AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #15

[MassGuy]

If one points a powerful gun at someone at close range...it does not seem like one would need to be an expert shot or even especially skilled...jmo from a non-gun person in every way...

Especially a shotgun.

 

[OTPTarheel2018]

I don’t buy a sudden onset of conscience after a double murder.

What if the Closs house was targeted wrongly- wrong address-wrong male and wrong female killed- killers thought they’d done what they came to do and the killers recognized Jayme/knew Jayme from school or sports or Walmart or the local pizza place....maybe the killers have children and they are friends with Jayme...

JMO and wondering why no one has seen Jayme if the killers are on the run, but we don’t know if they’ve even left the area...

 

[BIC]

I have a few questions, that may seem really stupid at first, but I will explain my thoughts.
When LE asked the community to check their homes, buildings, etc. for anything out of the ordinary, how does LE depend on them to be truthful? Does LE search with the homeowners?
I ask these questions because I followed Jessica Lunsford’s case & I was just so heartbroken that she was right there, in the neighbor’s home, the whole time
I’m not saying Jayme is right there, in her neighborhood, but what if this perp is local & does have her in their own home?
I’m also not saying that the perp is a sexual predator. I still do not know what to make of her being abducted. MOO

If they ask people to check their property, there is at least a chance of finding something. If they don’t ask, it won’t help at all. Whether the perp is in that area or not, he’s not going to say anything either way, but others might find something worth while and report it. There is only so much LE can do as far as searching properties, and all the legalities that involves. IMO

 

[JohnTate90210]

If planned out in advance, perhaps the killer knew when James would arrive and hid in the yard to force him to open the door. Then perhaps things didn’t go as smoothly as anticipated and James broke free and shut the door.

Edit: a downside is where did the atracker park? That about kills this theory.

 

[debirlfan]

It’s possible. But they would have quickly realized their error. They have two options at that point:

Kill them all

Run

Killing and kidnapping doesn’t make a lot of sense.

That's just it - maybe they didn't realize their error. Maybe they kept demanding Denise tell them where the drugs/money was, and she kept insisting she didn't know what they were talking about. They may have killed her when they finally decided that either she wasn't talking, or there was nothing there.

As to the kidnapping - I believe Jayme called 911, the perps either heard 911 attempting to call back or had a scanner and heard the police call - at any rate, they now knew both that someone else was in the house, and police were coming. Jayme made a break for it out the back door (or the garage, or a window) and they went after her. When they caught her, they didn't want to shoot again because the police were coming, so they possibly hit her over the head and then threw her in the vehicle intending to dispose of her later.

 

[Warwick7]

Back in '96 some banged on my Mom and Aunt's door about one in the morning. He was demanding to be let in. My Aunt kept yelling thru the door he had the wrong trailer. She took her hunting riffle from the closet and aimed straight up and shot thru their own ceiling. He took off fast. This is the first thing I thought of with this case. However at Jayme's house they came weapon prepared.

 

[Gardener1850]

I have a few questions, that may seem really stupid at first, but I will explain my thoughts.
When LE asked the community to check their homes, buildings, etc. for anything out of the ordinary, how does LE depend on them to be truthful? Does LE search with the homeowners?
I ask these questions because I followed Jessica Lunsford’s case & I was just so heartbroken that she was right there, in the neighbor’s home, the whole time
I’m not saying Jayme is right there, in her neighborhood, but what if this perp is local & does have her in their own home?
I’m also not saying that the perp is a sexual predator. I still do not know what to make of her being abducted. MOO

LE cannot legally search private property without either permission or a search warrant (or immediate probable cause like a girl screaming for help). So, yes if they make a blanket request for people to check their buildings they have to essentially trust that people are going to do it. That said, we did learn that LE searched neighboring properties and businesses in this case. They would have contacted each business owner and home owner as they made their search. If any neighbors refused a search that would have brought added scrutiny on themselves and their property. I was encouraged to hear the sheriff say they have had people call in that own hunting cabins or seasonal cabins and actually requested that LE check their vacant properties for them to make sure she wasn't being held in one of those places. This is a town that is very alert and wants to bring Jayme home.

If a lone abductor is keeping her in his basement or his own personal hunting cabin, it is going to be harder to find her that is for sure. But locals and hunters can help by keeping an eye out for anyone coming and going a lot from a building that should be vacant. All they need is the right tip-- for someone to call in and say something like "I don't think my neighbor is acting right, ever since Jayme went missing, he is spending more time in his barn at night" or "Suddenly my neighbor's curtains are always closed even in the day time when he always kept them open before" or "I talked to so and so and asked if they wanted any help searching his land and out buildings to make sure Jayme wasn't there... immediately he changed the subject and asked me not to come back on his property again..." Some of these things may be nothing suspicious but all the FBI needs is an alert citizen and the right name. They just need the right tip from someone who noticed something and they will find the suspect (and hopefully Jayme too). JMO.

 

[Warwick7]

Also someone have the link stating the 911 call recorded at least 2 femails in distress. And something about yelling: "...put it down put down..."?

 

[BB71]

You know what you smell like after cleaning/gutting turkeys for 8-10 hours? I wouldn't wish that on any dog. Actually even with all the huge fans around Jennie-O the smell is not that pleasant.

Dogs like bad smells.

 

[crhedBngr]

Marking my spot.

 

[SarahThePrincess]

I g

They are ‘salt of the earth’ people. But we’re bory parents born and raised there?
Could they have been given identities through a witness protection program, when they were young and newly married? And then had Jayme, the whole time keeping their cover identities?
Because they say El Chapo can order kidnappings and murders of witnesses while he is in prison.
Maybe if they on somebodys’ list? They would have had to be actively looking for them.

I meant to type, “ Were both parents born and raised there!”
Autocorrect lives to confound me!

 

[SarahThePrincess]

Th

That sounds about as far fetched as the story about the farmer and the sheep in the Tibbetts case.

There were sheep?

 

[SarahThePrincess]

Does it state anywhere what her eye color is? Can you tell from the photos?

It does state her eye and hair color.

 

[BIC]

What if the Closs house was targeted wrongly- wrong address-wrong male and wrong female killed- killers thought they’d done what they came to do and the killers recognized Jayme/knew Jayme from school or sports or Walmart or the local pizza place....maybe the killers have children and they are friends with Jayme...

JMO and wondering why no one has seen Jayme if the killers are on the run, but we don’t know if they’ve even left the area...

After they take her they are still in the same predicament, and that doesn’t bode well for Jayme.

 

[BB71]

Many don’t want to believe the 12:31 shots but that’s our best timing. The witness likely looked at a digital clock or she’d have said 12:30. As much as we might want to change it, it’s what we have. Anything else is purely second-guessing and revising the best available evidence.

Why did it take so long to make a 911 call? What would have delayed it? Being Denise’s phone would Jayme even know where it was or have easy access?

And, for those familiar with 13-year olds. Jayme was likely asleep at the beginning. What would most young teens do if they were awakened by shots, screams and fighting? Charge out to investigate or what?

Can the ME tell the difference between 5 min and 25 min based on blood pooling, lividity, etc.?

 

[sleuther0192837465]

LE cannot legally search private property without either permission or a search warrant (or immediate probable cause like a girl screaming for help). So, yes if they make a blanket request for people to check their buildings they have to essentially trust that people are going to do it. That said, we did learn that LE searched neighboring properties and businesses in this case. They would have contacted each business owner and home owner as they made their search. If any neighbors refused a search that would have brought added scrutiny on themselves and their property. I was encouraged to hear the sheriff say they have had people call in that own hunting cabins or seasonal cabins and actually requested that LE check their vacant properties for them to make sure she wasn't being held in one of those places. This is a town that is very alert and wants to bring Jayme home.

If a lone abductor is keeping her in his basement or his own personal hunting cabin, it is going to be harder to find her that is for sure. But locals and hunters can help by keeping an eye out for anyone coming and going a lot from a building that should be vacant. All they need is the right tip-- for someone to call in and say something like "I don't think my neighbor is acting right, ever since Jayme went missing, he is spending more time in his barn at night" or "Suddenly my neighbor's curtains are always closed even in the day time when he always kept them open before" or "I talked to so and so and asked if they wanted any help searching his land and out buildings to make sure Jayme wasn't there... immediately he changed the subject and asked me not to come back on his property again..." Some of these things may be nothing suspicious but all the FBI needs is an alert citizen and the right name. They just need the right tip from someone who noticed something and they will find the suspect (and hopefully Jayme too). JMO.

I understand the legalities, it’s just really frustrating IMO

 

[BB71]

<modsnip - image without source link provided>

It does state her eye and hair color.

strawberry blonde hair/green eyes
Photo Source: Facebook

 

[Gardener1850]

Like the dairy farm that searched its own outbuildings

What is your source for that?

The timeline on page one says:
10/15/18 13:49:49 - responding officer requested to contact Anderson Dairy to advise them of a search of the area for a missing person. Requesting to park in their yard.
-------------
BBM. It sounds to me like responding officers went to the Dairy and searched it themselves. They contacted the owners to advise them LE would be searching and asked for permission to park there while searching. JMO.

Does another source say different? TIA.

 

[PommyMommy]

911 CALL

Fitzgerald said the 911 call came from the home, but no one was specifically talking to the dispatchers. Investigators are trying to enhance the audio for clues.
AMBER Alert: Jayme Closs, 13, missing after parents shot dead in Barron, Wis.

“We could hear yelling in the background on this 911 call. No one interacted with our dispatchers, so it was just kind of an open line where we could hear different things in the background.”
13-Year-Old Girl Missing After Her Parents Were Found Dead At Home

 

[Kimpossible31]

As they arrive, check them, not after a shift. Teams of dogs would be required, as their noses fatigue. My lab is retired from this work.

Could this still be done days later? I find the scent dogs fascinating and don’t know much about it.