AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #19

[Rosiebones]

No worries. You can click "reply" in the right hand corner of the persons post that you are replying too and it will include their post in yours, so everyone knows who you are talking to and the person you are replying too will be notified

So, as you said, like it could have been fueled by money?

Thank you for the help. Nobody, meth head or other, can drive down that highway in the middle of the night at the speed limit and randomly see that house and slow down and find that driveway and go on up to the house. Why would they do that? Nothing about that house invites a motive of robbery. That's why I think the choice of house was not random but perhaps the choice of victim was. The perp had just seen JC with something he wanted and followed him home and the simple robbery became a gruesome murder scene.

 

[MsBetsy]

I read the NYT article. LE says they followed up every lead and have nothing? So why not release the evidence you do have to the public? What is the reasoning for holding information to your chest. What benefit can that serve.? Personally, I want to see the autopsy information, the schematics of the house and location of bodies. Just to start ..

Someone may have already answered this, but according to LE, the reason they keep information "close to the vest" is to "protect the integrity of the investigation." There are important details that only the killer knows. They need to ensure those things match with what they know. Both from information they get from witnesses and from the suspect. This is especially important in the conviction and trial. They need to build a strong and solid case, leaving no doubt that this is the only person who could have committed the crime. When too many details are released to the public, it generally causes more harm than good. Jmo

 

[MissMYB]

Thank you for the help. Nobody, meth head or other, can drive down that highway in the middle of the night at the speed limit and randomly see that house and slow down and find that driveway and go on up to the house. Why would they do that? Nothing about that house invites a motive of robbery. That's why I think the choice of house was not random but perhaps the choice of victim was. The perp had just seen JC with something he wanted and followed him home and the simple robbery became a gruesome murder scene.

I just hope we get the whole story one day, this one is a real headscratcher.

 

[rainynights]

Paul Blume on Twitter | 12:03 PM (CST) - 5 Nov 2018

Ran into this Reporter in Barron, WI last week as the New York Times takes on the #JaymeCloss disappearance. 3 weeks now. Nothing. #FindJJayme #FindJaymeCloss

Sarah Maslin Nir on Twitter

 

[MsBetsy]

If Jayme made the call and was heard saying help, its possible a little girl voice is what made them sure she was home when the call was placed....

That's what I think. I think that's how they identified her voice. And/or her screaming or crying. Imo

 

[Mountain_Kat]

I've also wondered whether James frequented the nearby casino, and maybe someone became aware of him from there. It's interesting that he and Denise were married in Las Vegas. Was James a gambler ? I don't know. It's a possibility, I think.

 

[cluciano63]

The Bible/Freeman case came up several times here. Very similar except that the house was also burned down in that case.

 

[Nerissa]

One thing thought @ meth house neighbors is: did Jayme have occasion to be walking by there....from the bus stop, walking her dog, riding a bike..?

If so...whatever creeps hanging around there could have been seeing her almost daily....they're strung out, bee in their bonnets: they go steal her away...
And....possible they took her just down the street....and by morning had taken her elsewhere....
Just idea...

I have a psychiatrist friend who did some work in an area with multiple power plants...most of his patients were workers at these plants, having meth issues: they used it for energy for their shifts, to do overtime, or overnight, etc....their foreman generally would turn them onto it.....and they had all sorts of crazy silly nutso stuff they'd do when they were on it, but not working...

My friend didn't get it: take a drug so you play scrabble for 24 hours straight, or clean your furnace ducts..?? Yeah, very weird drug....

Another friend - was travelling: pulled over, good cell, so made calls, texts, etc....some meth head came out of a nearby house with a shotgun - freaked out & paranoid about his presence!

This same friend also knew of a nearby meth house: he'd point laser beams at the house to freak them out, lol - probably bad idea but...he said it was funny to watch....yeah: not saying I recommend doing that! In fact, pretty bad idea...this friend is a former special ops type military, search rescue, animal transport, forest fire fighter yadda yadda - kinda alpha adrenaline type...so, he was bored & liked screwing with them.......however, even being screwed with, these particular meth heads didn't go beserk....
But, the other day I asked him about this case: he said he found it totally reasonable that it could be crazy methed out people who are the perps....

 

[margarita25]

Thank you for the help. Nobody, meth head or other, can drive down that highway in the middle of the night at the speed limit and randomly see that house and slow down and find that driveway and go on up to the house. Why would they do that? Nothing about that house invites a motive of robbery. That's why I think the choice of house was not random but perhaps the choice of victim was. The perp had just seen JC with something he wanted and followed him home and the simple robbery became a gruesome murder scene.

Respectfully, I disagree that this is not an ideal location for a random home invasion. It’s along a main road, yet out of site. Perfect location, imo. Easy in and out with no witnesses, moo.

Again I’m not saying this was not a personal hit or Jayme was not the target. I just think anything is on the table, especially when considering the “violent home invasion” aspect.

As I’ve mentioned before, gangs, etc do head into the suburbs and less populated areas to commit crimes. And yes I know the family was not rich, etc., but they likely had guns. Which seem to be missing at this point.

At that time of night chances would be likely the occupants would be taken by surprise.

If some folks were out looking for trouble, this might be exactly the type of location they might be looking to target, moo.

Another aspect of this would be the expected response from LE—-maybe one small PD’s response vs. multiple in a big city would seem easier for them..I know that was an aspect in the burglary I experienced (perpetrated by gang members who came into the suburbs from the city, and do so commonly I later found out from LE, for exactly the above reasons I described).

 

[cluciano63]

I've also wondered whether James frequented the nearby casino, and maybe someone became aware of him from there. It's interesting that he and Denise were married in Las Vegas. Was James a gambler ? I don't know. It's a possibility, I think.

To me, taking Jayme negates almost all the scenarios where she is not the motive though.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

The Bible/Freeman case came up several times here. Very similar except that the house was also burned down in that case.

The glaring difference to me is that the parents of one of the victims in that case was a known drug user, right ?

 

[Mountain_Kat]

To me, taking Jayme negates almost all the scenarios where she is not the motive though.

I dunno, I can think of a few scenarios where she might have been taken during a random home invasion. Perhaps the suspect(s) realized Denise had called 911 and didn't want to risk the noise of another gunshot. Perhaps there was a sexual motive behind taking a young, pretty girl from the home of their victims. Perhaps there was a monetary reason for taking a young, pretty girl from the home of their victims. Hard to say what goes through the mind of anyone capable of kicking in the door of someone's home and killing two people inside.

 

[margarita25]

So how many cases can be named where a pedophile killed the parents in a home invasion? It seems the list is small (that we know of or that has been mentioned so far)...Hannah Anderson, The Shorts, what other cases do we even have for a comparative analysis.

On the same same note we could ask how many random home invasions resulted wth the child/teen being kidnapped. But if even if rare, it does not mean that this couldn’t occur, moo.

Burglary (IF James’ guns were stolen), murder, hard to put rape past someone like this.

 

[photographer4]

this, to me, is the closest of all of the others out there as far similarities. Pretty much identical. It would be so hard to link the 2. The Shorts owned a mobile home moving biz and there is a Mobile home moving biz about 10 minutes from the Closs residence. Other then that how can you even begin to link the 2.
One other thought. I agree with everyone else about the Red/Orange Challenger being a stupid car to use in a double murder. One thing to note is that a lot of people who own " muscle cars" do not drive them. A lot of people have them covered in their garage and rarely bring them out. Could be perp used this vehicle because most people didn't know he even owned it.

The whole family was often gone for long hours between work and school, regular hours. One would think it is better to burglarize an empty, isolated house even during daylight than to go in guns blazing armed robbery if theft of valuables was the motive.

Did Jim & DC have very new cars? His red truck is a standout. Sometimes when people inherit a little money they do go out and replace their old clunkers. Would nice, new cars in the driveway attract thieves in this area, or would their cars seem very normal?

Unless a perp lives alone,

I'm living on the hope that LE has very good reason (& I'd sure like to know the evidence) to believe that she is captive versus 'kidnapped'
Not sure what the official term would be...??

And the only reason they do not come right out with that belief is they do not want the perps to know this...they want them to feel relaxed and safe....so they mess up.........

That press conference is still peculiar to me: talking about frappucinos and Jaymes dog & etc.

Also find sheriff's statement in the NYT article that he keeps hoping he'll get a call in the middle of the night saying "We have her"...
Not, 'we have the suspects and Jayme is safe and unharmed'...

Suggests he believes that she can escape her captors and be found or that her captors just might release her....

Aside from this hope....the only rational conclusion is that, regardless of the 'why' of the crime: Jayme is deceased.....

This is where I'm at...and, for me, no point in posting more @ ideas or theories....
I hope the perps are located, and Jayme found safe & sound....

Actually that IS rather telling... "we have her"... it lends credence to my belief that LE thinks this involves more than one perp. Who is "we"?

 

[margarita25]

I dunno, I can think of a few scenarios where she might have been taken during a random home invasion. Perhaps the suspect(s) realized Denise had called 911 and didn't want to risk the noise of another gunshot. Perhaps there was a sexual motive behind taking a young, pretty girl from the home of their victims. Perhaps there was a monetary reason for taking a young, pretty girl from the home of their victims. Hard to say what goes through the mind of anyone capable of kicking in the door of someone's home and killing two people inside.

And additionally, as I’ve mentioned several times, if they knew LE was on the way after the 911 call (see an isolated location would minimize gun shots being heard, even though the neighbors did hear gunshots, but maybe they did not anticipate this idk)...maybe the Closs’ really fought back...anyway, another reason she could have been taken would be in their panic if they anticipated the likelihood of a possible a car chase, etc they would have a hostage for security. Yes the heat has been increased with a child abduction, but they might not have considered that at the time—-with or without Jayme being abducted LE would still be looking for them anyway considering the double homicide.

 

[CuriousMaine]

So how many cases can be named where a oenophile killed the parents in a home invasion. It seems the list is small? (That was know of or that has been mentioned so far)...Hannah Anderson, The Shorts, what other cases to we even have for a comparative analysis.

On the same same note we could ask how many random home invasions resulted wth the child/teen being kidnapped.

BBM: Joseph Duncan (Groene murders & kidnapping)

 

[photographer4]

Since they asked the public about seeing the VOI's in the area specifically between 12:30 and 1:30, maybe LE is giving us a big clue. We know the 911 call from DC's phone was at 12:53.

So can we infer that LE is indicating that Yes, the time frame of the crime really is fast based on their developed evidence, 12:30 or later until 12:54 ?

Compare to LE asking the public for sightings of the VOI's from 9:00PM or even from 11:30PM. LE gave that very tight timeline beginning with VOI's on the road at 12:30.

Actually, I just wanted to add that they didn't actually say the vehicles were on the road at any point (did they?). They said the surveillance came from private residences and businesses in the area. That almost makes me think they may have been seen both driving around town, and then maybe parked at a particular location for a period of time? That tight timeline really makes me think they parked somewhere but not at the house. Maybe a road nearby? Maybe a private driveway they turned around in?

 

[Herb.Wis]

To me, taking Jayme negates almost all the scenarios where she is not the motive though.

I agree 110%. Taking Jayme must be the motive in this crime. Nothing else makes sense. That seems obvious to me. That leaves the questions: Why? and Who? I think the "why" was sexual perversion or child bride or something similar. The "who" remains the mystery...

 

[Celt1997]

Unless a perp lives alone,


Actually that IS rather telling... "we have her"... it lends credence to my belief that LE thinks this involves more than one perp. Who is "we"?

I read it as he was referring to his fellow investigators/FBI agents. They were calling him to tell him that they/we had rescued Jayme.

 

[Statler]

To me, taking Jayme negates almost all the scenarios where she is not the motive though.

I feel like if they wanted Jayme, there would have almost certainly been other opportunities that didn't include murdering two people in an extremely risky home invasion. Kids have pretty set schedules. But criminals make illogical, strange decisions.