Identified! WA - Snohomish Co., WhtFem 516UFWA, 15-22, hitchhiker, Aug 1977 - Lisa Roberts

[kpdx]

Again, height is off but there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of precise info about Sarah:

https://www.findthemissing.org/cases/5091/9?current_page=case_information

 

[kpdx]

new MP: http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/2893dfnm.html

front tooth chipped line SCJD. Brown hair, brown eyes. I don't know about growing a foot and a half ish from 12-20 but darn that photo sure looks really close.

thoughts?

 

[CarlK90245]

new MP: http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/2893dfnm.html

front tooth chipped line SCJD. Brown hair, brown eyes. I don't know about growing a foot and a half ish from 12-20 but darn that photo sure looks really close.

thoughts?

Her facial features are very similar (nose, eyebrows, jawline). As for growing a a foot an a half in 8 years, it's certainly possible. - Its just that it's such a shot-in-the dark. From 12 to 20, she could have grown up to be just about any of our white female UID's with chipped (or missing) teeth and brown hair.

What I am wondering is what a 12 year old does to survive on the street. I suspect that she was kidnapped, and like so many other missing teens (or in this case, pre-teen), LE just classifies her as a runaway because they don't want to do the hard work to try to find her. The attitude is that she will return home eventually.

I sure wish that I could get a hold of that list of 49,000 names (and photos to go with them). Even if they didn't have photos, if you had it on a spreadsheet, you could narrow it down to a couple hundred names by filtering it down by age, race, height, and weight. With couple hundred or so names, you could probably narrow it down to 50 or so by cross-checking in Classmates.com, and eliminating anyone found there.

 

[kpdx]

i would love it if we could get a hold of that list, too. seems like that is a perfect opportunity for LE and websleuthers to work together!

i wonder if it would be worth trying to get a hold of someone and making the ask? as long as the list wasn't published...

it's staggering to wonder how many of those 49,000 people are actually still missing. with as many UIDs as we have in the public access databases, I wouldn't be surprised to learn it was more than 50%.

 

[Billylee]

I have to wonder why Rita Lorraine Jolly is not on the rule out list. Height is within reason, age good, hair color good. And she was not from that far away. There doesn't seem to be much out there about here. I wonder if there is no way to rule her out? No relatives left? Sure seems she should be on this rule out list.

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/2503dfor.html

I actually was looking at her and wondering if she could be Buckskin Jane Doe. And then I looked at the description of the shoes she was wearing when she disappeared.....they had "buckskin" heels. Coincidence?

 

[Billylee]

I don't see this report here so thought I'd post it. It's from November 09. For one thing, it points out that the shoe was a man's shoe, and it's MR SNEAKER, NOT MR. SNEEKER as is listed in other sites.

Her clothes include a tank top with no bra, men's Mr. Sneaker-brand size-7 shoes.

I wear a 7-8 womens and 5-6 men's, so I'm guessing that a size 7 men's would be a size 9 women's. This is one large-boned gal. I'm guessing somewhat athletic, the watch and shoes both point to that. I'm also guessing, and this is just a guess, that her breast size was small for her body (no bra). Was she a jogger, runner? Just throwing some ideas out there.

http://www.komonews.com/news/68827972.html

 

[CarlK90245]

I noticed that Karen Kamsch is on the rule-out list, ruled out on height. But I can't find her height listed anywhere. Maybe it is in NCIC.

But even if she is listed as too short at the age of 14, shouldn't they allow for the possibility that she was still growing between 1976 and August 1977?

 

[Billylee]

I noticed that Karen Kamsch is on the rule-out list, ruled out on height. But I can't find her height listed anywhere. Maybe it is in NCIC.

But even if she is listed as too short at the age of 14, shouldn't they allow for the possibility that she was still growing between 1976 and August 1977?

Good point Carl, there are several rule outs due to height. I wonder if they have a possibility of growth also? It also rules out Cynthia Ardina Leslie due to "circumstances". What the heck? She disappeared in Arizona, does that mean they ruled her out simply because this JD was in WA? I hope not.

 

[CarlK90245]

It also rules out Cynthia Ardina Leslie due to "circumstances". What the heck? She disappeared in Arizona, does that mean they ruled her out simply because this JD was in WA? I hope not.

I suppose they figured that since Cynthia disappeared along with her sister, and was very close to her family, and they appeared to have been abducted, she wouldn't be hitchhiking around by herself in Washington state. I agree that it's probably unlikely, but if that's their basis, they shouldn't be calling it a positive rule-out.

 

[kpdx]

thanks everyone for continuing to ponder the identity of SJD...

 

[McSpy]

Maybe this Jane Doe is from Canada?

 

[CarlK90245]

Maybe this Jane Doe is from Canada?

Marilyn Ann Byskal was mentioned above among those who have not been ruled-out. Her physical stats match, It seems to me that she would be worth a look, despite the seemingly inconsistent circumstances.

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/2416dfmb.html

She was presumed to have drowned in the fast-flowing Grass River, but given that there were no witnesses, and no body found downstream, it's possible that she left her group voluntarily for some unknown reason.

 

[McSpy]

Here is a possiblity: This girl was 14, when she disappeared from Maryland in 1976. She was known to runaway in the past. There is no height or weight listed here and they say that her hair was blond, but her picture suggests a light brown.

http://charleyproject.org/cases/k/kamsch_karen.html

 

[CarlK90245]

Here is a possiblity: This girl was 14, when she disappeared from Maryland in 1976. She was known to runaway in the past. There is no height or weight listed here and they say that her hair was blond, but her picture suggests a light brown.

http://charleyproject.org/cases/k/kamsch_karen.html

Karen Kamsch is on the rule-out list. But as I stated in post #127, the basis for the rule-out (height) is not rock-solid.

BTW, In my earlier comment, I presumed that the height rule-out was based on her being too short. But it could be that she was too tall.

 

[McSpy]

Karen Kamsch is on the rule-out list. But as I stated in post #127, the basis for the rule-out (height) is not rock-solid.

BTW, In my earlier comment, I presumed that the height rule-out was based on her being too short. But it could be that she was too tall.

You're right. I didn't realize that she was featured on Doenetwork.
Her height is very short.

I've noticed that there were not that many missing women over 5 foot 6 inches. I'm thinking she may have been a runaway, who left home a few years prior to her murder. Meaning, she had grown an inch or 2 after running away from home.

I find it odd that the 2 men who supposedly lived with Jane Doe did not report her missing. Maybe they thought she just took off, because she lived a transient carefree lifestyle.

 

[CarlK90245]

You're right. I didn't realize that she was featured on Doenetwork.
Her height is very short.

Thanks for pointing that out. I thought that I'd checked DoeNet when I was looking for her height, but obviously, I did not. I looked just about everywhere else.

And a year and a half is a short amount of time to grow from 5'0" to 5'8".

 

[Kodiak]

Hi, I just wanted to commend everyone here who has taken the time to try and help solve the identity of Snohomish Jane Doe. I'm a local, but do not remember it because I was only three years old at the time. But, in my teenage years, I do remember the first sketch of her on flyers and such when missing person cases were on the rise, and getting attention in the mid 80's. Now, locally, the case has been in the news the last two years, and everyone around here really hopes that she can be identified. I now live in South Mukilteo, which is just right across Paine Field from where she was found.

It's so sad that no one has come forward to identify her. After pondering her case the last few years, I got some impressions that have turned into little theories. I have a natural tendency to empathize with people and situations, sounds crazy, but here goes:

1. She was a runaway, just passing through alone, and may have been in the Everett area just a short time, perhaps days, to a few weeks. She may have been from Bellingham, or from a small town in Northeastern Washington.

2. I got the impression she was traveling, or planning to go south, to Southern Washington, or to Oregon. She was trying to avoid "big cities."

3. She was not from this area and had no friends and family that lived here, and could be an only child. Her parents at the time could have been deceased, or she was estranged from them. When she told Roth that she lived with two men, I believe it not to be true, but used that statement more as a defense mechanism and threat to try and show strength, and not impending fear and weakness. If she had lived with the two men, why wouldn't they have come looking for her? Or recognized her description and clothing in the news and papers? Which also leads me to...

4. If she was living with the two men, or did have a family here, it might be possible they never came forward because they too are wanted or have criminal pasts during that time, or they could have been in prison before or after her death, possibly out of state.

5. When she stated she wanted to go home, that could have meant an inexpensive motel that she was staying at in the area. A simple place to crash, perhaps off of HWY 99 which is not very far from where she was killed, which had (and still does) have these numerous motels.

Whatever the case, I think everyone is three steps closer to finding her name.

 

[Kodiak]

In Memory of Snohomish Jane Doe
Who left us on this day, 33 years ago
May this be the year of who you are
For the world to know.​

 

[kpdx]

bump.

no news to report, still keep up with new cases of MPs to compare with SJD.

i still have a hard time with Roth's story. something seems hinky about it.

we know this girl was pretty young, and she had never given birth. there is something there not jiving with what he recalls--the thing about her age/wrinkles, and the whole comment about her boyfriends (although that does sound like something i might have said at 14 or 15 if i was scared).

the overkill doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me either. any forensic experts out there want to explain why in a stranger to stranger situation there would be that level of rage/violence?

i would love to hear thoughts on these topics, so please chime in!

 

[kpdx]

i still think about SJD frequently. i have been mulling over new bits and pieces to try to discover some clue of her identity.

reading more about roth and his brother (who was also convicted of murder), roth was described as having an unusual attachment to his mother. other biographical interpretations of his history and family life seem to confirm, imo, that there was something besides fear motivating the crime.

if we are to accept that SJD was a pro, then it might be that he was impotent and she laughed at him sparking rage. this definitely would match up with similar psychologies.

i have always had a hard time with thinking of her as a pro primarily because i didn't understand why there had been no sexual contact. this scenario might possibly fill in the blanks.

if she was a pro, there might be some possibility in discovering her identity through other compiled lists of victims of pro serial killers who operated around that time period and in the region.

just a thought...