AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #19

[1987]

I have a ring doorbell pro.. and it’s not that expensive but I can tell the color of cars at night. I live in the city now. But, where I was before we had one motion camera towards the road so we knew when someone came in the drive. Also there was zero lighting and those cameras have pretty good night vision.

what kind of vision does it have beyond 80 feet at night without a porch light to help it?

I know there are great cameras out there, I just think for color you need light, as for night vision no color I have no doubts that very clear cctv could be had.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Can I just say this before I burst ? I am really having the worst time getting past the panty stealer. I know LE cleared him of any involvement in this crime, and I know they had good reasons for doing so, but seriously...what the hell are the odds of that kind of wacky crime happening in the very same home where 2 people were brutally murdered and their daughter abducted ? It's so friggin' weird that I keep catching myself coming back to this guy again and again, and each time I have to snap myself back to reality and remind myself that this guy was cleared by LE.

UGH !

 

[mama sleuth]

I still believe this was random and the Closs family just happened to be home. I don't think anyone was the intended target. 12:30 am on a Sunday - pretty sure my family is in bed even if someone is working the night shift - no worries, they will come in and lock up. We do it all the time. BUT if I hear a door being broken down and gun shots (in my HOUSE) in the middle of the night, I "think" & hope I would try to divert the situation to me in order to protect my kid(s) by yelling/screaming and telling them to RUN (maybe what is on 911 call & why they say Jamye was there at the time of the murders). My best guess, & with very little to go on, would be that Jayme did as her parents instructed and ran but was caught outside, put in a car and removed from the scene knowing the 911 call had been placed. Time will tell - hopefully.

 

[1987]

I feel sure the crime scene is telling LE a lot of the story, I don't need or want to know most of the details of what I can imagine it is telling, I just hope the story it tells comes together enough for LE to do something with it and find who done this.

 

[CuriousMaine]

Some seem to think the weapon being shot at the door was a shotgun which I respect those opinions but disagree .

I havent seen anyone in LE say what type and caliber was used. I don't think this had anything to do with hunting or being a hunter.

It didn't take hunting skill to do any of this. Look at how many murders are done yearly by those who never hunted at all. Way more than hunters. Jmoo

Only about 150 peolple per year use shotguns or rifles as their weapon of choice when using a firearm. Most use handguns and not long guns.

However personally I dont think a shotgun was used. The second shot was muffled. If a shotgun was used it's impossible imo to muffle the sound.

It makes more sense to me they came to the door with a high powered semi automatic handgun which would be easy to conceal. Like a glock 40 or something even of a higher caliber or even a .357 or.44 magnum.

That would be much easier to conceal by dropping the weapon down by his side when James came to the door totally unaware he was armed.

The second shot if done with a high caliber handgun would muffle thesound if the end of the gun barrel made direct body or head contact when shooting James.

Jmo though

I don't think LE will reveal the firearm(s) used, before trial. Statistically, you layed out the most plausible scenario, except for the Glock 40. That's a 10mm, they aren't very common, but certainly not rare, I guess either.

I'm not ready to rule-out the possibility of multiple firearms used, including a handgun and a shotgun. Shotguns are used for more than just hunting; self-defense and door breach also. Search youtube: "door breach with shotgun". It's a tactic, seen in some military ops and video games.

 

[Jabarn]

As time goes by, and relooking at some of the evidence, I do wonder if the attackers were known to the family.

Although it may not be apparent on the surface, there may be some person within the family’s circle, or extended circle, who took a liking to Jayme. In my opinion, that she is the family member not dead on the scene, is very important.

So two clues I am thinking about tonight:

1) Jayme was the target all along.
2) More than one person was involved in the murders.

I still believe this was random and the Closs family just happened to be home. I don't think anyone was the intended target. 12:30 am on a Sunday - pretty sure my family is in bed even if someone is working the night shift - no worries, they will come in and lock up. We do it all the time. BUT if I hear a door being broken down and gun shots (in my HOUSE) in the middle of the night, I "think" & hope I would try to divert the situation to me in order to protect my kid(s) by yelling/screaming and telling them to RUN (maybe what is on 911 call & why they say Jamye was there at the time of the murders). My best guess, & with very little to go on, would be that Jayme did as her parents instructed and ran but was caught outside, put in a car and removed from the scene knowing the 911 call had been placed. Time will tell - hopefully.

 

[whatsherface]

what kind of vision does it have beyond 80 feet at night without a porch light to help it?

I know there are great cameras out there, I just think for color you need light, as for night vision no color I have no doubts that very clear cctv could be had.

My porch light is never on.. and when cars pull up you can see a hint of color. My car is red and you really can tell it is.... And if the car had their headlights on , that’s enough light source too if a camera wasn’t as good. Maybe, its what I thought

 

[Jabarn]

Can I just say this before I burst ? I am really having the worst time getting past the panty stealer. I know LE cleared him of any involvement in this crime, and I know they had good reasons for doing so, but seriously...what the hell are the odds of that kind of wacky crime happening in the very same home where 2 people were brutally murdered and their daughter abducted ? It's so friggin' weird that I keep catching myself coming back to this guy again and again, and each time I have to snap myself back to reality and remind myself that this guy was cleared by LE.

UGH !

I agree... such an odd guy to turn up in the middle of all this. It seems he is just odd, though, based on the information available in MSM.

 

[CuriousMaine]

great explanation.. glad I looked at the other posts before I chimed in!

I’m thinking a shotgun was used and the reason why they haven’t mentioned the weapon used is because of how bad the crime scene was and they don’t want to say anything yet. Because there’s no denying what the shotgun would have done very fast and close range. Have they even mentioned that the casings or shells were still there? That would say premeditation also if there’s no prints on them because it would give you the thought of using gloves to load.

The only descriptive words I've seen used by LE was on the Dispatch Log: "multiple rounds spent ". That could mean shells or casings, IMO/experience. This was the Dispatchers interpretation from 1st responding officer over the radio, from very early on, before fully clearing the home. *Link: http://media.graytvinc.com/documents/barron+county+call+log.pdf

*Click circle-arrow in upper right corner 3 times to re-orient page.

 

[1987]

I don't think LE will reveal the firearm(s) used, before trial. Statistically, you layed out the most plausible scenario, except for the Glock 40. That's a 10mm, they aren't very common, but certainly not rare, I guess either.

I'm not ready to rule-out the possibility of multiple firearms used, including a handgun and a shotgun. Shotguns are used for more than just hunting; self-defense and door breach also. Search youtube: "door breach with shotgun". It's a tactic, seen in some military ops and video games.

I don't need to know but I am sure the firearms are part of what is telling part of the story to LE. I think a personality goes with each type and each cal. I also think this is where someone might talk in time. people like to brag about their kids, their cars, their homes, and their guns. moo

 

[Mountain_Kat]

I agree... such an odd guy to turn up in the middle of all this. It seems he is just odd, though, based on the information available in MSM.

Oh, I know. That's why it is so annoying to me that I keep randomly throwing this guy into the mix every now and then. I'm hoping that by spitting it out in a post, I can rid my brain of him, I guess. I dunno. SO...weird !

 

[Jabarn]

I feel sure the crime scene is telling LE a lot of the story, I don't need or want to know most of the details of what I can imagine it is telling, I just hope the story it tells comes together enough for LE to do something with it and find who done this.

The story is so critical to boil down. There is a story and hopefully the investigators are figuring it out with more clues than we have.

I sure would like to know what happened at that front door.

I do think this crime is solvable, especially if more than one attacker was involved.

 

[1987]

I know when some guns are bought new they come with a ballistics bullet, I have always wondered if the manufacture logs that ballistics info with serial num.

 

[gngr~snap]

@Mountain_Kat
I am with you!
Not to mention that it was reported to be something that upset the police!
Yes! Who walks into a murder scene for panties and undershirts from a disappeared 13 yo.
Didn't he say he thought "no one would notice"?
Well, Jayme would when she returns!!
Moo

 

[Jabarn]

I know when some guns are bought new they come with a ballistics bullet, I have always wondered if the manufacture logs that ballistics info with serial num.

I know nothing about guns at all. I would think having a serial number on the shell casings would be helpful and deter crime, but doubt that will happen in our life time. Someone with better understanding could chime in.

 

[CuriousMaine]

I don't need to know but I am sure the firearms are part of what is telling part of the story to LE. I think a personality goes with each type and each cal. I also think this is where someone might talk in time. people like to brag about their kids, their cars, their homes, and their guns. moo

They're tools. Different ones for different jobs. You don't cut wood with a screw driver, and you don't use a saw to turn a screw.

 

[MsBetsy]

The only descriptive words I've used by LE was on the Dispatch Log: "multiple rounds spent ". That could mean shells or casings, IMO/experience. This was the Dispatchers interpretation from 1st responding officer over the radio, from very early on, before fully clearing the home. *Link: http://media.graytvinc.com/documents/barron+county+call+log.pdf

*Click circle-arrow in upper right corner 3 times to re-orient page.

Although on the first day it was reported that the sheriff said they were bullet casings, according to WAEU 13. Several posters have questioned if LE would have used that term if was a shot gun that was used. I asked about it several threads ago but I dont know if anyone answered.

 

[1987]

I know nothing about guns at all. I would think having a serial number on the shell casings would be helpful and deter crime, but doubt that will happen in our life time. Someone with better understanding could chime in,

the firearm is leaveing its finger print by the mark it makes when fired. shotgun wouldn't leave much for ballistics but the mark on the shell from being fired will. I just know the little envelope with the ballistics test bullet that came with one of mine has its serial num on the envelope, I just don't know if manufacture keeps any record.

 

[SharonNeedles]

I've been hesitant to share my complete thoughts on this, but tonight I think I will. I'll preface by saying it's my opinion only of course. I believe the turning point in my thinking was getting past the shock that a 13 year old girl was abducted.

Digging a bit deeper into what's going on in Barron County, it's obvious they have both a meth problem and an unusually high concentration of sex offenders. Despite what was discussed earlier about Mexican Cartels supplying meth, a quick google search shows plenty of "manufacture and distribute" examples - that's the home grown stuff. And the sex offender to resident ratio is 80:1 in the city of Barron - that's staggering.

I was also surprised at how many of the drug cases I found involved Confidential Informants. There's enough publicly available info to establish Barron County has been cultivating a Confidential Informant program for years and making a concerted effort to infiltrate their local drug underground, something I didn't expect to find in a county of only 45k people. There's even a case where one of their confidential informants was setting up fake drug deals, implicating innocent people and pocketing the money from controlled buys. Dealing with CI's can be tricky, no idea where their loyalties lie and what their motivations are.

But in the case of sting operations that lead back to a manufacturing and distribution network within the local area, whoever doesn't get caught up in the first sweep is left wondering who snitched, what they know, and who else is going to be implicated. This is the situation I believe led to the Closs murders. You've got snitches that can't admit they're snitches and they're eager to point the finger at anyone other than themselves. It could be as innocent as a friend that James had a beer with was in a position to know something. Regardless, there would now be dangerous people with a whole lot to lose that need the snitch silenced.

My theory is that somebody at risk of being implicated in one of these drug raids wanted this killing believing either James or Denise had provided information. Using people not local but already involved in the flow, I'm comfortable assuming that whoever showed up to kill James and/or Denise is already a pretty deviant person and grabbing the girl was opportunistic.

Okay, again - My Opinion Only.

 

[Jabarn]

Although on the first day it was reported that the sheriff said they were bullet casings, according to WAEU 13. Several posters have questioned if LE would have used that term if was a shot gun that was used. I asked about it several threads ago but I dont know if anyone answered.

So, as someone who doesn’t really know much about guns, I do believe I understand a shot gun sprays pellets. Can someone explain? TIA.