WA WA - Samantha Sayers, 28, Vesper Peak, North Cascades, 1 August 2018

[sasha17]

It's starting to get colder in the mountains overnight now. It was a low of 42 degrees last night in Darrington, the closest town with a reporting weather station. It would have been colder up in the mountains.

 

[zecats]

It's starting to get colder in the mountains overnight now. It was a low of 42 degrees last night in Darrington, the closest town with a reporting weather station. It would have been colder up in the mountains.

There’s a season that’s available to searching up there I imagine. I remember the case of lost hiker Matthew Greene in the Sierra Nevada mountains. Searchers could only look for him during several months. Sadly, after 5 years, he still has not been found.

 

[Phantasma2624]

It’s the perspective of the person who taped it I believe. And @North American Blue Jay That’s the poster where I first saw the video. Sam was following behind another couple where one had fallen and was reaching out to the person in front. Again these are just my thoughts and I see where the confusion comes from.

I can't find the original posted video again, but based on the information the family and the sheriff's office has released, this was on the trail toward Vesper Peak. This was part of the evidence that they used to show that she had approached the summit, and what called the witness's timeline (as originally expressed by law enforcement) into question. That is, how did the witness see her at noon when she didn't get there until after that? It was after this, law enforcement issued a correction to their press release. The witness then said he saw her descend toward Vesper Lake, which would put her in the area between Vesper and Sperry. This is where all the "descended in the wrong direction" talk comes from, and why they were so heavily focused on this area during the initial search. It only really makes sense if she was videotaped approaching Vesper, seen by the witness, then seen descending toward Sperry. He also said he saw her near the lake later.

I remember the original post by the user you mentioned, but I still can't reconcile their information with the fact that the video describes her approaching Vesper at 1:30. It would have been impossible for the witness to see her. If she wasn't approaching Vesper, this means that she was seen approaching a summit twice (once at Vesper and once wherever else), but that information isn't reflected in any official reporting. This is what has me the most confused about the timeline.

 

[MntnHiker]

[Respectfully shortened to respond to one of the points made]

One of the things this story has brought home for me about wilderness hiking is bringing along one of these Garmin Locator Devices I'm just reading about. The authorities can locate you down to your exact coordinates and one poster reported that he can text with his wife, which gives her peace of mind, and it also allows him to change a pick-up time or location.

Yes, those are awesome, but I also respect that they are pricey and many require you to not just buy the device but pay either monthly or yearly for a subscription. I would invest in one if I was thru-hiking or even going on a multi-day backpacking trip. I am a day hiker and don't know that other day hikers would want to (or for some even be able to) afford the cost. For example the SPOT Satellite GPS Messenger is $150 just to purchase it, plus whatever the subscription costs.

Obviously if I knew I would be in peril, I would say the $150+ subscription is worth it, but 99.8% of the time (my made up stat!) that you are on the trail, you won't need it. If you can't afford that cost and most likely won't need it, I can see day hikers especially not investing in one.

 

[zecats]

I can't find the original posted video again, but based on the information the family and the sheriff's office has released, this was on the trail toward Vesper Peak. This was part of the evidence that they used to show that she had approached the summit, and what called the witness's timeline (as originally expressed by law enforcement) into question. That is, how did the witness see her at noon when she didn't get there until after that? It was after this, law enforcement issued a correction to their press release. The witness then said he saw her descend toward Vesper Lake, which would put her in the area between Vesper and Sperry. This is where all the "descended in the wrong direction" talk comes from, and why they were so heavily focused on this area during the initial search. It only really makes sense if she was videotaped approaching Vesper, seen by the witness, then seen descending toward Sperry. He also said he saw her near the lake later.

I remember the original post by the user you mentioned, but I still can't reconcile their information with the fact that the video describes her approaching Vesper at 1:30. It would have been impossible for the witness to see her. If she wasn't approaching Vesper, this means that she was seen approaching a summit twice (once at Vesper and once wherever else), but that information isn't reflected in any official reporting. This is what has me the most confused about the timeline.

I hear what you’re saying. Another confusing thing is the two hikers in the video commenting about why she and the other two were going up there. It didn’t sound like it was part of the trail as they had been up and back down to that point already.

 

[zecats]

Jared Middleton Here is video. @Phantasma2624 Are we talking about same video then?

 

[Suglo]

I hear what you’re saying. Another confusing thing is the two hikers in the video commenting about why she and the other two were going up there. It didn’t sound like it was part of the trail as they had been up and back down to that point already.

Everything I read says that the “actual” trail does not have snow on it in August which is why it’s a popular one yet this video shows her and that other couple trudging along in the snow. Just another “fact” which is murky to those of us who haven’t been up there.

 

[Phantasma2624]

Jared Middleton Here is video. @Phantasma2624 Are we talking about same video then?

Thanks! Yes. This is the same video. I took a look through the comments and the only mention of the location was that it was near Vesper Peak. This was made by the boyfriend Kevin Dares. This man also had other videos from the other side of the peak, but no sign of Sam in those.

 

[zecats]

Everything I read says that the “actual” trail does not have snow on it in August which is why it’s a popular one yet this video shows her and that other couple trudging along in the snow. Just another “fact” which is murky to those of us who haven’t been up there.

Exactly. That too. And why would the two hikers in the video question her and the other two going up there? Rather incredulously, in fact.

 

[zecats]

Thanks! Yes. This is the same video. I took a look through the comments and the only mention of the location was that it was near Vesper Peak. This was made by the boyfriend Kevin Dares. This man also had other videos from the other side of the peak, but no sign of Sam in those.

Yes that! And the fact that Vesper Peak Trail is not snow covered in the summer.

 

[sasha17]

There’s a season that’s available to searching up there I imagine. I remember the case of lost hiker Matthew Greene in the Sierra Nevada mountains. Searchers could only look for him during several months. Sadly, after 5 years, he still has not been found.

Yes, for sure. In the winter, they only plow the highway part way up there and close it with a locking gate so vehicles can't pass. Once that happens, they won't be able to search unless they walk in past the gate (this would add several miles to the trip) or go in via helicopter.

 

[Suglo]

Thanks! Yes. This is the same video. I took a look through the comments and the only mention of the location was that it was near Vesper Peak. This was made by the boyfriend Kevin Dares. This man also had other videos from the other side of the peak, but no sign of Sam in those.

He (Jared Middleton) has quite a few publicly available videos posted on FB of his trip up to Vesper Peak. Stunning views and footage but also so many places she could have stumbled and fell. There were quite a few people up on that trail on August 1st. Sad that no one saw or heard anything.

 

[Fiddlehead]

I hear what you’re saying. Another confusing thing is the two hikers in the video commenting about why she and the other two were going up there. It didn’t sound like it was part of the trail as they had been up and back down to that point already.

Vesper Peak would definitely still have snow fields to cross most years in early August, the high point is over 6000 feet.

 

[i'm someone]

Comments have been snipped to respond to certain points.






I hadn't thought of that! I could definitely imagine this happening. She might go to take a picture or a selfie, drop the phone, and then try to get it. This could explain the damaged phone and/or why she would have gone "off the trail" so to speak. But, please correct me if I am wrong, if she did have to climb down to get it, would she leave her hiking poles behind somewhere? It would seem that they would be in the way if you were trying to reach or climb to a phone.

I think the weirdest thing about this whole search is that absolutely no gear of hers has been spotted.

 

[zecats]

Vesper Peak would definitely still have snow fields to cross most years in early August, the high point is over 6000 feet.

You are correct. This description, also posted earlier, describes a steep snowfield just below the summit, which also is avoidable if one chooses. Vesper Peak — Washington Trails Association

 

[Suglo]

You are correct. This description, also posted earlier, describes a steep snowfield just below the summit, which also is avoidable if one chooses. Vesper Peak — Washington Trails Association

Good find! Her mother just did another live video and said she knows her daughter is alive whether 30 days have passed or 50 days have passed. She also alluded to the fact that experts who tell her things don’t know what they are talking about and don’t know her daughter. It’s hard to watch

 

[kgreg2529]

Good find! Her mother just did another live video and said she knows her daughter is alive whether 30 days have passed or 50 days have passed. She also alluded to the fact that experts who tell her things don’t know what they are talking about and don’t know her daughter. It’s hard to watch

Aww

 

[MsFacetious]

There’s a season that’s available to searching up there I imagine. I remember the case of lost hiker Matthew Greene in the Sierra Nevada mountains. Searchers could only look for him during several months. Sadly, after 5 years, he still has not been found.

We still haven't found a boy after 14 years in the Uninta's here. It's amazing sometimes you find them within days and sometimes they are lost forever.

Yes, those are awesome, but I also respect that they are pricey and many require you to not just buy the device but pay either monthly or yearly for a subscription. I would invest in one if I was thru-hiking or even going on a multi-day backpacking trip. I am a day hiker and don't know that other day hikers would want to (or for some even be able to) afford the cost. For example the SPOT Satellite GPS Messenger is $150 just to purchase it, plus whatever the subscription costs.

Obviously if I knew I would be in peril, I would say the $150+ subscription is worth it, but 99.8% of the time (my made up stat!) that you are on the trail, you won't need it. If you can't afford that cost and most likely won't need it, I can see day hikers especially not investing in one.

It's similar to avalanche beacons. My family has always been very into snowmobiling. We carry avalanche shovels, we carry emergency blankets, first aid kits and extra food and water. However we do not carry beacons. The reason being that only about 5% of our time is in an area where avalanches are even a possibility... and we avoid those areas at high risk times. So for us, it would not be worth the cost since the risk is so low.

Good find! Her mother just did another live video and said she knows her daughter is alive whether 30 days have passed or 50 days have passed. She also alluded to the fact that experts who tell her things don’t know what they are talking about and don’t know her daughter. It’s hard to watch

I don't watch the videos so I appreciate the synopsis. I understand not wanting to give up hope and that is fine. I am just afraid that she might alienate those who do want to help, for fear that they may end up getting bashed next...

 

[Phantasma2624]

Good find! Her mother just did another live video and said she knows her daughter is alive whether 30 days have passed or 50 days have passed. She also alluded to the fact that experts who tell her things don’t know what they are talking about and don’t know her daughter. It’s hard to watch

Denial is a strong emotion. Without a body, I’m not sure that she will ever accept that Sam is gone, even if the odds are against her. By no means am I suggesting that she stop searching and give up. But by not considering the possibility, she may miss valuable time and resources that are better able to locate a body.

That’s the problem with that page, I think. They don’t even offer the space to propose additional resources like cadaver dogs, because they feel like that implies Sam has passed away. I know her mother thinks that she is strong, and that may be true, but there are some things that even strong people have no control over.

However, I don’t agree with the people that are just coming straight out and telling the mother she is dead. Her family must process this in their own time and way, and if you can’t stand that, then don’t go to their Facebook page. There’s been a few people that just go to the page to say that the mother is deluding herself. But to me that serves no purpose other than to hurt someone who is already at one of the lowest points imaginable. That being said, I hope if the family got any leads such as cadaver dogs that could handle the terrain, they are giving them the same amount of weight as other resources.

A body in the wilderness is not easy to spot, and scavengers could have moved it miles by now. There are crews that are dedicated just to this that could be of assistance.

Personally, I would be very surprised if she were still alive. That being said, I would welcome it 100%.

 

[Suglo]

Denial is a strong emotion. Without a body, I’m not sure that she will ever accept that Sam is gone, even if the odds are against her. By no means am I suggesting that she stop searching and give up. But by not considering the possibility, she may miss valuable time and resources that are better able to locate a body.

That’s the problem with that page, I think. They don’t even offer the space to propose additional resources like cadaver dogs, because they feel like that implies Sam has passed away. I know her mother thinks that she is strong, and that may be true, but there are some things that even strong people have no control over.

However, I don’t agree with the people that are just coming straight out and telling the mother she is dead. Her family must process this in their own time and way, and if you can’t stand that, then don’t go to their Facebook page. There’s been a few people that just go to the page to say that the mother is deluding herself. But to me that serves no purpose other than to hurt someone who is already at one of the lowest points imaginable. That being said, I hope if the family got any leads such as cadaver dogs that could handle the terrain, they are giving them the same amount of weight as other resources.

A body in the wilderness is not easy to spot, and scavengers could have moved it miles by now. There are crews that are dedicated just to this that could be of assistance.

Personally, I would be very surprised if she were still alive. That being said, I would welcome it 100%.

100o% agree with you. I didn’t know people were going to the page and telling her she was dead. How awful! I may feel that she is gone but I would never go there to post that. It’s not our place but I would hope she would listen to the experts. She doesn’t have to believe them but use all the resources available no matter what they may imply.