Warren Jeffs FLDS compound in Texas surrounded by police #4

[Leila]

LOL, one of differences currently recognized about mental illness is that a psychopath knows it is wrong, but they do it anyway. A truly mentally ill person, believes it is what they are supposed to do.

Think about Couey and Peterson. Both tried to hide their crimes, which indicates they knew what they did was wrong. But they did it anyway. Psychopaths? Probably. But not currently recognized as being mentally ill.

A psychopath is actually classified as having a character disorder, rather than a mental illness.

The FLDS wasn't overly restrictive under Leroy Johnson. People were allowed to come and go, children were in public school, and people had a degree of freedom. Things became a became a bit restrictive under Rulon Jeffs. Upon the death of Rulon Jeffs in September 2002, Warren Jeffs became president/prophet, and in less than 6 years, he took the FLDS to the extremely restrictive community we see today.

I'm not so sure that Warren Jeffs is mentally ill. He is extremely controlling and manipulative for his own benefit. He gets perverse pleasure from having the control he exerts over his followers, and he enjoys being worshiped. His quest for more and more power led to the building of the YFZ ranch.

Warren Jeffs knows right from wrong. He fled to avoid prosecution when charged with arranging marriages between underage girls and adult men. When arrested he was driving a red car (color avoided by FLDS) and wearing burmuda shorts (where was the holy underwear?). Like any good con man, Warren Jeffs wasn't living by the tenets of his "religion" during the time he was on the run.

 

[cheko1]

Earlier I asked if anyone knew what this meant relating to the FLDS. If anyone answered the post, I must apologize I never seen it. Does anyone know what the term "Prison Laborers" at the ranch are?



I found it at www.FLDSchildren.org


Lots of officers stirring around. 'Prison laborers' clean up around the houses and public areas. Officers leaving in groups throughout the morning and early afternoon. Walking privileges restored by noon. Vehicles impounded are returned throughout the afternooon. By mid-afternoon all officers are gone with the threat that they 'may return'.
Wednesday, April 09, 2008 8:00:00 AM

 

[Fairy1]

Warren Jeffs is not a psychopath, sociopath or any other sufferer of mental illness. He is a MAN who is drunk with power and has used the Bible and th Book of Mormon to suit his own sick desires. The Bible is interpreted by every orgnanized religion the world over to suit their own needs. The Mormons and took it one step further and introduced the Book of Mormon to further their own interests in the 1800's. Many of the men of the FLDS have a great deal of exposure to the world outside of their compounds. They are running multi-million dollar businesses and are fully aware of what is both legal and socially acceptable in the USA. The world they have carved out for themselves within the FLDS sects are completely self-serving and much of what they practice within those walls are illegal in the US. Period. There are solid arguments as to why 13, 14, 15, 16 year olds are not prepared to be mothers. That is why the laws the land over exsist. It's not a great mystery and it is irrelevant what people in third world countries do. If Americans are suddenly free to pick and choose the laws we will follow, we are all in trouble. I maintain, if these women are eligible to use my tax dollars to care for their children, they should also follow the law.

 

[philamena]

That's right. And the second search warrant discovered eighteen pregnant children, not just one. This case has nothing to do with the political or religious beliefs of the many nefarious players. The criminal charges in this case will focus on the individuals who are responsible for imprisoning hundreds of children in an effort to forcibly impregnate them.

:clap:

 

[Leila]

I think it is considered a mental disorder (like depression, neuroses, or phobias) but not a mental illness. In other words psychiatrists might be called upon to treat them. But they aren't considered insane.

My oldest sister, now deceased, was a psychiatric nurse. She explained the differences between psychiatric conditions. A character/personality disorder can never be cured, but their behavior can be tempered with therapy and medication. If you take away the therapy and/or medication their bad behavior returns. A person with a character/personality disorder is born with the disorder.

A mental illness includes depression, phobias, neuroses, trauma, etc. and is curable through therapy and medication.

 

[Vegas Bride]

Earlier I asked if anyone knew what this meant relating to the FLDS. If anyone answered the post, I must apologize I never seen it. Does anyone know what the term "Prison Laborers" at the ranch are?



I found it at www.FLDSchildren.org


Lots of officers stirring around. 'Prison laborers' clean up around the houses and public areas. Officers leaving in groups throughout the morning and early afternoon. Walking privileges restored by noon. Vehicles impounded are returned throughout the afternooon. By mid-afternoon all officers are gone with the threat that they 'may return'.
Wednesday, April 09, 2008 8:00:00 AM

My guess is they are saying the authorities used prisoners from either a jail or a prison to help get some work done. At the jail I work at they use some to do work, they call them trustees.

VB

 

[Truly]

Earlier I asked if anyone knew what this meant relating to the FLDS. If anyone answered the post, I must apologize I never seen it. Does anyone know what the term "Prison Laborers" at the ranch are?



I found it at www.FLDSchildren.org


Lots of officers stirring around. 'Prison laborers' clean up around the houses and public areas. Officers leaving in groups throughout the morning and early afternoon. Walking privileges restored by noon. Vehicles impounded are returned throughout the afternooon. By mid-afternoon all officers are gone with the threat that they 'may return'.
Wednesday, April 09, 2008 8:00:00 AM

checko, I am actually a little bit :chicken: to click on the FLDS-sponsored links, (is this one of those?), but I know that some prisoners are often released under supervision to work on public works projects. One time, I was hiking in the Sierras, and we came upon a group of inmates who were building trails. It was hard work, but they were very happy to be outdoors. They invited us to dinner, (as they had just gotten a food-drop from a helicopter), and we accepted, (as we were ten days in and running low on food). They baked us a cake. It was yummy. No file inside or nothing!

 

[Fairy1]

My oldest sister, now deceased, was a psychiatric nurse. She explained the differences between psychiatric conditions. A character/personality disorder can never be cured, but their behavior can be tempered with therapy and medication. If you take away the therapy and/or medication their bad behavior returns. A person with a character/personality disorder is born with the disorder.

A mental illness includes depression, phobias, neuroses, trauma, etc. and is curable through therapy and medication.

Please don't "excuse" the behavior of Warren Jeffs or any of his followers as people who are suffering from mental illness. For those who are born into the FLDS sect and know nothing else, the ignorance can be explained. However, there are those who are in positions of power within the sect, who know what they practice is morally wrong as well as illegal.

 

[cheko1]

Awwww Thank you Vegas bride..........:blowkiss:
I wasn't thinking LE / I was thinking FLDS! Silly me!!!!

 

[Leila]

Earlier I asked if anyone knew what this meant relating to the FLDS. If anyone answered the post, I must apologize I never seen it. Does anyone know what the term "Prison Laborers" at the ranch are?



I found it at www.FLDSchildren.org


Lots of officers stirring around. 'Prison laborers' clean up around the houses and public areas. Officers leaving in groups throughout the morning and early afternoon. Walking privileges restored by noon. Vehicles impounded are returned throughout the afternooon. By mid-afternoon all officers are gone with the threat that they 'may return'.
Wednesday, April 09, 2008 8:00:00 AM

Cheko...............It sounds like the local LE utilized non-violent offenders from a nearby prison/jail as day laborers.

 

[mostlylurking]

golfmom & scm...
wow. i logged on this evening (brain dead from attending my first autism conference -- 9 yo just being diagnosed w/Asperger's) for some reason thinking that this would be relaxing reading. ha! I am loving your discussion today. scm, i've missed seeing you on this thread & am so glad to see your input. i always so agree with you (exept for the possible desire for DP for child molesters on a different thread ). and IMO, no, 12 step programs are not a cult -- though there are those who would disagree & that could be a whole different conversation......

 

[cheko1]

checko, I am actually a little bit :chicken: to click on the FLDS-sponsored links, (is this one of those?), but I know that some prisoners are often released under supervision to work on public works projects. One time, I was hiking in the Sierras, and we came upon a group of inmates who were building trails. It was hard work, but they were very happy to be outdoors. They invited us to dinner, (as they had just gotten a food-drop from a helicopter), and we accepted, (as we were ten days in and running low on food). They baked us a cake. It was yummy. No file inside or nothing!

No its the one where all the pix of the raid at the FLDS is.....they have pix of some damage LE did.....& the FLDS is asking for donations. etc

After re-reading it it sounds like prisoners working with LE.

No files inside of cake!
Thank you so much! :blowkiss:

 

[cheko1]

Cheko...............It sounds like the local LE utilized non-violent offenders from a nearby prison/jail as day laborers.

Thanks Leila!!! :blowkiss:

 

[mollymalone]

I asked this question earlier in the thread: which came first - the fanaticism or the mental illness?

Religious delusions have always interested me. They lead to some of the worst sorts of crime against our fellows. I do not think Jeffs would be out of place in a mental institution. I think studying him would benefit us.

Perhaps this will provide some insight into Warren Jeffs psyche. Growing up as he did in Rulon Jeffs household and being taught the same things he preached about men being in the ascendancy within their religion, some of the things he's imposed upon his followers seems to have been ingrained within his own character from early on.

http://www.religionnewsblog.com/1040...hares-concerns
"Long before he claimed to be a prophet, I found out Warren had been kicked out of his father’s house as a teenager for molesting little boys and committing immoral acts with his little sisters. I figured that if Uncle Rulon (his father and my prophet, seer and revelator) could forgive him and allow him another chance, then so could I. I thought that no one was perfect and that everyone has need of repentance for past mistakes." "If it’s proven, in a legal court of law, that Warren did in fact not truly repent of his past sins, but just got better at hiding them"


"You may not be aware of the word going all around Colorado City that Warren wrote a letter to the judge claiming innocence of sodomizing his nephew as a little boy, but that he didn’t want to fight the boy’s father (Warren’s brother) and would rather pay what they were asking for rather than show up in court to defend his claimed innocence."

 

[Leila]

Please don't "excuse" the behavior of Warren Jeffs or any of his followers as people who are suffering from mental illness. For those who are born into the FLDS sect and know nothing else, the ignorance can be explained. However, there are those who are in positions of power within the sect, who know what they practice is morally wrong as well as illegal.

Fairy1..............see my post on page 37 - post #922. I don't think Warren Jeffs has any sort of mental illness. I think he's a con man. Within the confines of the cult he may act the role of the pious prophet. But outside, he sheds the restrictions of his "religion." I note that when he was arrested, he was driving a red car - red is a color carefully avoided by FLDS members, and he was wearing burmuda shorts - FLDS men wear long pants over their holy underwear.

 

[Fairy1]

Fairy1..............see my post on page 37 - post #922. I don't think Warren Jeffs has any sort of mental illness. I think he's a con man. Within the confines of the cult he may act the role of the pious prophet. But outside, he sheds the restrictions of his "religion." I note that when he was arrested, he was driving a red car - red is a color carefully avoided by FLDS members, and he was wearing burmuda shorts - FLDS men wear long pants over their holy underwear.

He also had numerous cell phones, computers and thousands and thousands of dollars in cash. I apologize if I sounded accusatory, but I cannot bear the thought of his behavior being excused or explained away. Rulon Jeffs was certainly no saint, but Warren Jeffs has knowingly taken this sect to a whole new and deplorable level.

 

[mollymalone]

A psychopath is actually classified as having a character disorder, rather than a mental illness.

The FLDS wasn't overly restrictive under Leroy Johnson. People were allowed to come and go, children were in public school, and people had a degree of freedom. Things became a became a bit restrictive under Rulon Jeffs. Upon the death of Rulon Jeffs in September 2002, Warren Jeffs became president/prophet, and in less than 6 years, he took the FLDS to the extremely restrictive community we see today.

I'm not so sure that Warren Jeffs is mentally ill. He is extremely controlling and manipulative for his own benefit. He gets perverse pleasure from having the control he exerts over his followers, and he enjoys being worshiped. His quest for more and more power led to the building of the YFZ ranch.

Warren Jeffs knows right from wrong. He fled to avoid prosecution when charged with arranging marriages between underage girls and adult men. When arrested he was driving a red car (color avoided by FLDS) and wearing burmuda shorts (where was the holy underwear?). Like any good con man, Warren Jeffs wasn't living by the tenets of his "religion" during the time he was on the run.

Warren Jeffs not only has forced himself upon young children, but on his father's wives. He told them they were now his and only two objected. One beat feet out of town while the getting was good and the other flatout refused. (He sent her back to her parents with the edict that she would never be allowed to remarry). Edited to add: so it's not just a predeliction for children. The act of sex, the forcing of sex upon someone who is unwilling, ie..children, or the wives is another form of power that he revels in. IMO

He also was ruling the roost while his father was still alive. Rulon was ill and Warren took over claiming to speak for his father. I agree, he delights in being worshiped and having power over so many. He also delights in cruelty to others. I agree it's all about power with him. Even though he's was imprisoned and is now on trial in AZ he's still enjoying the power and control he has over those he still has his thumb on.

 

[Leila]

Perhaps this will provide some insight into Warren Jeffs psyche. Growing up as he did in Rulon Jeffs household and being taught the same things he preached about men being in the ascendancy within their religion, some of the things he's imposed upon his followers seems to have been ingrained within his own character from early on.

http://www.religionnewsblog.com/1040...hares-concerns
"Long before he claimed to be a prophet, I found out Warren had been kicked out of his father’s house as a teenager for molesting little boys and committing immoral acts with his little sisters. I figured that if Uncle Rulon (his father and my prophet, seer and revelator) could forgive him and allow him another chance, then so could I. I thought that no one was perfect and that everyone has need of repentance for past mistakes." "If it’s proven, in a legal court of law, that Warren did in fact not truly repent of his past sins, but just got better at hiding them"


"You may not be aware of the word going all around Colorado City that Warren wrote a letter to the judge claiming innocence of sodomizing his nephew as a little boy, but that he didn’t want to fight the boy’s father (Warren’s brother) and would rather pay what they were asking for rather than show up in court to defend his claimed innocence."

Molly...........

When I first heard of Warren Jeffs - when he was captured after being on the FBI most wanted list, I did a brief online search. The following quote is from Wikipedia's short biography of Warren Jeffs, which has been updated since his trial last summer:

Jeffs resigned from the presidency of the FLDS Church on the day he was sentenced.[7] There are also reports that Jeffs admitted his position of prophet in the FLDS church was false in a conversation to William E. Jessop, and declared that "Brother William E. Jessop has been the prophet since [my] Father's passing" in a conversation to his brother Nephi Jeffs, though Jeffs' attorneys have claimed he misspoke.

I've been very curious about the above statement. Did Jeffs, in fact, resign? And is he admitting that he was never actually the prophet, that William Jessop, was rightfully the prophet ever since the death of Rulon Jeffs?

Edited to add...........as we learn more and more about Warren Jeffs, more and more he seems to be very devious. It goes along with his some of his past actions.

 

[cheko1]

Fairy1..............see my post on page 37 - post #922. I don't think Warren Jeffs has any sort of mental illness. I think he's a con man. Within the confines of the cult he may act the role of the pious prophet. But outside, he sheds the restrictions of his "religion." I note that when he was arrested, he was driving a red car - red is a color carefully avoided by FLDS members, and he was wearing burmuda shorts - FLDS men wear long pants over their holy underwear.

He has even kicked some of the young boys out of the ranch for rolling up there shirt sleeves to there elbows. Yet he runs around in shorts!!! Talk about a hypocrite it is Warren Jeffs.

 

[mollymalone]

Fairy1..............see my post on page 37 - post #922. I don't think Warren Jeffs has any sort of mental illness. I think he's a con man. Within the confines of the cult he may act the role of the pious prophet. But outside, he sheds the restrictions of his "religion." I note that when he was arrested, he was driving a red car - red is a color carefully avoided by FLDS members, and he was wearing burmuda shorts - FLDS men wear long pants over their holy underwear.

I'm sure that irony wasn't lost on those who have lost their faith in him. Con man, that label certainly fits him.