wow! Thanks for this info. I wonder what kind of DV this juror experienced? Surprised they picked her to be a juror.
I think the verdict will be DP. I just don't see the remorse that most want to see.

Good Morning, btw!!!!

 

[DebinGA]

http://ktar.com/305/1776840/Legally-Speaking-Who-are-the-jurors-deciding-the-fate-of-Jodi-Arias

"One female juror admitted she saw coverage of the first trial "like everybody else" but she didn't follow it closely, she is a kindergarten teacher and barely knows how to use the Internet."

Could be this person was being grilled about her knowledge or participation in social media, and she answered quasi-in jest, "No, I can barely turn my computer on."

 

[DebinGA]

Wow! Thanks for this info. I wonder what kind of DV this juror experienced? Surprised they picked her to be a juror.
I agree with you, I think the verdict will be DP. I just don't see the remorse that most want to see.

Good Morning, btw!!!!

The trauma nurse also noted the autopsy pics wouldn't be a problem for her, as she views such atrocities daily (paraphrase). I'll be very surprised if this juror isn't very helpful to other jurors by separating JM's wheat from the DT's chaff.

 

[Wizzy]

The trauma nurse also noted the autopsy pics wouldn't be a problem for her, as she views such atrocities daily (paraphrase). I'll be very surprised if this juror isn't very helpful to other jurors by separating JM's wheat from the DT's chaff.

I agree. This nurse will let them know horrific it was and how much pain was suffered.

 

[Hope4More]

I'm not sure. The 13th Juror court watcher said JM entered two hefty packets-exhibits into evidence during his cross of Geffner, one of which contained JA's testimony about the "TA was choking me unconscious testimony". JM asked Geffner to read from the trial transcript and reconcile what JA said on the stand with what she'd told him about the choking me to death incident later. So, a very pivotal part of JA's testimony is available to this jury.

Enter the poster who definitely gets grumpy about Paul Sanders' lack of fact checking before stating things as fact. Only Paul Sanders said this jury will have her 18 days worth of testimony. I asked AZL about this days ago. Her reply was that there is no way of knowing, that both sides would have to agree to have the testimony admitted into evidence, and that transcripts of even a single day's testimony would be voluminous, perhaps enough to account for those stuffed folders Sanders assumed represented all 18 days.

A significant indication that the jury does NOT have all 18 days is that Nurmi objected to having the one part of one day of testimony admitted (testimony about where her hands were while Travis was "choking" her). Apply logic thereafter. Why would Nurmi agree to have all 18 days' worth admitted? Having just reviewed some of what she said on the stand, I'd think it would be his worst nightmare. There are many many discrepancies between the story she told then and what has been presented to this jury. No way having this jury seeing al her testimony benefits JA.

 

[Hope4More]

Well done, AngelWings. I noticed that the trauma nurse juror said she'd been a domestic violence victim between age 18-24. And the special needs teacher/aide described herself as "a very factual person". My overall impression now is that a unanimous DP verdict is very unlikely. Sounds like some juror/s are trying to lead the group in the right direction by asking for first trial info not presented in this phase iirc. Reading JA's first-trial testimony in search of "remorse" and JM's closing would be helpful.

Hearing more juror info makes you think the DP is unlikely? why so?

 

[josie1986]

god i really can't get away from this trial even when i try. i had a dream last night that they'd reached a verdict and i was about to miss it...i woke up in a panic thinking it was real :floorlaugh:

this has totally fried my brain.

i have a drs app tomorrow at 4.40 which is 9.40 az time...i hope if they reach something tomorrow im home in time. id have totally let myself down if after all these years i missed it all coming to an end. i might see if i can switch to an earlier app just not to even risk it :sigh:

 

[Luvrosco]

I think she deserves the DP,but I'm not sure she'll get it. If she gets LWOP ,I know she'll eventually be out of solitary. I don't want this for her. She is so manipulative that I feel she will become a" popular" prisoner with the others. I know she loves the media and my fear is we'll still hear of her. I can see her doing shows like" Women Who Kill" on ID and trying to grant any interview she can finagle. My fear is somehow she'll manage to still be in our faces.