Found Alive WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *Arrest* #39

[gitana1]

Yes. And yes. And yes. Caveat: based on the verified information available so far.

Then toss in- he was legally an adult, and (less relevant) not living with either parent. In our current system of mental health care, after the age of 18 he would have had to consent to mental health care of any kind, including meds, much less anything more restrictive.

Right. There might be much more we don't yet know about but until then...

 

[Ibiz]

Customarily, relatives of the victim sit behind the prosecutors and relatives of the defendant sit behind the defendant & his attorneys. Since JTP wasn't in the courtroom, it may not have been apparent where to sit prior to the beginning. No doubt seating was at a premium in that facility.

Yes.... I noticed they did have to reserve seats for the Closs family.

 

[ab01]

Interesting thought. Hasn't it been quite a few years since the whole family has lived there, thought? Mom supposedly left when JP was around 11. Am I correct about that? When did Dad officially move his residence from that house and how close was he living?

I think you are correct, about the whole family. But I do believe that in the not too distant past say within the last few yrs. there were more than just JTP living there. JMO and I may be totally miss remembering

 

[Ibiz]

Yes, that's what I recall reading as well. Seems that someone took a picture of this room and since it was a sketchy basement room certain news media took the picture and ran with it.

Yep... that is actually quite common with some news medias. They want to look like they have the "jump" sorta speak. So they take a shot at a guess, and hope it's right.

 

[Quill]

I think you are correct, about the whole family. But I do believe that in the not too distant past say within the last few yrs. there were more than just JTP living there. JMO and I may be totally miss remembering

You might be right. I think that particular timeline would be interesting to nail down, just for the reason of getting a snapshot of what his living situation has been at different developmental stages.

 

[gitana1]

Maybe JP's dad shouldn't try to bring her family a note in person. Just send them a letter. Or have a publicity person issue a family statement as to how they feel and their sorrow for Jayme and her family.

I would probably feel "triggered" if the dad of the person who killed my sister tried to approach me.

 

[gitana1]

I do not have a "smart phone"......... Does that make me a possible "time warped" future criminal ?.......Pommy, now you got me worried about myself..... I think I hear voices........?? ........MOO

LOL! Cody! You psychopath! How could you not have a smartphone!!!!

 

[Blueberry2720]

Legal question -- Since JP confessed to going to the Closs home 2X to get Jayme prior to the actual crime, can he be charged in any way for attempted kidnapping or such? I understand that in the overall scheme of things the charges wouldn't change anything else much, and also, LE has no proof JP actually did go to the house. I was just wondering if there could be any charges connected to his stated first 2 attempts.

 

[Hope4More]

Likely was going to eliminate her At some point... if not quickly then at minimum some point down road.... he wasn’t going to keep her till she’s 5 ft 9 and 18..

Would guess

And also would guess if she can’t be tied to you a lot of stuff was not out of ordinary for Wisconsin... and he’s got no $$$. If he wants to do again... you’ve got the stuff...

Stunned she lasted 90 days ... kudos to her ..
Glad she got out in time, maybe she could tell this only ends in one scenario unless I bolt..

If the report is true that he was looking for work, and if she was aware of that fact, she may have known that the odds were he'd kill her rather than taking the risk, every day, that she might escape while he was gone.

 

[Rhenish]

Insanity defense coming ???

I cannot think of any other defense other than an insanity defense or a defense related to some type of psychological/psychiatric diagnoses that may be used to "excuse" or mitigate his actions. If this case does go to trial, imo, it just reinforces how unremorseful he is, was, and continues to be.

 

[cody22]

LOL! Cody! You psychopath! How could you not have a smartphone!!!!

I have a "dumb flip phone". I do not answer texts or voicemails either.......Catch me if you can.....On Topic - I am so glad Jayme is safe.

 

[Seattle1]

I wonder if one of the neighbors of the pattersons home was referring to alot of people coming and going in referrence to when the whole family lived there and not referring to the last 88 days?

Good point-- that, and the number of vehicles parked on the property.

 

[SeekingJana]

Yes, one glaringly missing sign is no criminally history. I would think this will be a case of interest to future profilers, criminologists and psychologists. A rare escalation jump from nothing to armed B&E, double homicide and kidnapping. Although, the Parkland shooter had somewhere around 70 PD calls and there were certainly missed opportunities to see he faced criminal court proceedings. Perhaps we'll learn there were similar passes granted to JP. IDK. MOO.

I know what you're saying about the escalation of criminal behavior but it is argued among the experts dealing with Behavioral analysis that psychopaths are born, not made.
Most of us who have had to debate this issue of nurture vs. nature definitely see disorganization of family structure in childhood, see a child who either kills animals, sets fires, or soils their clothing years after they should have stopped in the absence of a physical problem.

I'm definitely thinking the handling of either live or freshly dead wild animals and at least one dog fits the first known abnormal behavior we associate with the development of psychopathy. We really do not know if the animals were " found dead" or tortured and killed..
He was only 21 years old when he was apprehended for crimes against the Closs family.
IF his first crimes were the double murders of the Closs parents, and the abduction of Jayme, and he'd gotten away, he'd have likely been in the news for another crime, or caught after commission of serial crimes against others for years.

I see him much like a bat in a dark cave right now. ( subject to change).
He's in his element in solitary, possibly darkened areas. He mostly hangs around the house and has food delivered. May have to make money on his own at some point if the Bank Of Dad dried up, but minimal income and minimal contact with a job involving close proximity to others. Maybe he'd try the work from home easy things.

When he isn't blending into the background like a bat does, and when the urges to act come, he strikes suddenly like the bat in the cave will do at night, catching the prey he can get.

We may think " Bats are fabulous"- Yes, they are generally beneficial to the ecosystem, but bats are one of the least controllable host animal vectors for Ebola transmission in The Congo. It's rare but it's deadly.
People all over the world die from rabies from an undetected bat bite. It's rare, but it's deadly.

This guy is a one- off, for sure, but he's deadly.
I think we all agree on his absolute oddness and the deadliness of his attack.
I believe his behavior, when known in more details, will be studied in depth due to what I see as unusual elements at this time ( subject to change) either during his lifetime or more likely, posthumously.

JMO as both a survivor of abduction and extreme violence, and a graduate in behavioral psychology.

 

[ab01]

Maybe JP's dad shouldn't try to bring her family a note in person. Just send them a letter. Or have a publicity person issue a family statement as to how they feel and their sorrow for Jayme and her family.

I would probably feel "triggered" if the dad of the person who killed my sister tried to approach me.

I absolutely agree! No matter the intentions of PP, I think it would be hard for a victims family not to have some hate for the perp and everything that is associated with him. I would think it would be too soon for me If I were in their position to want to have any sort of contact with them. Down the road maybe, some might feel differently but too soon IMO

 

[UKslueth2018]

Very thoughtful post, I agree completely.

The one thing I've personally had to work on the most since coming to WS is to really consider everyone's thoughts and opinions, whether I initially agree or not. My emotional response to such indignities can sometimes give me tunnel vision, but I've found myself rethinking my original reaction many times after reading the collective thoughts and experiences from posters here. It's the only crime related sight I post on because of the caliber of posters and the moderators.

Okay, now I'll stop musing too

And to me is what makes this site so great.. Perspective is due to experience but everyone is open to looking through another's eyes and that is because we have this space and it's awesome members xx

 

[bechk45]

I agree. Fair? I can think of a few "fair" scenarios. As far as I know this self confessed murderer, abductor and kidnapper who held a child hostage for 88 days isn't being forced to cower under a 2 foot bed surrounded by weights and hampers for hours at a time, so I would say he's being treated more than fairly. His attorneys may want to remember he's not only accused, he was more than happy to confess his crimes to LE and brag about them.

If the trial is moved to a different state, does that mean new public defender? Or do the WI public defenders have to go to that location?
I guess I wouldn't be shocked if an underpaid attorney were trying to get out of this train wreck of a case.

 

[Hope4More]

Maybe JP's dad shouldn't try to bring her family a note in person. Just send them a letter. Or have a publicity person issue a family statement as to how they feel and their sorrow for Jayme and her family.

I would probably feel "triggered" if the dad of the person who killed my sister tried to approach me.

FWIW, he didn't try to deliver a note directly to anyone. He apparently wrote a letter and took it to the Justice Center (whatever that is- the court, perhaps) the day after the 's appearance, hoping it could be passed on to the family.

 

[SeekingJana]

You might be right. I think that particular timeline would be interesting to nail down, just for the reason of getting a snapshot of what his living situation has been at different developmental stages.

I just wanted to say " Absolutely" regarding getting very clear information about his life and surrounding factors at different developmental stages.

 

[Rhenish]

If the trial is moved to a different state, does that mean new public defender? Or do the WI public defenders have to go to that location?
I guess I wouldn't be shocked if an underpaid attorney were trying to get out of this train wreck of a case.

He would keep his same attorneys (eta... at least a different venue for a trial would not necessitate that he would get different or new public defenders)

 

[Hope4More]

If the trial is moved to a different state, does that mean new public defender? Or do the WI public defenders have to go to that location?
I guess I wouldn't be shocked if an underpaid attorney were trying to get out of this train wreck of a case.

Trials can't be moved out of state. It's pretty rare for trials to even be moved to another county within the same state.