Who Killed Jon Benet Ramsey? Poll

[Foreign Faction]

Welcome songdog and attyjay. As a relatively new poster, who mostly is a Columbine researcher, with just a passing interest in the JBR case, I think that the more you learn and explore this website and the plethora of postings, the more you'll see (as I did), that the IDI theories just do NOT hold any water.
The only issue here really is figuring out which RDI, TBPFH. I tend to lean towards BR whacking her on the head and either PR and/or JR administering the lethal garroting, and the PAINFULLY obvious staging scene and ridiculous RN (authored by PR).

 

[Tadpole12]

JR mentions that, last seen, a Barbie wore a "shiny pink night gown thing".
I thought the wine cellar doll might have been wearing a red dress with white trim?
'88 Holiday Barbie (Big hair)
http://thumbs1.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/m/mj5YB8zxjq4aj8ikuPoO1Og.jpg
or ?
Is it white rope tied around the Barbie?

 

[CoreyRocks]

I believe JR killed Jonbenet. I believe he was molesting her and I believe he alone killed her. IMHO he seems like a total controller and I know many believe
PR did it in a rage. I do not think so. Based on their reactions and almost 20 years of information.

I think JR had PR under his thumb. She was written up in Woman's Day earlier that year as a stellar woman committed to her family. I feel she was a Stepford wife submissive to her husband. He programmed her after the death to go along with him all the way.

She loved her children, even rallying for a school.

I think her loyalty to JR was misguided, and feel she was lonely and insecure, but took his secrets to her grave.

She came off as tough but I feel that was a fascade. She was afraid.

She was under JR'S control the entire time.

Jonbenet ' s death devastated her, so she but on an Academy Award worthy performance of whatever John wanted. John wrote the entire script.

He either dictated the RN and had PR write it verbatim OR he wrote it to sound like her. Perfect setup .... convince many it was PR the entire time so he would be off the hook.

Even the practice RN starts would lead one to think it was PR, but that is what JR meant for it to do. That is why he left that page there.

It worked. Most blame PR or BR.

I am voting JR all the way. He had EVERYTHING it would take. He had the POWER over the other three in the house.

Everyone says oh PR'S paintbrush, and fibers, and tape ...JR can play dumb but he lived in the same house with the same access to PR's things. He set her up imho and it worked like I said.

Look at who had the POWER!!!

 

[AndHence]

One thing I feel gets overlooked is John and Lou's conversation about how JonBenet looked when John found her. They both arrive at the description that she was wrapped 'like a papoose'. However it is a matter of record that when JonBenet was found by John and Fleet her arms were straight above her head. This is not how someone who is wrapped like a papoose would appear. We know that rigor mortis had long since set in, so there is little chance that John would have been able to move her arms into this position. What do you think accounts for this discrepancy? Like anything in this case it could mean something, it could mean nothing.

 

[Justice2016]

I believe JR killed Jonbenet. I believe he was molesting her and I believe he alone killed her. IMHO he seems like a total controller and I know many believe
PR did it in a rage. I do not think so. Based on their reactions and almost 20 years of information.

I think JR had PR under his thumb. She was written up in Woman's Day earlier that year as a stellar woman committed to her family. I feel she was a Stepford wife submissive to her husband. He programmed her after the death to go along with him all the way.

She loved her children, even rallying for a school.

I think her loyalty to JR was misguided, and feel she was lonely and insecure, but took his secrets to her grave.

She came off as tough but I feel that was a fascade. She was afraid.

She was under JR'S control the entire time.

Jonbenet ' s death devastated her, so she but on an Academy Award worthy performance of whatever John wanted. John wrote the entire script.

He either dictated the RN and had PR write it verbatim OR he wrote it to sound like her. Perfect setup .... convince many it was PR the entire time so he would be off the hook.

Even the practice RN starts would lead one to think it was PR, but that is what JR meant for it to do. That is why he left that page there.

It worked. Most blame PR or BR.

I am voting JR all the way. He had EVERYTHING it would take. He had the POWER over the other three in the house.

Everyone says oh PR'S paintbrush, and fibers, and tape ...JR can play dumb but he lived in the same house with the same access to PR's things. He set her up imho and it worked like I said.

Look at who had the POWER!!!

Agreed. Which is why he's always smiling like a cheshire cat in those interviews. Always the affable one. True NPD - no nerves at all, fully in control. And I trust Linda Arndt who was there & experienced the emotional activity in the house that day not just the physical. She spoke out from the heart and was extremely brave! She went out on a limb.

When she says he was "cordial" she was telling us that he was NPD. He was emotionless.... that's what NPs are. They don't feel a thing.
Linda was terrified to be alone with him which is why she was mentally counting how many bullets she had left in case he attacked her. (she spoke of a frightening exchange between them - eyes meeting eyes, a threat)

And what father puts his dead older daughter's pics in the bathroom! Bedroom or living room, sure but bathroom? Masturbatory episodes - sorry to say it but there it is!!

Patsy was sick too and probably borderline-narcissist combo but not as NP as JR.

And if you google JR today you'll find him happily married to some new patsy scuse the pun and horseback riding in his new business in Colorado or something. NPDs move on fast. they never feel sadness never mind guilt.

 

[Justice2016]

One thing I feel gets overlooked is John and Lou's conversation about how JonBenet looked when John found her. They both arrive at the description that she was wrapped 'like a papoose'. However it is a matter of record that when JonBenet was found by John and Fleet her arms were straight above her head. This is not how someone who is wrapped like a papoose would appear. We know that rigor mortis had long since set in, so there is little chance that John would have been able to move her arms into this position. What do you think accounts for this discrepancy? Like anything in this case it could mean something, it could mean nothing.

It simply means we cannot trust a thing out of that man's mouth. Either man actually. LS was involved in some freemasonic church with JR. they swear allegiance & a code of silence to each other over family country or religion. It's a mafia thing.

 

[Justice2016]

John and Lou bond as Christians.
.

Pre-bonded as freemasons - sworn allegiance to keep secrets &loyalty to masons over family country or church

 

[UKGuy]

Welcome songdog and attyjay. As a relatively new poster, who mostly is a Columbine researcher, with just a passing interest in the JBR case, I think that the more you learn and explore this website and the plethora of postings, the more you'll see (as I did), that the IDI theories just do NOT hold any water.
The only issue here really is figuring out which RDI, TBPFH. I tend to lean towards BR whacking her on the head and either PR and/or JR administering the lethal garroting, and the PAINFULLY obvious staging scene and ridiculous RN (authored by PR).

Foreign Faction,
Although you can produce evidence and scenarios for each of the remaining residents in the Ramsey household, they do not explain away the anomalies and counter-examples, over the years you tend to see people exhibiting confirmation bias when promoting their favorite RDI theory. Consider the books written each with a well thought out theory suggesting it was either PDI, JDI or recently BDI, they cannot all be correct.

Consider this we assume JonBenet was killed around midnight of the 25th, so if it was one of the parents they had all night to cleanup, e.g. run all JonBenet's forensically contaminated clothing through the washing machine, why was this not done, why elect to dump a bloodstained pink nightgown into the wine-cellar and destroy a staged crime-scene?

Why did John or Patsy not cleanup the breakfast bar, or even insert that JonBenet snacked pineapple prior to going to bed, into their version of events?

We know that Patsy can invent accounts since she has one regarding the size-12's, yet there were no size-12's in JonBenet's underwear drawer, so why did Patsy not place the size-12's into JonBenet's underwear drawer, so to match her version of events, answer: because she was ignorant about the size-12's.

Then there are the hair ties on JonBenet's head. When did they arrive, after she was put to bed sleeping by Patsy, or after she was killed?

This all suggests to me, since I reckon if the case was either PDI, JDI or both then the crime-scene would be more consistent with the R's version of events, that the parents arrived late on the crime-scene and enacted a quick cleanup and staged JonBenet's death.

BDI is the only theory that explains away nearly all the anomalies and inconsistencies, even down to Hunters behavior, and the GJ result.

.

 

[UKGuy]

The Ellie Butler case continues over here in the UK. What is interesting are the similarities to the JonBenet case: Head Injury caused by blunt force, skull fracture running from back to front, fluid running from the nose or mouth, a 911 police call with alleged acting by the parents, and of course a staged crime-scene.

This would have been an alternative on offer to the R's, i.e. report an accident and say JonBenet fell down the stairs?

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/lat...er-trial-court-dad-Ben-Butler-mum-Jennie-Gray

Prosecutor Ed Brown QC said Ellie died of "catastrophic" head injuries, inflicted while in the sole care of Butler.

Fractures to the skull ran all the way across her head from the back, with the fatal injuries inflicted "deliberately" and in a "brief but nevertheless devastating moment" according to Mr Brown.

https://reportuk.org/2016/05/04/ell...ims-peppa-pig-cartoon-fall-killed-tragic-girl

Ambulance crew member Penny Robson rushed to the scene after receiving the emergency call.

She told jurors of her “devastation” at finding “boggy mass” while repositioning Ellie”s head.

She said: “The whole area was soft. I did not feel any hard area at all.”

She went on to describe seeing fluid that “looked like tomato soup” coming from the child”s mouth or nose.

.

 

[Foreign Faction]

BDI is the only theory that explains away nearly all the anomalies and inconsistencies, even down to Hunters behavior, and the GJ result.

.

Thank you UKGuy, this is really how I feel about the case, deep down in my gut, and as a psychologist. I always revert to Occam's Razor when it comes to understanding, or trying to understand, this bizarre/profane/obscene case.

So, in your BDI theory, Burke also did the garroting, then? I have always had a hard time figuring out who actually did the coup de grace, so to speak. But as I have alluded to elsewhere in my relatively short time on this site, and you write above, the BDI theory explains the GJ result, Hunter's behavior, etc., all the way down to those (Arndt, Kolar, et al) who have hinted that even if discovered, the murderer will NEVER be prosecuted. JBR will never receive any justice. And that is the saddest thing of all.

 

[Tadpole12]

http://radaronline.com/celebrity-news/jonbenet-ramsey-police-interrogation-interview-tapes/

Explosive Secret police tapes Bow The Lid Off JonBenet Murder investigation
May 19, 2016

"The investigation revealed Patsy’s mental health was unraveling and her emotional problems had begun before her daughter’s sexually violated, beaten and strangled body was found in the basement of the family mansion.


The writing in a rambling note left by the killer — which experts said was very similar to her handwriting — looked “familiar.”
Patsy claimed she had no idea her bed-wetting daughter was sexually abused well before the night of the tragedy — and said she was “extremely surprised” and “shocked” when an investigator confronted her about the physical evidence during questioning.

About a year after Patsy was grilled at the Broomfield Police Department’s headquarters, a grand jury secretly voted to indict her — and husband John Ramsey — on two counts of child abuse resulting in the death of their 6-year-old.
The jury didn’t directly accuse JonBenet’s parents of murder — documents indicate John and Patsy were accused of putting their girl in a dangerous situation and helping an unnamed killer.
Boulder District Attorney Alex Hunter refused to sign the indictment, so no formal charges were brought. The Ramseys were later exonerated."


*******************************************

http://www.nationalenquirer.com/pho...er-confession-mother-videotapes/photo/157588/

NE
JonBenet's Mother Confesses - Police Video
May 10, 2016

 

[Justice2016]

The Ellie Butler case continues over here in the UK. What is interesting are the similarities to the JonBenet case: Head Injury caused by blunt force, skull fracture running from back to front, fluid running from the nose or mouth, a 911 police call with alleged acting by the parents, and of course a staged crime-scene.

This would have been an alternative on offer to the R's, i.e. report an accident and say JonBenet fell down the stairs?

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/lat...er-trial-court-dad-Ben-Butler-mum-Jennie-Gray


https://reportuk.org/2016/05/04/ell...ims-peppa-pig-cartoon-fall-killed-tragic-girl


.

If they had reported the incident the police would have found out about the sexual abuse. They had to create a story that would explain that away... ie intruder.

 

[Justice2016]

Foreign Faction,
Although you can produce evidence and scenarios for each of the remaining residents in the Ramsey household, they do not explain away the anomalies and counter-examples, over the years you tend to see people exhibiting confirmation bias when promoting their favorite RDI theory. Consider the books written each with a well thought out theory suggesting it was either PDI, JDI or recently BDI, they cannot all be correct.

Consider this we assume JonBenet was killed around midnight of the 25th, so if it was one of the parents they had all night to cleanup, e.g. run all JonBenet's forensically contaminated clothing through the washing machine, why was this not done, why elect to dump a bloodstained pink nightgown into the wine-cellar and destroy a staged crime-scene?

Why did John or Patsy not cleanup the breakfast bar, or even insert that JonBenet snacked pineapple prior to going to bed, into their version of events?

We know that Patsy can invent accounts since she has one regarding the size-12's, yet there were no size-12's in JonBenet's underwear drawer, so why did Patsy not place the size-12's into JonBenet's underwear drawer, so to match her version of events, answer: because she was ignorant about the size-12's.

Then there are the hair ties on JonBenet's head. When did they arrive, after she was put to bed sleeping by Patsy, or after she was killed?

This all suggests to me, since I reckon if the case was either PDI, JDI or both then the crime-scene would be more consistent with the R's version of events, that the parents arrived late on the crime-scene and enacted a quick cleanup and staged JonBenet's death.

BDI is the only theory that explains away nearly all the anomalies and inconsistencies, even down to Hunters behavior, and the GJ result.

.

HI. What if a seriously intelligent murderer made all the pieces point to B because they knew B could not be jailed as a minor anyway?

Also, when last did you ever hear of a young boy sexually abusing then killing his sister? There might be plenty. I haven't heard of any... and wouldn't there be a trail through B's life pointing to disturbing behaviour with girls? that's usually how it goes.

Also, if B was doing stuff to JB then why did she choose to climb in his bed and treat him as her favourite in the family? She went to him for comfort.

I can't rule BDI out but these are the things that incline me to not believe it.

 

[UKGuy]

HI. What if a seriously intelligent murderer made all the pieces point to B because they knew B could not be jailed as a minor anyway?

Also, when last did you ever hear of a young boy sexually abusing then killing his sister? There might be plenty. I haven't heard of any... and wouldn't there be a trail through B's life pointing to disturbing behaviour with girls? that's usually how it goes.

Also, if B was doing stuff to JB then why did she choose to climb in his bed and treat him as her favourite in the family? She went to him for comfort.

I can't rule BDI out but these are the things that incline me to not believe it.

Justice2016,

HI. What if a seriously intelligent murderer made all the pieces point to B because they knew B could not be jailed as a minor anyway?

Nope, since there would be no need to involve BR. All that would be required is airtight staging with no forensic evidence pointing to any of the R's. What we have is amateurish staging, with forensic aspects unknown to the parents, and those that are visible are not dealt with, e.g. pink nightgown size-12's, etc.

LHP the housekeeper, allegedly, walked in on JonBenet and BR playing doctors under the bedsheets, so intimate occurrences were not unknown, apparently JonBenet screamed at LHP to get out of the room?


Currently the best and most consistent theory is BDI, that is until some unknown nugget of forensic evidence surfaces implicating one of the parents, to date, nothing.

Oh and BR refuses to assist the Cold Case Review team, I wonder why?

.

 

[UKGuy]

Thank you UKGuy, this is really how I feel about the case, deep down in my gut, and as a psychologist. I always revert to Occam's Razor when it comes to understanding, or trying to understand, this bizarre/profane/obscene case.

So, in your BDI theory, Burke also did the garroting, then? I have always had a hard time figuring out who actually did the coup de grace, so to speak. But as I have alluded to elsewhere in my relatively short time on this site, and you write above, the BDI theory explains the GJ result, Hunter's behavior, etc., all the way down to those (Arndt, Kolar, et al) who have hinted that even if discovered, the murderer will NEVER be prosecuted. JBR will never receive any justice. And that is the saddest thing of all.

Foreign Faction,
There are multiple theories to account for JonBenet's injuries and only one of them is likely correct. I assume JonBenet was manually strangled then whacked on the head, followed with a ligature asphyxiation. One person may have carried out all three elements.

I reckon the addition of the paintbrush is staging, and the person adding it need not be responsible for JonBenet's death, i.e. she was already dead.

It's also possible that the missing piece of the paintbrush was deliberately inserted inside JonBenet as staging, or it formed part of an assumed postmortem assault by her initial assailant?

Disentangling the staging from actual bodily harm is difficult in this case. One perspective is to consider JonBenet's death as overkill, i.e. sexual assault, head injury and asphyxiation, then add in the macabre elements, i.e. the staging.

So it appears one person might have assaulted JonBenet, inflicting head trauma, and asphyxiated her, then attempted some degree of staging, along come the parents and amend aspects of the staging, adding and removing elements to suit their idea of a particular homicide?

I have speculated that JonBenet's head injury might have been a failed first attempt at staging her death, with the stager moving on to ligature asphyxiation, e.g. she was initially made unconscious by manual pressure on her vagus nerve.

I have always had a hard time figuring out who actually did the coup de grace, so to speak.

The forensic evidence suggests Patsy, since her fibers are embedded into the knotting of the ligature device. Although as I suggest above, Patsy may have been engaged more in creative staging than a ligature asphyxiation?

.

 

[singularity]

One thing I feel gets overlooked is John and Lou's conversation about how JonBenet looked when John found her. They both arrive at the description that she was wrapped 'like a papoose'. However it is a matter of record that when JonBenet was found by John and Fleet her arms were straight above her head. This is not how someone who is wrapped like a papoose would appear. We know that rigor mortis had long since set in, so there is little chance that John would have been able to move her arms into this position. What do you think accounts for this discrepancy? Like anything in this case it could mean something, it could mean nothing.

Overlooked indeed. Not just by Smit and John but in general. The description of how she was found doesn't match up with photos, especially her arms. Her legs were also exposed since Fleet touched her foot so this is one strange papoose.

I never bought the papoose description anyways.

I think what accounts for the discrepancies is evidence being held back and of course John not being truthful in how she was once finding her.

And what father puts his dead older daughter's pics in the bathroom! Bedroom or living room, sure but bathroom?

I thought this was a bit strange as well but not enough info ever came out about Beth or John's relationship with her.

Currently the best and most consistent theory is BDI, that is until some unknown nugget of forensic evidence surfaces implicating one of the parents, to date, nothing.

Oh and BR refuses to assist the Cold Case Review team, I wonder why?

How much forensic evidence supports BDI? If no evidence implicates John and Patsy I'd love to see the evidence they have implicating Burke that isn't a bowl of pineapple.

Burke refuses to assist? So does John. Does that mean its JDI now? I don't think Fleet is too keen on assisting them either. Does that mean its FDI now?

The reason none of these people are assisting is because they don't have to. Two theories are being pushed at this point. BDI and IDI. Everyone is off the hook so why waste any time talking to BPD? Even BPD isn't taking the case seriously. We know the DA isn't either. They already got away with it, Patsy's dead, and BDI/IDI just continues the status quo.

 

[UKGuy]

Overlooked indeed. Not just by Smit and John but in general. The description of how she was found doesn't match up with photos, especially her arms. Her legs were also exposed since Fleet touched her foot so this is one strange papoose.

I never bought the papoose description anyways.

I think what accounts for the discrepancies is evidence being held back and of course John not being truthful in how she was once finding her.

I thought this was a bit strange as well but not enough info ever came out about Beth or John's relationship with her.

How much forensic evidence supports BDI? If no evidence implicates John and Patsy I'd love to see the evidence they have implicating Burke that isn't a bowl of pineapple.

Burke refuses to assist? So does John. Does that mean its JDI now? I don't think Fleet is too keen on assisting them either. Does that mean its FDI now?

The reason none of these people are assisting is because they don't have to. Two theories are being pushed at this point. BDI and IDI. Everyone is off the hook so why waste any time talking to BPD? Even BPD isn't taking the case seriously. We know the DA isn't either. They already got away with it, Patsy's dead, and BDI/IDI just continues the status quo.

singularity,

How much forensic evidence supports BDI? If no evidence implicates John and Patsy I'd love to see the evidence they have implicating Burke that isn't a bowl of pineapple.

BDI explains more of the available forensic evidence than any other theory, including the behavior of Hunter, and various BPD personnel, not to mention the GJ wishing to indict the parents on assisting a homicide and child abuse. Presumably the GJ heard and saw evidence we know nothing about?

Who does that leave?

Other than BR's fingerprints on the bowl containing the pineapple, we have his touch-dna on the bloodstained pink barbie nightgown left in the wine-cellar. Also according to Kolar a pair of BR's pajama bottoms were left in JonBenet's bedroom, whilst JonBenet's pink pajama bottoms are missing, coincidence, or what?

All this links BR to the wine-cellar, breakfast bar, and JonBenet's bedroom!

.

 

[MURDERER_SERVANT]

And there is B's Swiss army knife in the corner of the wine cellar not to mention several questions to Patsy about B's similar knives in one of the interviews. I also consider the possibility of J trying to point the crime look like B's involvement similar to pointing fingers to Patsy , his work staff, a foreign faction or house cleaner in the RN.

 

[icedtea4me]

singularity,

BDI explains more of the available forensic evidence than any other theory, including the behavior of Hunter, and various BPD personnel, not to mention the GJ wishing to indict the parents on assisting a homicide and child abuse. Presumably the GJ heard and saw evidence we know nothing about?

Who does that leave?

Other than BR's fingerprints on the bowl containing the pineapple, we have his touch-dna on the bloodstained pink barbie nightgown left in the wine-cellar. Also according to Kolar a pair of BR's pajama bottoms were left in JonBenet's bedroom, whilst JonBenet's pink pajama bottoms are missing, coincidence, or what?

All this links BR to the wine-cellar, breakfast bar, and JonBenet's bedroom!

.

Are you able to prove with 100% certainty when Burke's t-DNA got on the pink nightgown, yes or no? Are you able to prove with 100% certainty that his t-DNA got on the pink nightgown during and/or after the bleeding, yes or no?

 

[UKGuy]

Are you able to prove with 100% certainty when Burke's t-DNA got on the pink nightgown, yes or no? Are you able to prove with 100% certainty that his t-DNA got on the pink nightgown during and/or after the bleeding, yes or no?

icedtea4me,
Nothing except death is 100% certain. Everything else is probabilities. Lets put it this way, BR's pajama bottoms should not be at a crime-scene, just has his touch-dna should not be at another crime-scene, i.e. wine-cellar, similarly for his fingerprint on the pineapple serving bowl.

Maybe there is an innocent explanation for these occurrences, but three forensic links looks a little suspicious to me.


.