Was Defendant Deprived of Her Right to Counsel?

[faefrost]

I thought of that when Baez said, "From the beginning we didn't feel this was a death penalty case."

The State has made clear that the jail tape of Baez and Prisoner conferring, her back to the camera, will not be used at trial. I think the tape of her reaction to the telecast will be used to show consciousness of guilt and I have not heard the prosecution say otherwise.

Attorney for the officers will argue vigorously against the way their representations are being characterized by the defense. In fact, there is no substantiation for the claims in the Baez motion.

Well yes, at the begining the state didn't feel that either. They were willing to go for an accidental death plea. It was JB and KC who shot that down. Since the remains were found the state no longer believes it could possibly be accidental death, and feels they have damning proof to back it up.

 

[Manny]

I thought of that when Baez said, "From the beginning we didn't feel this was a death penalty case."

The State has made clear that the jail tape of Baez and Prisoner conferring, her back to the camera, will not be used at trial. I think the tape of her reaction to the telecast will be used to show consciousness of guilt and I have not heard the prosecution say otherwise.

Attorney for the officers will argue vigorously against the way their representations are being characterized by the defense. In fact, there is no substantiation for the claims in the Baez motion.

Did these guards lie in their deposition? The document submitted to the court stated( according to the statements taken from the these CO )that they were told by the SO to take CA to the medical area so she could see the tv and watch " the circus that was going on"
Am I missing something here.

 

[fundiva]

IMO this video should be used to counteract her "ugly coping" defense for her behavior after Caylee went missing. Her way of coping (according to JB) with an upsetting situation (Caylee missing) was to drink, party and stay out until all hours. This tape, however, shoes that CA's reactions to unwanted and upsetting information is doubling over and asking for medication, etc. Where is the "ugly coping" she supposedly uses for these situations?

 

[ZubenElSchemali]

Did these guards lie in their deposition? The document submitted to the court stated( according to the statements taken from the these CO )that they were told by the SO to take CA to the medical area so she could see the tv and watch " the circus that was going on"
Am I missing something here.

I'm not participating in the poll but wanted to say, You're absolutely right, Manny, according to the quotes from the corrections officers included in the motion. These two seem to be putting their jobs on the line in order to tell the truth. They state they have never been asked to do something like this before and that the request came from the sheriff's office. They say that she has been a model prisoner and I've heard the same statement on news video before too. They show the tape has been edited by stating that they should have been on camera, such as when TU looked at Casey's hands.

I see no comparison between Dec. 11 and the Padilla show. I watched the breaking news too and I never even came close to thinking that had anything to do with Caylee. Law enforcement never gave that impression either. It was completely different on Dec. 11. I knew with the first broadcast and all of the news media and LE seemed to be thinking/implying the same thing from the way I read them.

Connie

 

[Manny]

Thank you. I was beginning to feel alone in the world.

 

[Sooner Fan#1]

I agree with Chefmom, I do believe JAB is making this a big deal as a way of diversion. At this point, I don't know what he is thinking, (None of us can!) But it makes me more and more curious as to what is going to come out next.

 

[Gaia713]

I'm not participating in the poll but wanted to say, You're absolutely right, Manny, according to the quotes from the corrections officers included in the motion. These two seem to be putting their jobs on the line in order to tell the truth. They state they have never been asked to do something like this before and that the request came from the sheriff's office. They say that she has been a model prisoner and I've heard the same statement on news video before too. They show the tape has been edited by stating that they should have been on camera, such as when TU looked at Casey's hands.

I see no comparison between Dec. 11 and the Padilla show. I watched the breaking news too and I never even came close to thinking that had anything to do with Caylee. Law enforcement never gave that impression either. It was completely different on Dec. 11. I knew with the first broadcast and all of the news media and LE seemed to be thinking/implying the same thing from the way I read them.

Connie

I would think that to prove this was a "setup," they would have had to delay their discovery until KC was in the waiting area. I don't believe the sheriff's department can just order guards to do something out of the ordinary. In Baez's motion, he says inmates were shouting it to her BEFORE she was moved to the medical facility.

Jails have chains of command and protocol. How was the sheriff's department able to circumvent this. Did they hold off the media also until they got Casey to the waiting area? Pretty big conspiracy there. Rivals the shooting of JFK

Let's see. KRonk calls 911, 911 notifies the head of OCSD who immediately calls the jail and tells them to get KC post haste to a video area. Meanwhile, the media and everyone with a police scanner is not told of this. This is the most laughable scenario. Some people see conspiracy EVERYWHERE, even when there is none. How could inmates be yelling at Casey about this when the media isn't even informed until Casey is moved to an area where she can be taped?

 

[Seebra]

I agree with Chefmom, I do believe JAB is making this a big deal as a way of diversion. At this point, I don't know what he is thinking, (None of us can!) But it makes me more and more curious as to what is going to come out next.

Here's what will happen next:

JB will file another 17 motions that have the legal and intellectual content of an 11 year old.

Hearing dates will be set to schedule additional hearings on the delay of a hearing that will conclude the hearing that will actually result in JB filing another 17 motions.

Meanwhile, KC will continue ordering up cookies and snacks from the commissary and will continue to study all of the legal aspects of her case from her cell until she feels confident enough to help JB write additional motions about her case.

Together, they will set out to destory the logical workings of all jurors' minds in favor of a thin SODDI plot that makes all of the evidence gathered by the state COMPLETELY disappear.

 

[debbie0604]

OK--OK--OK--I give. I really was trying to be nice but am just to nosy. Ya'll broke down all my resistance---I wanna see that video now.

LOL!! You know what? I didn't really care about that video at first, but since JB has made such a commotion about it... I now say that the Sunshine Law should apply!

I wanna see the dadgum video!!! :gavel:

 

[jon_burrows]

Well yes, at the begining the state didn't feel that either. They were willing to go for an accidental death plea. It was JB and KC who shot that down. Since the remains were found the state no longer believes it could possibly be accidental death, and feels they have damning proof to back it up.

I thought the only deal offered to Casey was to give the location of the body, in exchange the SA wouldn't seek the DP. They gave her a limited amount of time and when she didn't take the deal, it was revoked.

 

[RR0004]

I thought the only deal offered to Casey was to give the location of the body, in exchange the SA wouldn't seek the DP. They gave her a limited amount of time and when she didn't take the deal, it was revoked.

I don't think we ever really knew the nature of the deal. Have a link by any chance? TIA

 

[newuser]

My knee jerk reaction, I'm sorry to admit, is I don't really care if her rights were violated. Sorry, I know that's not politically correct, but I just don't care. Her baby's bones were being dug out of the dirt, where she left them, after God only knows what happened. Why do we care about her "rights". I know, because we don't want to mess up the case at trial, but who was screaming for Caylee's rights when she was throw out like garbage?

I voted no, nevertheless.

 

[Gaia713]

In the interviews that were submitted by the defense, she was only in the waiting area for half an hour so EXACTLY how long was Jose prevented from seeing his client? I don't consider half an hour a "significant" amount of time. Checkin time in many jails is at least that long.

 

[faefrost]

I would think that to prove this was a "setup," they would have had to delay their discovery until KC was in the waiting area. I don't believe the sheriff's department can just order guards to do something out of the ordinary. In Baez's motion, he says inmates were shouting it to her BEFORE she was moved to the medical facility.

Jails have chains of command and protocol. How was the sheriff's department able to circumvent this. Did they hold off the media also until they got Casey to the waiting area? Pretty big conspiracy there. Rivals the shooting of JFK

Let's see. KRonk calls 911, 911 notifies the head of OCSD who immediately calls the jail and tells them to get KC post haste to a video area. Meanwhile, the media and everyone with a police scanner is not told of this. This is the most laughable scenario. Some people see conspiracy EVERYWHERE, even when there is none. How could inmates be yelling at Casey about this when the media isn't even informed until Casey is moved to an area where she can be taped?

Sure they can. Just because what they did with KC was unusual does not make it a civil rights violation, nor something that can be used in her defense in court. Most of the inmates in the jail are not under active and ongoing investigation. particularly not for the brutal murder of a 2 year old child.

LE and jails can put other inmates in with a prisoner, and those inmates can give testimony on what they are told. They can passively observe a prisoner. Invoking her right to council or her 5th amendment rights does not mean that LE cannot listen to anything she says (except when her lawyer is present) nor observe anything she does. It simply means they cannot sit her down in a room and actively question her. Anything she freely says or does may be used against her. The responsibility for saying or doing nothing that will incriminate herself lies with the defendent.

The jail also has no obligation that a prisoners lawyer be the one to deliver news. It is at best a courtesy. Actually the official policy is that bad news is delivered by the Jail chaplain, NOT the clients lawyer. JB cannot press a case of injury because KC is not being treated exactly the same as every inmote, when he is demanding special treatment at every turn.

 

[Just Jayla]

I would think that to prove this was a "setup," they would have had to delay their discovery until KC was in the waiting area. I don't believe the sheriff's department can just order guards to do something out of the ordinary. In Baez's motion, he says inmates were shouting it to her BEFORE she was moved to the medical facility.

Jails have chains of command and protocol. How was the sheriff's department able to circumvent this. Did they hold off the media also until they got Casey to the waiting area? Pretty big conspiracy there. Rivals the shooting of JFK

Let's see. KRonk calls 911, 911 notifies the head of OCSD who immediately calls the jail and tells them to get KC post haste to a video area. Meanwhile, the media and everyone with a police scanner is not told of this. This is the most laughable scenario. Some people see conspiracy EVERYWHERE, even when there is none. How could inmates be yelling at Casey about this when the media isn't even informed until Casey is moved to an area where she can be taped?

In addition, TU or the male guard, don't remember which, said they were worried it had been broadcast on her handheld radio before they could get her to a neutral place, where medical help would be if necessary.

 

[Just Jayla]

Sure they can. Just because what they did with KC was unusual does not make it a civil rights violation, nor something that can be used in her defense in court. Most of the inmates in the jail are not under active and ongoing investigation. particularly not for the brutal murder of a 2 year old child.

LE and jails can put other inmates in with a prisoner, and those inmates can give testimony on what they are told. They can passively observe a prisoner. Invoking her right to council or her 5th amendment rights does not mean that LE cannot listen to anything she says (except when her lawyer is present) nor observe anything she does. It simply means they cannot sit her down in a room and actively question her. Anything she freely says or does may be used against her. The responsibility for saying or doing nothing that will incriminate herself lies with the defendent.

The jail also has no obligation that a prisoners lawyer be the one to deliver news. It is at best a courtesy. Actually the official policy is that bad news is delivered by the Jail chaplain, NOT the clients lawyer. JB cannot press a case of injury because KC is not being treated exactly the same as every inmote, when he is demanding special treatment at every turn.

Like giving KC internet access.

 

[magic-cat]

Can Casey and I go and hunt for Caylee alone without the bracelet or supervision? No-ok then I will just send out the PI to look where Casey said the baby is...
Can Casey use the phone? No-ok then I will just give her a prepaid one to use...
Can Casey use the internet? No-ok then I will just let her use it in my offices...
Can everyone not watch Casey in jail and violate her civil rights? No-ok then I will just file 92,000 motions to keep this all tied up FOREVER!
Can Casey be given special treatment and privilege that is not afforded to the other prisoners? No-ok then I will throw a tantrum about how cruelly my poor client is being treated...

Give it a rest Jose!
Nobody is falling for it.
The entire world knows your client is guilty.

And FYI?
A 30 minute wait is not a violation of someones civil rights-it is a small price to pay don't you think? To wait a few minutes for the FREE attorney who is defending you because you MURDERED your baby?

 

[jon_burrows]

I don't think we ever really knew the nature of the deal. Have a link by any chance? TIA

I haven't tried searching for a link. I think it was one of the cable shows that stated the nature of the deal. They could have been wrong. I remember thinking it wasn't a 'sweetheart' deal. If she took it, she would have most likely gotten LWOP. The SODDI defense would have been impossible to use if she led them to the body.

 

[Seebra]

Can Casey and I go and hunt for Caylee alone without the bracelet or supervision? No-ok then I will just send out the PI to look where Casey said the baby is...
Can Casey use the phone? No-ok then I will just give her a prepaid one to use...
Can Casey use the internet? No-ok then I will just let her use it in my offices...
Can everyone not watch Casey in jail and violate her civil rights? No-ok then I will just file 92,000 motions to keep this all tied up FOREVER!
Can Casey be given special treatment and privilege that is not afforded to the other prisoners? No-ok then I will throw a tantrum about how cruelly my poor client is being treated...

Give it a rest Jose!
Nobody is falling for it.
The entire world knows your client is guilty.

And FYI?
A 30 minute wait is not a violation of someones civil rights-it is a small price to pay don't you think? To wait a few minutes for the FREE attorney who is defending you because you MURDERED your baby?

AMEN, sister.

 

[whiteangora]

Disclaimer - I haven't read the entire thread nor participated in the poll.
My problem here is we have not yet seen or heard these depositions that JB has taken. So far, we are only hearing his side of what the 2 Jail workers have said. Considering the source, I'll wait for these documents to be made public.