AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #12

[Skeinologist]

Again, trying to tread very carefully in what I say. But several things just aren't adding up to me from yesterday's press conference. I know several of you are of the opinion that there was some humanizing psychology behind the family members remarks, and maybe that's true , but to me it seemed like an appeal directly to Jayme to come home. If someone is being held against their will, why on earth would you speak to them as if they have some choice in whether or not they come home ? To me, that simply doesn't make sense. JMO. But moving on from that, why did LE wait so long to remove a mattress from the home if they believe it might contain evidence ?! This is what...day 10 ?! Are they just grasping at straws here, or did they discover something in the investigation that suddenly made them think, " Oh snap ! Better go get that mattress ! "

Sorry...these thing just don't make sense to me.

I agree. They spoke as if Jayme has agency and...some of the power. It spoke volumes to me.

 

[MsBetsy]

I hope this hasn't been rehashed too much but I am trying to organize my thoughts on the timeline.

Sunday afternoon: Denise and Jayme attend Jayme's cousins birthday party (I haven't seen mention if it is the ones in Barron or not), James does not attend

Denise and Jayme arrive home

~~12:31 Neighbor to the west hears two gunshots
12:53:26 911 call, dispatch reports yelling in the background
12:54:13 Call is ended
Dispatch attempts to call back and gets Denise's voicemail message. Dispatch then tries landline and it is “disconnected”
12:56:01 Three officers are dispatched to Closs house from the Sheriff's office
1:00:29 Officers report they have arrived on scene
1:03 Officer mistakes scene for suicide attempt (morbidly due to location of James's injuries I'm guessing)
1:05 Officer reports one male down multiple rounds fired
1:08 Officers begin to search house
1:11 Officers find Denise

@Wsbetsy proposed that neighbor may have mistaken 12:38 for 12:58 on the clock (which being seven minutes fast translates to 12:31 and 12:51 for the rest of us). If this is the case, the timeline to me makes a lot more sense.

I also had the same immediate thought as @Gardener1850 when law enforcement asked for vehicles in the area from 12:30 to 1:30. That range doesn't make sense if the vehicles were already on scene on 12:31.

If the shots were at 12:51, that means Denise calls 911 about two minutes later and and the perp/perps are only in the house for less than 9 minutes.

Very interesting the different views on the press conference. I still have yet to watch it, trying to catch up on so many posts here.

Yes, I do think the time may have actually said 12:58. It's easy to make the mistake especially if you are tired and since she had no reason to be concerned she would not have double checked to make sure. Or even forgotten the next morning, thinking it was 12:38 instead of 12:58. Now that you bring up the 12:30-1:30 time that LE gave, it makes even more sense. Why wouldn't they say from 12:00 from 1:30? This would certainly rule out the mystery of the twenty- five minute time span between the shots and the 911 call. Jmo

 

[mtnlites]

I think she looks devastated and like she's going through severe emotional trauma. Which she is.

Not insinuating that this is the case at all but, if it were me and my family had been murdered and my niece abducted, they'd have to pump me full of the good stuff before I could go on TV and do that kind of thing. The only way I could get through my son's funeral was because of the medicine I was on. Also, the brain has a weird way of working. It's almost like, during trauma, it shuts certain parts off because it's trying to protect you from an overload of emotions and thoughts.

 

[thesnowflakesparkles]

Assuming the original timeline is correct and there are 22 minutes between the first shots and the 911 call, I don’t wonder much about what was going on. Consider that from the time the cop sees James to the time he finds Denise is 6 minutes. And this is just finding two dead people and moving with some caution through the house. Now consider that the perp has 22 minutes between the first two shots to find and subdue two more people, kill one, and kidnap the other - people who could be hiding or barricaded. The timeframe just doesn’t bother me much if 22 minutes is actually correct.

The attack is so brazen that it doesn't seem to fit with someone who wants to get in there quickly and get out without being seen but then why would they be asking about only vehicles between 12:30 and 1:30? They don't care where the perp came from and only where he went or what happened right after?

 

[Wrenny]

Yes, I saw that too. It seems to have hinges (?) on (screen) left. I didn't think knick knacks though - I thought maybe a mirror and we might be seeing various evidence tags

Hutch. I thought it was photos displayed on the glass door. The only thing sure was a snowman below.

 

[klind55]

There were pumpkin window clings on the outside storm door, but I can clearly see what looks like a snowman on the bottom left (looks like he is holding a broomstick?).

Doesn't really make a difference case-wise and actually makes me a little sad.

Source:

Edit: screen shot is at :31 for reference

Yes, a snowman and just playing with the picture on my phone since I am not at the computer you can see other knick knack type items in the background.

 

[Wrenny]

In 5 min (1 min for call, 4 min to arrive) and Jayme is gone (seemingly without a trace).

7 minutes. 3/4 minute for the call, 1 3/4 minute for 911 operator to try calling back and get the address, 4 1/2 minutes to arrive.

 

[JaneEyre]

The attack is so brazen that it doesn't seem to fit with someone who wants to get in there quickly and get out without being seen but then why would they be asking about only vehicles between 12:30 and 1:30? They don't care where the perp came from and only where he went or what happened right after?

I agree that the 12:30 to 1:30 request bothered me as well.

 

[Mercedes]

I thought it was Halloween decorations, pumpkins, etc.

Makes me very sad to think she had Halloween decorations out and they won’t be there.

 

[Laffy Taffy]

Again, trying to tread very carefully in what I say. But several things just aren't adding up to me from yesterday's press conference. I know several of you are of the opinion that there was some humanizing psychology behind the family members remarks, and maybe that's true , but to me it seemed like an appeal directly to Jayme to come home. If someone is being held against their will, why on earth would you speak to them as if they have some choice in whether or not they come home ? To me, that simply doesn't make sense. JMO. But moving on from that, why did LE wait so long to remove a mattress from the home if they believe it might contain evidence ?! This is what...day 10 ?! Are they just grasping at straws here, or did they discover something in the investigation that suddenly made them think, " Oh snap ! Better go get that mattress ! "

Sorry...these thing just don't make sense to me.

They removed a mattress, nightstand and boxes when they went back.

I also noticed they were doing a lot of looking around the porch. Not sure if it’s significant.

IMO a cold blooded killer that just murdered 2 people, couldn’t care less about dehumanizing.

The family seemed cold. And appeared to be inticing Jayme with her dog, favorite drink, grandpa, etc. it was directed to Jayme. Almost as though they were reminding her of the things she loves. Possibly 1 of 2 reasons (1- to encourage Jayme to escape, give her strength to fight etc 2- simply just to ask her to come home)

 

[Mercedes]

When a child is missing, why doesn’t LE use words like “abduction”, “kidnap”, “taken”, “stolen”, etc. They know she is a young minor, yet don’t use these descriptors. Is this typically the case? A new policy? Is it only news outlets who use this language? I have always assumed what was printed comes from LE. This investigation has been a real eyeopener.

IMO, LE doesn’ want to “tick off” the perpetrator any more than he is.

 

[Wrenny]

1:03 Officer mistakes scene for suicide attempt (morbidly due to location of James's injuries I'm guessing)

My understanding was that as soon as the officer saw the door ajar and what appeared to be feet in the doorway, they reported a possible suicide/attempt and asked dispatch to get 1st responders staged. I don't think the officer had seen the injuries yet, and took the next 2 minutes to carefully approach & appraise.

 

[Mercedes]

They removed a mattress, nightstand and boxes when they went back.

I also noticed they were doing a lot of looking around the porch. Not sure if it’s significant.

IMO a cold blooded killer that just murdered 2 people, couldn’t care less about dehumanizing.

The family seemed cold. And appeared to be inticing Jayme with her dog, favorite drink, grandpa, etc. it was directed to Jayme. Almost as though they were reminding her of the things she loves. Possibly 1 of 2 reasons (1- to encourage Jayme to escape, give her strength to fight etc 2- simply just to ask her to come home)

Respectfully, I disagree, I think they appeared traumatized. The aunt holding the dog was trying hard to hold it together; her eyes were red and she could not have hugged the doggie more. The aunt who spoke was more stoic, but she had to deliver the message. I admire both of them for coming forth.

 

[natsound]

Thank you @PommyMommy for posting the chair pics.

I'm trying to figure out how the perp tied someone up here. One tie is tight on part of the chairback. The other is diagonally across the seat to the front of the chair. What's it tied to, and how can this configuration hold someone down? Unless the two ends were not tied together, but tied to something else.

 

[ACG2x]

It's a thought but they murdered her parents then kidnapped her away from her freedom so I don't think they care too much about her happiness. That's just my opinion though.

This for sure. When you abduct and hold someone captive, it's about what the perp wants, not Jayme. His desires, his wants, his etc. To most kidnappers, what their captives want is largely irrelevant; even kind gestures are typically done as a form of control and strengthening the mental hold on the captive.

For example, Philip Garrido would chain Jaycee Dugard up but then bring her milkshakes. This served two purposes - first it was a gesture that helped try to convince her that he was a kind person and second it made her totally reliant on him for food and thus life. Psychological hold over time grows stronger which can be the beginnings of Stockholm Syndrome but the ultimate needs that are fulfilled are that of the captor and nobody else.

 

[thesaint]

Maybe I've heard too many stories of late about people who sent their DNA into 23andMe type sites and were shocked to find out that they don't match one of their parents, like not at all....But maybe just to verify there isn't someone out there with a well-hidden secret paternal stake in Jayme LE could bag some of Jayme's DNA (hairbrush or whatever) and have it analyzed/compared. Far, far out of left field theory but one that might explain why they kept/took Jayme alive.

 

[Charliegizmo49]

That would make sense, but I haven’t heard anything that makes me think that these people could have been targeted for that particular reason.

They appeared to be hard working middle class Americans with no criminal connection.

We know very very little about their personal habits and anything else about anyone connected to them. We cant besmirch their memories

Hi PommyMommy... are these donations to go towards a reward or just general donations for the family?

It hardly matters. If one wants to donate then we each have the freedom of choice to do so.

This family is steeped in tragedy at this time. They are most likely in need due to the gigantic cost of a double funeral.

In addition they may not have access to funds the Closs’ had because if the probate law. They are probably looking at $20 k in final family expenses in the next few days. Additional heart break comes in the fact that Jayme has not been found.

 

[Le Singe]

In the beginning of the press conference....around one minute? I hear something high pitched around then.

lol

No bro a "dog whistle" is a figure of speech for a targeted message meant for certain people that most won't understand.

 

[Charliegizmo49]

Maybe I've heard too many stories of late about people who sent their DNA into 23andMe type sites and were shocked to find out that they don't match one of their parents, like not at all....But maybe just to verify there isn't someone out there with a well-hidden secret paternal stake in Jayme LE could bag some of Jayme's DNA (hairbrush or whatever) and have it analyzed/compared. Far, far out of left field theory but it might explain why they kept/took Jayme alive.

I’m one of those but found out in 1994 when my blood didn’t match the man I had been told was my bio father. A cancer treatment using interferon was being attempted in Florida. Imagine the shock at 40. I have never spoken to anyone outside my kids prior to this. And as the appropriate aged men die in my hometown I wonder if any of them were my bio father.

 

[HayLouise]

NCMEC‏Verified account @MissingKids

'Authorities offer $25,000 reward in case of missing, 13-year-old #JaymeCloss whose parents were shot to death https://madison.com/wsj/news/local/crime-and-courts/authorities-offer-reward-in-case-of-missing-wisconsin-girl-whose/article_69bd12b7-e6fd-532d-8740-16d676da77ff.html?utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=user-share … via @WiStateJournal'

NCMEC on Twitter

 

[Mandie K]

Thank you @PommyMommy for posting the chair pics.

I'm trying to figure out how the perp tied someone up here. One tie is tight on part of the chairback. The other is diagonally across the seat to the front of the chair. What's it tied to, and how can this configuration hold someone down? Unless the two ends were not tied together, but tied to something else.

IMO they are ties to seat cushions that alot of people have on kitchen/dining room chairs.