VERDICT WATCH - Sentencing of Jodi Arias - Break 2/27 thru 3/2 #2

[ScarlettScarpetta]

god i really can't get away from this trial even when i try. i had a dream last night that they'd reached a verdict and i was about to miss it...i woke up in a panic thinking it was real :floorlaugh:

this has totally fried my brain.

i have a drs app tomorrow at 4.40 which is 9.40 az time...i hope if they reach something tomorrow im home in time. id have totally let myself down if after all these years i missed it all coming to an end. i might see if i can switch to an earlier app just not to even risk it :sigh:

Ha. I get that. I think they are coming back on Monday with their verdict so I will be right here. I already did my shopping and my house is clean and I am just going to be watching Netflix and refreshing!
I called out of work for the OJ verdict. I had nightmares about that case for months.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Well done, AngelWings. I noticed that the trauma nurse juror said she'd been a domestic violence victim between age 18-24. And the special needs teacher/aide described herself as "a very factual person". My overall impression now is that a unanimous DP verdict is very unlikely. Sounds like some juror/s are trying to lead the group in the right direction by asking for first trial info not presented in this phase iirc. Reading JA's first-trial testimony in search of "remorse" and JM's closing would be helpful.

We know nothing about their deliberations. And If I was a DV victim I would be pissed that she is claiming dv when the facts show that this is not true.

 

[DebinGA]

Hearing more juror info makes you think the DP is unlikely? why so?

It was reading obvious-to-me "red flag" statements from several potential jurors and then later seeing a couple of them made it into the final 19. I could be mistaken, but one that caused me particular concern was a 30-40 yo male (with a goatee iirc) who sounded like a "Once I make up my mind there's no changing it" and "I start with a verdict of life and may or may not budge depending on the testimony I hear" (all my paraphrase of what I remember reading through AngelWing's excellent compilation). If #13 was that juror, I'm glad he's an alternate.

 

[Wizzy]

And it's not necessary to forgive. If we want to continue to hate someone, we have that right. The OP was trying to imply that the Alexanders need to forgive Jodi. NO they don't ever, IMO!!! I still to this day hate my uncle- he created the hatred when he molested me- and he's been dead a few years now, but I don't let it define my life, I have my freedom. I will continue to bash him, I will NEVER forgive him, he doesn't deserve it. The only reason I don't publicly name him is that I don't want his stepdaughter to try to sue me for libel.

Forgiveness, is a gift to yourself. It frees you from the past, past experiences, and past relationships. It allows you to live in the present time. When you forgive yourself and forgive other, you are indeed free.

I hope someday your opinion changes and you can be free.

 

[RickshawFan]

You absolutely have that right, but your uncle is dead. You're alive, and the hate in your heart hurts you, not him. I'm so sorry. No one should have to live with that. We will just have to agree to disagree. I hope you are one day free from this.

There is no way to make a valid statement about what is in someone's heart or how to fix it. We have no knowing what someone else feels, has felt or will feel.

Emotions just are: they are not bad or good. This can be said for sadness, happiness, gladness, anger, and hatred, all of them. To suggest that a person should get rid of some but keep others shows lack of understanding about feelings.

It is insulting when a person suggests another should be free of a feeling (such as hatred) in order for them to "move on", be happy, or have a full life.

It creates resentment when another person claims they can and, what's more, know best how to resolve the imagined problem.

The concept of "forgiveness" is rooted in a specific set of religious beliefs that the majority of the world (let alone the majority of the US) does not subscribe to.

 

[josie1986]

ive got to the gas can testimony finally....still satisfying watching her squirm knowing shes been caught.

i hope youre right about a verdict tomorrow scarlett. the longer they take the less hopeful i am for the DP

 

[DebinGA]

Juror questioning showed several said JA's "remorse" would be very important to them.
I read somewhere that Nurmi's closing addressed JA's remorse by reading from her secret testimony transcript: http://lmgcorporate.com/kpho/news/jodi-arias-transcripts/10-30-14.pdf [see pp. 5-7 for even an inkling of remorse] That JW started JA's secret testimony with it shows its importance to jurors, but it was a major fail imo. It might have been Nurmi's reading those paragraphs aloud that caused the Alexanders to leave the courtroom. I never read JA's second day testimony, but I doubt she threw remorse in, as I think it concerned her happy Fall 2006 with her beloved Travis, not the later imaginary abuse.

 

[ohreally]

It was reading obvious-to-me "red flag" statements from several potential jurors and then later seeing a couple of them made it into the final 19. I could be mistaken, but one that caused me particular concern was a 30-40 yo male (with a goatee iirc) who sounded like a "Once I make up my mind there's no changing it" and "I start with a verdict of life and may or may not budge depending on the testimony I hear" (all my paraphrase of what I remember reading through AngelWing's excellent compilation). If #13 was that juror, I'm glad he's an alternate.

Jodi seemed to try and make eye contact with one juror. Also, the day she went sleeveless seemed to be to manipulate at least one juror. I'm hoping it was for the one male juror that is now an alternate. I can just picture her hissy fit over that. All that time wasted planning to manipulate the one juror to have him end up as an alternate. I don't know which juror she was eyeing, but I like to think it was this one.

About the clothes that were brought in. If I understood it correctly, the other day when the jurors had questions, she was not in the courtroom. Then later she was in the courtroom in her stripes with no jurors present. I think the clothes were brought in because if the jurors have questions she still has the right to be there in her street clothes. The defense team had forgot to have a change of clothes ready for her just in case there were juror questions so they brought them in that day in case there are more questions. My question is, once the verdict is reached will she be in her jail stripes for the reading of the verdict? IMO she should be in stripes, because what she is wearing will not effect the juries decision. The decision will of already been made. She will not be happy to have to wear stripes in her last grand finale before being shipped off to Perryville.

 

[Hope4More]

Forgiveness, is a gift to yourself. It frees you from the past, past experiences, and past relationships. It allows you to live in the present time. When you forgive yourself and forgive other, you are indeed free.

I hope someday your opinion changes and you can be free.

(((((((((((LinasK)))))))))))). I admire your strength and forthrightness.

 

[tcrockett]

WAT said teacher, then the others say special needs and the other one said she just helps the teacher. I don't know if she is actually THE teacher based on the tweets from 10/7. WAT was the only one who actually said "teacher" then they went on to say the other things, like "she works with special need kids and she assists the lead teacher."

i thought the same thing. She is likely a teachers assistant or aide...paraprofessional, I think they are really called now

 

[Ricki]

The jury can ask her questions and she would have to answer them. That I did not know. During the deliberations are there court watchers in the court? Media? I am wondering if she would come out an answer considering she is so 'unstable' and fears for her life, or would her defense team be her mouth piece once again. In my opinion, I think it is a good sign the members of the jury, as far as I know, have not asked her questions and maybe that is because the don't believe a word of her dribble. Just a thought, on this snowy, Sunday morning.

 

[DebinGA]

http://ecmweb.com/site-files/ecmweb.com/files/archive/ecmweb.com/mag/705ecmINMATESpic1.jpg
Pic of young, female Perryville inmates preparing for well-paying electrician jobs when they leave: 1) JA will never leave Perryville 2) JA's loosey-goosey, chest-baring, low v-necked, 2 sizes too big Estrella stripes will be replaced by neck high, bright orange, togs she'll wear every day for the rest of her life. http://a.abcnews.com/images/US/abc_jodi_arias_kb_130620_wmain.jpg

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

The jury can ask her questions and she would have to answer them. That I did not know. During the deliberations are there court watchers in the court? Media? I am wondering if she would come out an answer considering she is so 'unstable' and fears for her life, or would her defense team be her mouth piece once again. In my opinion, I think it is a good sign the members of the jury, as far as I know, have not asked her questions and maybe that is because the don't believe a word of her dribble. Just a thought, on this snowy, Sunday morning.

They can not just ask her questions. They can ask questions of a witness. If she testifies yes, they can ask her questions as they did in the first trial. It was clear to me by their questions that they did not believe her.

 

[MeeBee]

When you talk about someone asking you to forgive and there would be some pretty harsh words about that, there is the proof that the anger and negativity would still exist. No one says you can immediately forgive, it takes time, you have to go through different stages of grief, and everyone is different. You say it is more like transcendence than forgiveness. The good book says you have to forgive to be forgiven. It is written there for a reason. I don't believe their are exceptions. Everyone is different, everyone has there own opinions. Somewhere along the journey of being involved in a tragic incident, such as someone being murdered, or a wrongful death to someone you love, you have to move forward. If you don't, you just put one foot in front of the other and deal with life day after day, year after year and that anger is buried deep down but still exists. You have to get rid of it or it still comes to the surface now and then and affects your life. I chose forgiveness, and it was right for me and many, many people I have met with similar experiences. I truly hope TA's family and friends find that same freedom some day.

See, I don't believe in the good book, so I don't find forgiveness as important as someone who is religious would. And I don't find forgiveness necessary to move on with your life and to try and forget.

We also have no idea what's going on with the Alexanders or what's happening in their hearts and would certainly never judge them or anyone for not wanting to forgive someone. But we don't even know what they jave chosen or will choose. I find the word forgiveness to be a hollow term. Is it even real? Imo, people can move on withoit forgiving.

I also find phrases like "I hope they find peace" and "find freedom" to be hollow as well. When this trual is over, they will have the opportunity to truly move on, to forget about their brother's killer and maybe even forgive, the less they are forced to be in the courtroom with people who continue to murder their brother. They've been dealing with this trial since 2013 and with his killer for seven years.

 

[MeeBee]

It was reading obvious-to-me "red flag" statements from several potential jurors and then later seeing a couple of them made it into the final 19. I could be mistaken, but one that caused me particular concern was a 30-40 yo male (with a goatee iirc) who sounded like a "Once I make up my mind there's no changing it" and "I start with a verdict of life and may or may not budge depending on the testimony I hear" (all my paraphrase of what I remember reading through AngelWing's excellent compilation). If #13 was that juror, I'm glad he's an alternate.

Sounds like he was, he #13 had a goatee. A lot of people liked him but...I think I agree he sounds like he may have been a hard sell.

 

[BritsKate]

(((((((((((LinasK)))))))))))). I admire your strength and forthrightness.

I absolutely agree. A very relevant Psychology Today blurb:

The Nature of Forgiveness

Mustering up genuine compassion for those who have wronged us, instead of allowing anger toward them to eat away at us, is the course of action recommended by most psychologists. An exception to the belief that burying the hatchet brings peace to the soul may be sexual abuse: Some victims of these crimes are empowered when given permission to not forgive.

My husband is a now-retired mental health nurse who specialized in older adults. Many of those adults lost spouses, children, siblings and were told by those around them (to include social workers) that there was a timeline on their grief. Part of his job was teaching them it was okay to grieve as long as they needed to and for some people this will be much longer than 'average'. I see forgiveness as a lot like grief. There just isn't a right or wrong way to go about healing - it's a process that's going to be different for many people.

Some people find peace in forgiveness but others find power in apathy. And for a lot of people, anger is necessary as part of the healing process. And some of us (me!) need years to process. JMO and FWIW

https://www.psychologytoday.com/basics/forgiveness

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

See, I don't believe in the good book, so I don't find forgiveness as important as someone who is religiois would. And I don't find forgiveness necessary to move on with your life and to try and forget.

We also have no idea what's going on with the Alexanders or what's happening in their hearts and would certainly never judge them or anyone for not wanting to forgive someone. But we don't even know what they jave chosen or will choose. I find the word forgiveness to be a hollow term. Is it even real? Imo, people can move on withoit forgiving.

I also find phrases like "I hope they find peace" and "find freedom" to be hollow as well. When this trual is over, they will have the opportunity to truly move on, to forget about their brother's killer and maybe even forgive, the less they are forced to be in the courtroom with people who continue to murder their brother. They've been dealing with this trial since 2013 and with his killer for seven years.

Forgiveness is not about the other people. IT is about your own feelings. If people live in bitterness and anger it can destroy them mentally and physically. I believe in forgiveness and I think while it may have religious connotations it doesn't have to at all.
I don't think people can tell other people they have to forgive because it is something that comes from inside.
I think forgiveness is just about letting go and not letting that person's actions control your life.

I don't know the Alexanders at all. I can not imagine the grief and pain this has caused them and what they have been through. But I can imagine for them it does not feel over, or like they can let Travis rest yet because this debacle is still going on and they have been skewered over and over by JA her lawyers and their lies.
I hope that at some point they can remember TA without remembering JA.

 

[MeeBee]

Forgiveness is not about the other people. IT is about your own feelings. If people live in bitterness and anger it can destroy them mentally and physically. I believe in forgiveness and I think while it may have religious connotations it doesn't have to at all.
I don't think people can tell other people they have to forgive because it is something that comes from inside.
I think forgiveness is just about letting go and not letting that person's actions control your life.

I don't know the Alexanders at all. I can not imagine the grief and pain this has caused them and what they have been through. But I can imagine for them it does not feel over, or like they can let Travis rest yet because this debacle is still going on and they have been skewered over and over by JA her lawyers and their lies.
I hope that at some point they can remember TA without remembering JA.

But this is why I feel forgiveness is a bit of an abstract concept. I don't think not living in bitterness and anger means you have to forgive someone who's done wrong to you. And I don't think it's anyone else's place to tell someone how to move on with their lives and how to go about their grief or to tell them if they haven't forgiven they have hate in their heart.

I think they already do remember Travis without remembering Jodi. Again, we can't know what's going on with them and I find these comments presuming to unecessary. Like I said before, if someone murdered someone I loved, then sat in court day in and day out telling the most vicious, hateful lies about them, nope, I would not forgive them. Ever. And that would be my right and I would be very upset if someone told me I have to forgive them or my life will never be good, or whatever the flowery ideas are. I would move on. I would remember that person for all the good and would not allow the killer to take up one more second of my life or any of my thoughts or create negativity in me. But I would not forgive them. That is something that's hard to do, I imagine when you have to sit in court every day with them. I imagine that is some part of why Steven stopped showing up. What a beat down.

 

[Night-owl]

On the subject of Cougarluscious, being rehired. I am not surprised. I don't think the state cares about the 3 way calls, the tweets and/or the art sales. They wanted, above all, someone who could babysit the special snowflake, and keep her temper in check and her tantrums under control.

Yes, but what they GOT is a person who has inserted herself in the middle of the drama, gleefully string the pot, while likely playing a role in the murderers financial schemes and "fan club". A mitigation specialist who tweets entirely unprofessional things in the middle of a trip where her client is fighting for her life. Who leaks sealed info to a reporter that knows how to feed her ego. All to the tune of $60 something an hour.

Forgive me if I think that is not state money well spent.

 

[Madeleine74]

Respectfully, I disagree. Forgiveness involves someone who has done wrong and the person they have wronged. I understand about being free, that the crime doesn't stop you from living your life. But that is more like transcendence than forgiveness.

If Travis was my brother, I wouldn't want the pain and anger to eat me alive. Travis wouldn't have wanted that for his siblings either. If someone told me I have to forgive Jodi, odds are there would be some pretty harsh words about that.

"Forgiveness" is a state of mind and it completely is about the person who's been wronged or hurt. Only the person who is experiencing the hurt and pain can choose to forgive or not forgive the perpetrator of the pain. There's nothing anyone else can do as those feelings lie totally within a person.

I remember watching a couple Oprah shows back in the day when she was still on the air and there were a few shows about people who lost someone to murder and the victim's family member (be it their mother or father or sibling or cousin) forgave the murderer and in a few rare cases even came to have a relationship of sorts with the murderer. I remember one was from a drunk driver who killed someone's son and the mother of the dead son visited the perp in jail and then continued to have a relationship with and visit that young man in prison.

Now, before anyone gets their panties twisted into a wad, I am NOT suggesting anyone here or anywhere else should or must forgive anyone who commits a crime, nor am I suggesting the Alexander family do that, or do anything at all. I'm merely saying forgiveness is totally within the control of the wronged one and is not controlled by anyone else.