Warren Jeffs FLDS compound in Texas surrounded by police #4

[golfmom]

Thank you. I guess I will go read the links only thread. I am sorry to make y'all rehash all this - I joined late in the game.

But may I ask - is Ms. Swinton being charged with anything?

Texas isn't as of yet, but they're investigating.She was arrested in Colorado, but I'm not certain of what the charges are. I think it was for filing a false report.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/nation/5724630.html

COLORADO SPRINGS, Colo. — A court document says a phone number used to report alleged abuse at a polygamist retreat in Texas had been used previously by a 33-year-old Colorado woman.

It's not yet clear whether authorities suspect Rozita Swinton of Colorado Springs made any of the calls that triggered this month's raid of the compound.

An arrest warrant affidavit made public today says a phone number she had used previously was used to call a Texas crisis center before authorities conducted the raid and removed more than 400 children. Swinton's whereabouts are unknown.



http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_9010961

Texas authorities aren't saying much about their criminal investigation into the polygamous FLDS sect, but no criminal charges have been filed.

 

[golfmom]

I'm not sure about Christ advocating not following the laws of the day. He did say to render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's. If you're referring to work on the Sabbath (saving your donkey if he fell in a ditch, etc. ), that was a Jewish tradition not a law from the government they were living under at the time.

I don't remember him breaking any laws.

His message was more about you didn't receive grace through buying your way to heaven. Which of course was a very radical concept at the time.

 

[SewingDeb]

I don't remember him breaking any laws.

His message was more about you didn't receive grace through buying your way to heaven. Which of course was a very radical concept at the time.

I don't remember him breaking any laws either.

 

[southcitymom]

I'm not sure about Christ advocating not following the laws of the day. He did say to render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's. If you're referring to work on the Sabbath (saving your donkey if he fell in a ditch, etc. ), that was a Jewish tradition not a law from the government they were living under at the time.

Jesus was a rebel against the tired, ridiculous religious mores of the time in which he was born. He didn't act like an anointed Prince. He acted like a rebel with a cause.

He wrecked the money changers tables because he thought everyone and not just the wealthy should have access to the Temple and God. He told his followers that all the law and prophets and the minituae from the ancient Jewish code was meaningless - that all God cared about was two things - loving God with all your heart and treating your neighbor as you would yourself. He told people that all people could have a relationship with a loving God and that this relationship was free.

He hung out with drunks, *advertiser censored*, lepers - the fringes of society. He told married men to leave their wives and children and come with him and never look back or think twice about the earthly responsibilities they were leaving. And on and on.

Jesus came to tear down the tired restrictive old laws and give us sight of a new way to live. He didn't do this by being an upstanding citizen - though he was, without question, an outstanding man and, IMHO, the most important historical figure the world has ever known.

We accept Christ's lawlessness with the Monday morning quarterback vision of a couple of thousand of years. Maybe Jeffs followers truly believed in a modern era prophet who acted lawless and sounded righteous.

 

[SewingDeb]

Unfortunately in almost every group that claimed they were a religion but were in reality acting as a cult they have had no truly benevolent leaders. There always seems to be someone who weasles their way into power or seizes power, and is more cunning, vicious/sadistic who portrays themselves outwardly as a good person when they are rotten to the core. It's not just the women and children who suffer, but the men who aren't in the hierarchy as well.

You are so right, Molly.

 

[golfmom]

Maybe Jeffs followers truly believed in a modern era prophet who acted lawless and sounded righteous.

I think you nailed that one. On their website he is listed as the current prophet and has the direct descendants of prophets from Joseph Smith straight down to Warren Jeffs. He is their living prophet who speaks directly to God. That's why when you see the video/pictures from the compound his photo is on the walls of every residency.

 

[SewingDeb]

Jesus was a rebel against the tired, ridiculous religious mores of the time in which he was born. He didn't act like an anointed Prince. He acted like a rebel with a cause.

He wrecked the money changers tables because he thought everyone and not just the wealthy should have access to the Temple and God. He told his followers that all the law and prophets and the minituae from the ancient Jewish code was meaningless - that all God cared about was two things - loving God with all your heart and treating your neighbor as you would yourself. He told people that all people could have a relationship with a loving God and that this relationship was free.

He hung out with drunks, *advertiser censored*, lepers - the fringes of society. He told married men to leave their wives and children and come with him and never look back or think twice about the earthly responsibilities they were leaving. And on and on.

Jesus came to tear down the tired restrictive old laws and give us sight of a new way to live. He didn't do this by being an upstanding citizen - though he was, without question, an outstanding man and, IMHO, the most important historical figure the world has ever known.

We accept Christ's lawlessness with the Monday morning quarterback vision of a couple of thousand of years. Maybe Jeffs followers truly believed in a modern era prophet who acted lawless and sounded righteous.

Jesus did do all those things but he was preaching against the Jewish cultural laws and not the laws of the government of the time. The Jews were not in charge, making the laws, jailing people, collecting taxes etc. He didn't tell them to disregard Caesar's laws.

Who better than God's son to know what God wants? I can't imagine how Jesus would feel about the goings on in the FDLS compounds but I have a feeling he would approve of some and strongly disapprove of others.

I'm sure these poor brainwashed people believe in their prophet and his dictates but women and children are being harmed and apparently our government's laws against sex with underage girls and abuse of children are being broken all in the name of the prophet. That's why the state of Texas and the FBI have stepped in. I think it's long past due.

 

[Glow]

We accept Christ's lawlessness with the Monday morning quarterback vision of a couple of thousand of years. Maybe Jeffs followers truly believed in a modern era prophet who acted lawless and sounded righteous.

And he was also born to (as per history) a 14 year old mother.

 

[southcitymom]

And he was also born to (as per history) a 14 year old mother.

Exactly! We could go on and on about the similarities, but I am really not trying to tick anyone off or to say Jeffs is the Jesus of our era. That is not what I believe.

But still - some part of me understands wanting to believe that. Is that a choice? Were the disciples brainwashed? I often feel like I was brainwashed by NA, but I don't sweat it because I needed a good brainwashing!

 

[southcitymom]

Jesus did do all those things but he was preaching against the Jewish cultural laws and not the laws of the government of the time. The Jews were not in charge, making the laws, jailing people, collecting taxes etc.....

You make a very good point: http://www.thenazareneway.com/holy_week/why_was_jesus_arrested.htm

"The Jewish religious officials were afraid that if Jesus were to continue performing his signs, he would win over the people and the Romans would come in and destroy the Temple and nation.

According to legal custom at that time, a court crier had to announce publicly or post an official "wanted" handbill in the larger towns of Judea about forty days prior to a trial. Small wonder that there was some debate over whether Jesus would dare appear in Jerusalem for the next Passover. This discussion ended abruptly on Palm Sunday.

There were political reasons for dealing with Jesus. There had been a dozen uprisings in Palestine in the previous 100 years, most of them subdued by Roman force. Another Messianic rebellion under Jesus would only shatter the precarious balance of authority, break Rome's patience, and might lead to direct occupation by Roman legions.

Religiously, Jesus was a dangerous item. The people were hailing the Teacher from Galilee as something more than a man, and Jesus was not
denying or blunting this blasphemous adulation. Personally, the Pharisees had been bested by Jesus in public debate, being called vipers, whitewashed tombs, and devourers of widow's houses. Humiliated, they would be only too happy to conspire with the scribes, elders, and chief priests."

I still say he was a rebel through and through!

 

[Leila]

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcon...gamists_23tex.ART.State.Edition2.4682227.html

And around 10 pregnant girls – including a 14-year-old – will go to a group home in San Antonio.

There was a report last week that one girl had given birth a few days prior to the report, and that another one was in labor. So that's two that have already given birth. Other reports have stated that "several" girls have given birth. So, it sound like either 12 or 13 girls were pregnant when they were removed from the YFZ ranch.

I would presume those that have given birth are included in the mothers 18 and younger, who will be staying with their children.

 

[Yeah me]

I found this in the comments under the article golfmom posted, forgive me if it's been mentioned:

Lilathe: 4/20/2008 11:54:00 AM

+5​

The really creepy thing about this woman is that I recognized her voice when I heard the recording on TV. She called me for months as well, but at that time her name was Lei. She had supposedly ran away from a CPS sexually abusive home and was pregnant. In the beginning she was living in a tent in the woods by a park and using the bathroom to charge her cell phone and for water. I helped to find a runaway shelter near her.
At one point during the Laci Peterson missing person thing, Lei called me and described in detail how two men had tried to pull her into a van after she heard them say, "there's a pregnant girl" and described a van exactly like the van seen by one of Laci's neighbors possibly dragging someone in. I contacted the Modesto police Laci task force and told them to trace Lei's cell phone from my number, just in case it was the same van that was seen possibly pulling a woman in the same time Laci was abducted.
This all ended with her supposedly being on a bus in labor heading back to her mother. She kept telling two of us on three way calling with her that she was going to go somewhere alone and have the baby and just leave it.
A search of the bus turned up no pregnant teenager. So that was two other police forces she wasted man hours for.

--------------------------------------------
Are you kidding me? This all ties in together with Laci's case somehow? I remember the call about a pregger woman being pulled into the van and it coming up bogus. I betcha Rozita was a member here or other similar forum. She just wanted to see her actions in print and connected with high profile cases. :crazy: NUT!

Ya just never know......

This is a much better article (no spelling errors).

http://www.sltrib.com/News/ci_8993150

 

[txsvicki]

Nancy Grace is on now. They're saying that babies under one will be able to stay with their moms so they can breast feed, but others are being separated. Did anyone else hear this? Did they say the mothers will be going to foster homes with the babies?? This is BS if true unless the moms are truly under age 18. People can hardly get any help and these people are getting special privileges and costing the state even more money. Most of these idiots will probably end up being turned loose and meanwhile I have desperately tried to get help with one of my grandkids with no luck at all.

 

[golfmom]

Yeah,me .... OH MY Gosh! I completely missed that. This woman really did have a history of making these calls. Is it really possible she could have been the one why called regarding the satanists, van, and pregnant Laci? What a bizarre coincidence!

 

[Yeah me]

I'm quite stunned. It really bothers me that a hoax brought everything to light and prompted the raid. I really hope the Texas Rangers and court are doing this by the book and have the law on their side in all of this. Otherwise, the jig is up and these people will disappear to another compound.

Anyone else worry about the women that have been on camera and talked to media being punished when they reunite with their "spouses"?

Yeah,me .... OH MY Gosh! I completely missed that. This woman really did have a history of making these calls. Is it really possible she could have been the one why called regarding the satanists, van, and pregnant Laci? What a bizarre coincidence!

 

[Leila]

http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/192424.php

Confirmed: Rozita Swinton, the woman implicated as the hoaxter who placed a fraudulent phone call which led to the roundup of hundreds of children from the Texas polygamy cult ranch, is a Barack Obama delegate to the Colorado state Democratic convention.

Yikes! On Nancy Grace, a former member of LE reported that Rozita Swinton has a history of false phone calls to help lines. She was arrested for making 28 calls to a womens shelter in Snohomish County, Washington. She was arrested in 2005 for making false reports. She also made 22 calls to the San Angelo County womens shelter, but it wasn't reported when she made those calls.

 

[golfmom]

I'm quite stunned. It really bothers me that a hoax brought everything to light and prompted the raid. I really hope the Texas Rangers and court are doing this by the book and have the law on their side in all of this. Otherwise, the jig is up and these people will disappear to another compound.

Anyone else worry about the women that have been on camera and talked to media being punished when they reunite with their "spouses"?

I have confidence that even if this was prompted by a hoax call, that the authorities could only act if they found evidence during their initial search. Even the FBI was able to secure a search warrant. I think we're only hearing about the tip of the iceberg as far as the evidence of abuse they collected.

It hadn't occurred to me that the women who spoke to the media might be punished. They seemed to be very evasive and didn't give direct answers ... like the kind of answers that were prepared and rehearsed.

 

[golfmom]

Yikes! On Nancy Grace, a former member of LE reported that Rozita Swinton has a history of false phone calls to help lines. She was arrested for making 28 calls to a womens shelter in Snohomish County, Washington. She was arrested in 2005 for making false reports. She also made 22 calls to the San Angelo County womens shelter, but it wasn't reported when she made those calls.

Just how in the heck did she become an Obama delegate?

 

[sweetmop]

What a great post, Flowerchild. And I so agree.

 

[southcitymom]

I'm quite stunned. It really bothers me that a hoax brought everything to light and prompted the raid. I really hope the Texas Rangers and court are doing this by the book and have the law on their side in all of this. Otherwise, the jig is up and these people will disappear to another compound.

Anyone else worry about the women that have been on camera and talked to media being punished when they reunite with their "spouses"?

It is repugnant to me. And the legal implications are fairly harrowing to contemplate as well.