what are your thoughts now? *re-re-poll*

[Whisperer]

There are people that served time in prison wrongfully because of an eye witness. They are generally not reliable...there are some exceptions which I have posted before.

LE has had much experience with eye witnesses. I am sure they are checking out "Jersey". They need the parents' help to rule him out or in. If he is the perp and was carrying Lisa that night, from what was described, he HAD to have left DNA at the house. Anyone who carried her out in the night, as the witnesses described, had to have left some DNA at the house.

 

[Dewey2Me1MoThyme]

I see there are some that believe in the stranger theory and are expressing that we are wrong about the parents. For the record, everyone of us hope we are wrong.

Can anyone think of a case where a baby was stolen and the stranger was caught? If so, maybe we can review the details of the case and get a profile of the kind of perp that takes babies.

I know of one case. He was a sexual predator and stole a three month old. She was left in a field. I know all I need to know about this type and I have excluded that type in this case but if people here want to consider that, go ahead! I've paid the price for reading and talking to the #$#$ B@#@. I will never get over it...because it ripped my heart out.

So, for those who think intruder, it is time to profile the @#$#$....

For the record, I'm not saying those who think the parents are involved are right or wrong, what I am saying is some will not consider any evidence, facts or circumstantial evidence that points at anyone other than DB/ JI.

 

[Whisperer]

For the record, I'm not saying those who think the parents are involved are right or wrong, what I am saying is some will not consider any evidence, facts or circumstantial evidence that points at anyone other than DB/ JI.

I know that Dew. It was not your posts I was referencing.

I do see posters who are looking at everything. Let's hear about Jersey as the perp. How did he do it and not leave any evidence? IF he was crazy enough to be walking around with a deceased or very quiet ten month old, undressed in cold weather out in the street where everyone could see him, then he was not right in the head. I have discussed this and have considered him. I need to know if he is a sexual predator or a crazy maniac. Those are the choices I have when I put him in the picture.

I can understand why people think it's him but there has to be an awful lot of things that just went perfectly well for a crazy maniac that particular night...if the eye witnesses saw Lisa in his arms.

 

[askfornina]

i am still in the same place i have been. on the fence, leaning toward DB's innocence. from what i have seen so far, JI is not even on my radar as far as guilt. the timeline just does not fit for me, with him. that is subject to change.

i still am waiting for evidence from LE. i still want to know the results of any forensics. i want a more detailed outline of the phone information. i want ALL information, not just little bits and pieces. i want to see the interrogations. i want to know more details about the cadaver dog hit.

i am wary of the parents interviews with media, because they are EDITED. i would like to see the full, raw videos. from the beginning, i have seen real emotion from DB. i HAVE seen them beg for their daughters return. it confuses me that people say otherwise. i clearly remember DB saying something similar to "drop her off anywhere. a church, fire department" among other times. when i see DB talk, it just seems so sincere to me. even when she admitted to being drunk. she did not appear defiant to me. she was defending her actions, yes. but i would do the same thing. just because she didn't say "i feel guilty about drinking" doesn't mean she doesn't feel guilty. i keep going back to the 2 hour interview with Megyn Kelly. we still haven't seen the entire thing. less that 15% actually.

at the same time though, i hesitate to judge DB's personality either way, because i do not KNOW her. i have only seen her very briefly in the grand scheme of her life, in the most STRESSFUL time imaginable, guilty or innocent.

there are some things that make me think DB may be guilty. i will not outline them here, because i feel that those things get enough attention.

bottom line is, i do not have enough information EITHER way. i would not be able to convict anyone with the information we have. i still think it is important to keep an open mind, heart and eye. i hope the boy's don't have people at school telling them that their mother killed Lisa.

most of all though, i am sick of the SPIN. from ALL parties. i am just waiting for the truth, and i'm not sure that will ever come.

 

[Whisperer]

Many of us have been down this road way too often. I have been in the system and have seen the worst of the worst. Yes, I am jaded. I am going on statistics. Anyone who cares to offer up another perp is welcome and all ideas are important.

I just posted my opinion on Jersey...any thoughts?

 

[tink92]

Many of us have been down this road way too often. I have been in the system and have seen the worst of the worst. Yes, I am jaded. I am going on statistics. Anyone who cares to offer up another perp is welcome and all ideas are important.

I just posted my opinion on Jersey...and thoughts?

So if we go purely on stats...wouldn't we ALWAYS blame the parents in missing child cases?

That would never sit right with me.

 

[Whisperer]

Askfornina...we will never get the things you have asked about. I haven't seen that except with the Anthony case because Florida is a Sunshine State. For all the solid evidence, there were about 17 people willing to not see it or believe it.

I think it comes down to the person's frame of reference. Some people don't trust Police. I do. It is my opinion that an innocent parent doesn't need a criminal defense attorney. Criminal Defense Attorneys shut down investigations. It was important for these two people to be defended...in fact it was more important than letting LE do the job they have to do to find Lisa.

A parent who wants to find their child would demand to be cleared. They would not refuse to talk to the people who can find him/her.

This appears to be the line in the sand where posters make the decision. Some are defending the parents rights. I don't give a hoot about their rights. I care about Lisa's rights and she doesn't have anyone fighting for her. IMO, these parents are way too concerned about their status and are hiding behind TWO attorneys.

 

[Whisperer]

So if we go purely on stats...wouldn't we ALWAYS blame the parents in missing child cases?

That would never sit right with me.

Sure would and do...till they are cleared. That is why they have to press hard on the parents, clear them and move on to the next likely suspect. Keep in mind DB failed her poly, according to her. They cannot move forward in this case. The parents are not cooperating...with clearing themselves. If they are innocent, they are going about this all wrong...and it is highly suspect.

 

[askfornina]

Askfornina...we will never get the things you have asked about. I haven't seen that except with the Anthony case because Florida is a Sunshine State. For all the solid evidence, there were about 17 people willing to not see it or believe it.

I think it comes down to the person's frame of reference. Some people don't trust Police. I do. It is my opinion that an innocent parent doesn't need a criminal defense attorney. Criminal Defense Attorneys shut down investigations. It was important for these two people to be defended...in fact it was more important than letting LE do the job they have to do to find Lisa.

A parent who wants to find their child would demand to be cleared. They would not refuse to talk to the people who can find him/her.

This appears to be the line in the sand where posters make the decision. Some are defending the parents rights. I don't give a hoot about their rights. I care about Lisa's rights and she doesn't have anyone fighting for her. IMO, these parents are way too concerned about their status and are hiding behind TWO attorneys.

bbm. i realize that. which is why i said in the last line of my post, "i am just waiting for the truth, and i'm not sure that will ever come." if that is the case, then so be it. i may never be able to make an independent determination based on all the evidence. if that is the case, i'll leave it up to a jury, if this case ever gets to that point.

as far as the rest of your post, i respect your opinion but i do not agree on most of your points. different strokes for different folks. i don't want to argue with you- i actually don't want to argue with anyone about this case. i'm just posting links whenever possible, and going where the wind takes me.

:fence::fence::fence:

 

[Whisperer]

Looking at the cast of characters in this case, I see more and more possibilities that SODDI than I do that it could have only been DB or JI.
What puzzles me is why everyone takes anything a neighbour, friend, or stranger says as gospel while everything DB or their attornies say as spin, lies etc. If it were a neighbour that committed this crime do you expect them to come forward and admit it?
Jersey had full rein of the neighbourhood. The new kids on the block, Shane and Dane we know nothing about but yet seem to have some connection at least. Then we have a disgruntled estranged husband of SB who blames DB for the break-up of his marriage according to some.
Though some may want to excuse all these people they are willing to suppose DB hunted down a stray cat to wipe the floors with in hopes of masking the smell of death. I guess that must be reasonable to some but sounds a bit far fetched to me.

Can you give motive for any of these characters to steal a ten month old baby and walk around the neighborhood with her?

 

[Whisperer]

I just read a post on another page of this thread that suggested the perp made a call from the cell phones to MW. If it was so important to talk to this person, why didn't the perp use the phone that was working?

 

[Hopeful2]

Many of us have been down this road way too often. I have been in the system and have seen the worst of the worst. Yes, I am jaded. I am going on statistics. Anyone who cares to offer up another perp is welcome and all ideas are important.

I just posted my opinion on Jersey...any thoughts?

One thought I've had since he came "out" is JB (drinking buddy's husband). There are a lot of coincidences in this case, but to me this one really stands out- first night being separated out of his home, away from his wife (who seemed to be doing alright having a little drinking session w her neighbor) and daughter. Eye witness account or not, he us still on my radar. Who knows who his alibi was, apparently a friend close enough to let him bunk on his couch for the night. His DNA would be at the home, I assume. The dog would know him. Lisa would know him. Did he think suspect JI having a relationship w SB? Was he trying to access VM to check on this?

I agree DB is acting guilty in many MANY ways. But JB is still on my radar. MOO

 

[Whisperer]

What happened at 10:30pm that night? JI was due home. Did he try to call DB on her working phone? Wasn't he concerned if he didn't reach her? Wasn't she concerned that he wasn't home when he said? He was at least five hours late getting home. What a coincidence that he worked OT and the perp took the baby on his first night shift. A mother who is blacked out (she would know if she blacked out) or passed out. She doesn't hear the monitor, the boys don't wake up and a stranger is walking around their home.

One has to admit that this is a strange set of coincidences. This perp was one of the luckiest peeps in the world. He should play the lottery.

....many don't believe in coincidences when it comes to crime.

 

[Whisperer]

One thought I've had since he came "out" is JB (drinking buddy's husband). There are a lot of coincidences in this case, but to me this one really stands out- first night being separated out of his home, away from his wife (who seemed to be doing alright having a little drinking session w her neighbor) and daughter. Eye witness account or not, he us still on my radar. Who knows who his alibi was, apparently a friend close enough to let him bunk on his couch for the night. His DNA would be at the home, I assume. The dog would know him. Lisa would know him. Did he think suspect JI having a relationship w SB? Was he trying to access VM to check on this?

I agree DB is acting guilty in many MANY ways. But JB is still on my radar. MOO

Great post. Good thinking going on...I can see why he is on your radar..

What would be the motive for stealing a baby? That is where many of us hit a road block.

 

[Hopeful2]

Good thinking going on...I can see why he is a on your radar..

What would be the motive for stealing a baby?

There has been one more piece of info about JB on other sites that would give him a motive, but as far as my research goes I have not seen it varified. So it's rumor for now. But I would bet anything GA has it in his report to the police and what has swayed his thinking.
So first- revenge.
Second- making up for a personal loss of his own. My theory only, obviously.
And I agree, Whisperer, there are SO MANY coincidences in this case.

 

[Whisperer]

Who's GA...these initials are killing me. My brain just can't adjust. I need to print up a list...reminder note to self.

 

[Whisperer]

I suppose a man would kill a baby or take a strange baby for revenge. I have entertained the thought of Sean B because the baby is his legally and he never gets to see his son. However..that would mean I would have to be convinced he is psycho. I know nothing about him.

I think a man killing a strange baby is rare. I have seen it but it mostly involved a raging psycho...and they aren't good at hiding their psychosis or their victims.

 

[Hopeful2]

Whisperer, GA is Gil Abeyta- the dad who's infant was abducted by his mistress.
I actually don't think JB would kill baby Lisa in this stranger abduction theory. I could argue this case from either side, but this stranger theory has at least kept my mind busy while waiting for Lisa news.

 

[Whisperer]

I'm not up to par on GA. Did his mistress get charged and is she in prison? I thought the case went unsolved but now I'm not sure. Thanks.

 

[Hopeful2]

I'm not up to par on GA. Did his mistress get charged and is she in prison? I thought the case went unsolved but now I'm not sure. Thanks.

As far as I know they didn't have enough evidence on her. I can get links and verify his case if you want. But he was the man who independently came to help find out what happened to Lisa. He submitted a 7 page (I think it was 7) report to the KCPD citing why he believes JB is guilty. I have had JB as my prime SODDI (some other dude - I know u hate all those letters )since before that. I don't know what Gil found out but I imagine it is more than I have read. I am not saying he has any more insight than anyone else (besides LE), but I do wonder what he found out.
ETA: sorry for any spelling errors, am on my smart phone and my fingers are larger than the keys