Identified! WA - Snohomish Co., WhtFem 516UFWA, 15-22, hitchhiker, Aug 1977 - Lisa Roberts

[CarlK90245]

I've run across this girl's casefile several times recently and have wondered if she has been checked against "Precious Doe".

Deborah Lee Tomlinson
https://www.findthemissing.org/cases/11096/3
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/t/tomlinson_deborah.html

The weaknesses are her listed height (5'5" according to NamUs), and the nearly four-year timeframe.

Charley Project has her listed at 5'0", so one of them is incorrect. BTW, there is also a 15 lb weight discrepancy between the two sources. (I e-mailed Meaghan at CP to see if her info is incorrect)

However, she was 16 at the time she disappeared, which means that she might have been still growing. We also don't know how recent her last height measurement was to her disappearance, so she might have been taller by that time.

And a four-year lag between running away and being murdered - with no contact with family or friends in the interim is not unheard of.

She looks quite similar to the drawing. Her age (plus 4 years) is about right, and the geographic comparison makes sense.

 

[CarlK90245]

(I e-mailed Meaghan at CP to see if her info is incorrect)

Meaghan replied and acknowledged that it was her error. The 5'5", 140lb stat from NamUs is correct. She says that she will fix it.

 

[kpdx]

Meaghan replied and acknowledged that it was her error. The 5'5", 140lb stat from NamUs is correct. She says that she will fix it.

Oh Carl, that's a brilliant possible! She must not be on doe. I don't often visit CP just because the searching can be rough go-ing...but I think you should submit her to LE.

NAMUS site has a much smaller rule out list: https://identifyus.org/cases/2128 so it would be nice to also get re-clarification on actual rule outs.

 

[CarlK90245]

The ME in charge of the Precious Doe case works the night shift. So I'll have to call her one night when I am up late.

 

[CarlK90245]

Oh Carl, that's a brilliant possible! She must not be on doe. I don't often visit CP just because the searching can be rough go-ing...

I prefer CP because they usually provide the most detail on the circumstances of disappearance, and they have more MP cases than any of the other sites. By my count, Charley Project has about 9300 MP cases on the site. NamUs has nearly 6400 publicly viewable cases.

I spent quite a bit of time putting all of the Charley Cases, plus most of the NamUs, DoeNet, and NAMPN cases that weren't in Charley on an Excel Spreadsheet. The spreadsheet contains over 12,000 cases, and the list can be filtered by name (or partial name), gender, age range, height range, city, state, and race, so I don't have the searchability problem that you have with Charley, DoeNet, and NAMPN cases.

 

[kpdx]

I started to do the same...but gave up because it was a daunting task. Is that something you would feel okay about sharing?

 

[CarlK90245]

I started to do the same...but gave up because it was a daunting task. Is that something you would feel okay about sharing?

Sure - PM me your e-mail address, and I will send you a copy later today. (I am away from my computer and am writing this message on my iPhone).

 

[SheWhoMustNotBeNamed]

34 years today. May she get her identity back soon.

 

[believe09]

Carl, anything going on with your possible? Her nose and eyes look very similar to me.

 

[believe09]

what if Roth lied about everything? After all he had a gun and could have coerced her easily. The story about two men might have been an attempt to indicate she was promiscuous or a professional.

I havent seen a picture of him-did she look like him? did he have family and is anyone missing from it? I dont know why I am asking...but something is rolling around in my brain.

 

[CarlK90245]

Carl, anything going on with your possible? Her nose and eyes look very similar to me.

I still haven't called it in. I should probably send in an e-mail, since I'm usually not thinking of it when I am up late enough to catch Deborah Hollis on the phone.

 

[believe09]

I still haven't called it in. I should probably send in an e-mail, since I'm usually not thinking of it when I am up late enough to catch Deborah Hollis on the phone.

Thanks Carl. You are an angel.

 

[CarlK90245]

I still haven't called it in. I should probably send in an e-mail, since I'm usually not thinking of it when I am up late enough to catch Deborah Hollis on the phone.

I just kicked off an e-mail to Deborah Hollis.

 

[kpdx]

what if Roth lied about everything? After all he had a gun and could have coerced her easily. The story about two men might have been an attempt to indicate she was promiscuous or a professional.

I havent seen a picture of him-did she look like him? did he have family and is anyone missing from it? I dont know why I am asking...but something is rolling around in my brain.

i think roth lied about most everything. i have been kicking this case around in my brain for years, and i think that given his backstory (and some insights from ann rule) plus the fact that he refuses now to be hypnotized he isn't being straight with the details.

i think the fact that he strangled then shot her showed rage, not fear.

i also think much of what he has said could be a misdirection.

there have been lots of theories posted suggesting she was a pro. i have a hard time with that because a). she had nothing on her (including extra clothing) b). she had good teeth and general health. c) she was young and tan and wearing sneakers. sounds like a girl hanging out at the lake with friends (or another possible I have been recently considering was visiting at a local summer camp) not a girl busy working the street. i too, believe, have thought that it is possible she was a family member (sister or cousin). the odd behavior of the family in the courtroom and beyond suggests the possibility of a cover up (again, ann rule).

for a picture of him: http://www.amw.com/fugitives/brief.cfm?id=69173

my concern is that her family may now all be deceased, and that any original reports are lost in the morass of records or have been disposed of.

i will keep my fingers crossed that Carl's possible matches.

if it doesn't, please keep her in your thoughts....and keep the conversation and ideas coming!

 

[ezio_mctavish]

Ok...So I was playing around with Google Maps today and found something interesting.

Ok, she was picked up around Silver Lake in Everett. Silver Lake, where she was picked up, is about a mile from the I-5 express way. I know that reports say she had hitchhiked through the midwest and most likely came from the east coast. So I was trying to figure out where she was going if she ended up in Everett. If you were coming from the East Coast to Vancouver you would definitely pass right by the area that she was killed.

Really this is the only major city that you would come from or go that would wind you up in Everett. I made a map going from Louisville, Ky on the east coast to Vancouver. Every possible route passes within a mile of where she was picked up.

Actually if you were going to British Columbia or Nova Scotia, unless you were using backroads. However, unless you were going to those two provinces or Northern Washington State. You probably wouldn't be passing through Everett. They only have I-5 that run straight up to Canada.

Here is the map: http://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=L...L_UEZACQVDGQR7Jx8kkkBw&mra=ls&vpsrc=6&t=h&z=8

Marker C is where she was picked up.

 

[ezio_mctavish]

I was thinking about the what David Roth has told the Police and I don't think that it is her denying his sexual advances that caused him to strangle and shoot her. I mean he was a 20 year guy. I am pretty sure that a lot more girls rejected him than just her. Believe me, I was 20 once ;-) If that was the case he probably would have killed someone long before then.

There must be something else that triggered him off. I have heard that he said he now thinks that it was because she told him that the two guys she was living with would hurt him. But he choked her first, it would seem like he would shoot her first if he was acting out of fear.

Also, I think she was staying somewhere in Everett, because she didn't have any change of clothes, money. I am wondering if she was vacationing there with the two guys. She probably was hitchhiking to find someone with some booze. She probably didn't know anyone in the area so, she was bored and that would make sense.

It could be possible that the two men that she lived with were involved in some illegal activities like selling drug and didn't report her missing because they didn't want any police attention.

I might check to see if there was anything going on in Everett or Seattle around that time she might have been going to.

 

[CarlK90245]

Here's a good Precious Doe possible who just showed up in NamUs today:

Karen Jean Lee
(No Photo Available)
https://www.findthemissing.org/cases/12090/10

* Her DLC is about 2 1/2 months before PD was found.
* She was missing from a city in Oregon not far from the Washington border.
* She was 15 years old when she disappeared (i.e., at the low end of PD's estimated age)
* She was listed as 5'7" tall and at the age of 15, was probably still growing (i.e., within an inch of PD's 5'8" to 5'10" estimate)
* She was an apparent runaway.


I could not find her photo in the available yearbooks for high schools in the area of Cornelius OR. She was not in the 1977 Hillsboro High yearbook, and the 1976 book wasn't available. So I called up Hillsboro High and they verified that she did attend there in 1976. I asked the librarian to check the 1976 yearbook and e-mail me a photo of her if he can find it. He said that he would do that.

ETA: Submitted to Deborah Hollis and Meredith Houff.

 

[CarlK90245]

I just spoke with Ed Vance of the Hillsboro PD. (i.e., the detective in charge of Karen Lee's MP case)

He said that Karen Lee had already been ruled out against Snohomish Precious Doe.

However, he was unaware of the Mendocino John and Jane Does. He sounded very excited about this tip and is going to look into it. He says that Karen's male companion is still missing as far as he knows, but he is not focused on him because he is listed as missing in a different jurisdiction. He said that he is probably older than the 13 year old age estimate for the John Doe, but that is not going to deter him from looking into this.

He thanked me in very enthusiastic tone of voice.

I explained that I was trying to locate photos of Karen Lee, and was unable to find any in the '77 Hillsboro HS yearbook, and the '76 book was unavailable. He says that I won't find her photo there. He said that he had already looked through the HS yearbooks, and couldn't find any portraits of her. All he has is a very grainy poor quality photo of her.

 

[kpdx]

great update, Carl! You are such a sleuthing star.

I had a gut feeling Karen wouldn't match up with SJD, but I do think the Mendocino is a good possible...especially if the male companion is missing, too.

Too bad about the picture. I sleuthed around a bit for possible leads on getting a photo...but no luck. I will continue to think about that, since where she disappeared from is close by. Do we have any additional info about her family/circumstance?

 

[CarlK90245]

Det. Vance didn't add much to what we already know from NamUs, other than what I mentioned above.