North American Blue Jay
Active Member
- Joined
- Aug 13, 2018
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The mother’s Facebook videos mentioned that there is a sign-in/sign-out process. And that there is a book at the summit of some kind. That is how they know that she didn’t leave the park. I also believe this is how they partially verified the boyfriends timeline. That is also why I’m assuming that the police also have the log books. This would be vital evidence and could help the corroborate any witness accounts.
Well, I agree it's vital information, although I wouldn't put all faith in everything her mom says, and absent a very clear and unambiguous statement by the Sheriff's office or the parks dept about these registries. You may be correct, but they may also be trying to put pressure on people to come forward absent actual possession of registries for that day.
No doubt her mother is only heartbreakingly motivated by the desire to find her daughter, and find her alive, but frankly, I'm not seeing that she handles all information that well ... and I don't blame her. She's not a professional investigator, she's family, and they're tragically desperate to drive any available information out of the proverbial woodwork (which is why I would personally go public if I were a hiker there - because it's so heartbreaking). But.. for example, you mention the problems faced by this described "older man" shunning publicity. I think the mom expressed trepidation in one of her facebook videos (I've only seen some) about who he was - and this may have fueled some of the rumors about him. Though there was also a Fox reporter, for example, who probably has no background in wilderness hiking (more in entertainment gossip columns?) who ridiculously insinuated he was meeting Sayers at the summit for some kind of tryst.
I don’t put it out of the realm of possibility that someone saw her fall and didn’t report it. But I find it to be unlikely. You would be talking about a real psychopath that would do something like that. Again, not out of the realm of possibility, but I would classify it as less likely than other options like she went off the trail to go to the bathroom and fell. This would also explain why she would have been out of sight.
I totally agree this is likely a more ordinary wilderness disappearance ... she lost the trail going to the bathroom, she fell and had an accident somewhere, she's probably very close to areas they're already searched, etc.
But ... as to psychopaths - I don't want to freak people out - but they're actually more common than what's ordinarily believed. And nowadays, they tend to occur in higher ratios in certain kinds of activities or occupations. I'm sure most people hiking to Vesper Peak just love the outdoors, want to get some exercise and see the beautiful mountain scenery and views. But psychopaths could be easily drawn to these settings, as well, because they thrive on risk. So even though you have a much smaller number of people up there, you might find a psychopath up there, too, and more often than one might think.
Also, I mentioned, earlier, the person I knew many years ago who was abducted from a much more accessible trail, and another woman after her, who was not only abducted and raped, but murdered by him. Well, around that time, I spoke with someone who worked with the police on the second case; he told me that it was unbelievable how many people the police had listed for that rather small, mostly rural area, who they considered capable of committing these crimes. The man who did it was on that initial list - but they had something like 200 names. Now, these people aren't necessarily "psychopaths," which is a very specific category - but it also speaks to any criminal possibilities that are not something to just discount.
But again, don't get me wrong - I agree it's most likely something much more ordinary.
As for the summit witness, I previously posted an article that had the revised timeline at 3pm. This makes sense because the video has her approaching the summit around 1:30. Before the police said he saw her earlier, but they backtracked after the video came out. This was confirmed by A mod on their Facebook page. Either way, this is a massive failure of their public relations department in communicating a clear timeline for any witnesses.
My concerns for any witnesses that may have already come forward or any people that may have been on the trail that day is that they not be subjected to any kind of harassment, either well intentioned or not. These things can get out of control quite easily. If I hiked there that day, and had my information released, I would be concerned. Hopefully, if it does happen, requests for help will be well recieved and if someone says they don’t know something, they will leave them alone. But all it takes is one person to really cause a problem.
However, I have some genuine concerns more for the eye witness—the older man eating lunch—who saw her. There are people out there who find him suspicious and have even accused him. The mods have generally discouraged or removed such posts from their page, but I worry if they release his name that someone may be tempted to do something to him. He has already given his story to the police, and while a private investigator should interview him again to see if more information can be acquired, I wouldn’t want him to become the focus of any online campaign without any evidence of any wrongdoing.
I'm seeing the articles in this case as having been unusually inaccurate, in addition to social media. I'm pretty sure, though, in the Facebook post by the climber - who seems very reliable as a witness, that he reported seeing this older man at the summit at noon . And others have reported having information that the time line was reversed from 3 to noon, not the other way around. Meaning, again, he was NOT the last witness to see Sayers.
Whether or not there was another 3 PM witness, I don't know. I haven't heard about anyone in particular beyond this individual. Or whether he saw her a second time.
I read that the Scouts said they did not see Sayers on their way down. Which supports the theory she is still up there in the wilderness somewhere, along with the phone pings (assuming she still had her phone). This is also a good example as to why "not" seeing someone *is* important information for SAR. Where a witness was, and when - so they know she wasn't there at that time - and can eliminate certain scenarios. It's not air-tight, but it's supporting evidence, along with other supporting evidence. This is why anyone hiking that day shouldn't assume - "Well, I didn't see her or see anything, so why should I bother going forward? I can't offer anything important to this investigation." Yes, they could.
I agree it's unfortunate this older man was maligned, and he certainly has the right not to go on social media or contact the family - in my opinion, he met his responsibilities by contacting the Sheriff - but oddly enough, this also shows the faultiness of the belief that you necessarily protect yourself by not stepping forward publicly - and when, as you pointed out earlier, his name will probably be known at some point. For, when he didn't step forward, people became paranoid and began to imagine all kinds of things about him. But .. assuming the noon timeline is correct, his account is corroborated by the climbers - who report that she just went down from the summit by herself (not "she went down the wrong way," etc - as was dramatically intoned by - not social media - but, a news channel).
I think there's a few places where hikers can take wrong turns and find themselves in a bind of sorts trying to get out of certain areas. I didn't read, however, with any degree of convincing accuracy that someone actually saw her taking any of these wrong turns - or was in a location where they could see it. This older man - unless he saw her again - seems to have seen what the climber saw - she just went down from the summit. This was noon- and by 1:30 she was filmed by Middleton at this snow field. She was not heading to the Vesper Peak summit (although people probably can do it this way). She was heading to this group of boulders than run between Vesper and Sperry, and closer to Sperry. She had already been to the Vesper Peak summit. That's what I'm understanding. The trail to Vesper Peak is a dry walk in the summertime. That's why hikers go there in the summertime. Because you can't just walk up to it during other seasons the way you can during the summer. During summertime, you don't have to traverse some steep mountain of ice and snow and boulders to get there.
I posted earlier a video Middleton took at 2 PM, presumably from the top of these boulders. This is the area she was heading towards - and it is a risky endeavor .. why you see another hiker in the 1:30 PM video slip, fall and grab (perhaps desperately) on to the foot or ankle of another hiker. They were both just ahead of Sayers. That's what she was going to go up. The 2 PM video gives you an idea of how very steep it is.
So, someone needs to speak with Middleton about what he saw next, after he took the 1:30 PM video. And .. exactly where he went next with respect to this boulder saddle. Where he filmed next .. at 2 PM.
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