AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #19

[Al Ka]

RBBM. Lots of families get together for lunch or dinner every Sunday as a matter of tradition. Perhaps it is less common these days? I saw my grandparents and cousins at least once a week for the family dinner growing up. If one of my cousins had a birthday that week then the meal included cake and ice cream and singing happy birthday. That said, I'm confused as to why this family gathering could be significant to the crime. A Sunday family gathering for a cousin's birthday sounds pretty common, mundane almost. Can either of you enlighten me as to why you think it could be significant? TIA

(as long as your thoughts are within TOS, of course, if not just ignore me and I won't take offense at all )

Very niceley said and I agree however last 24 hours are always the most important and always looked at every victimology of the deceased person. That gathering happened in that time frame, just hours prior in fact, so it must be looked at. And I am very sure LE did.

One member here stated somewhere in previous threads that after this party finnished, it spilled and some went to continue at different place. That did cought my eye as I have never seen it mentioned anywhere before. Not sure who post it, in which thread and if there was a link but I will try to somehow search for that post.

You also have to consider that Mark Furhman in interview with Fox stated that he believes the evidence shows that Denise was the intended target. He must have unknown to us reason for that thought. That theory would also wipe out many brought up theories aleady here by most members pointing to Jayme as a target.

Going from all above, it does make one question and rethink all things known so far. Not saying this what happened but it could and gathering on that day should be definitelly considered.

Here is quote and link about Mark Furhman

Okay I know some of you may not care for Mark Furhman at times including myself but the thread was closed at the time he was being interviewed on Fox.

Since he spoke I can't get out of my mind what he said because it ALL made so much common sense and none of it I had ever even considered.

Anyway for those who may be interested I will try to post it in my own words for you.

He said he believes the evidence shows that Denise was the intended target. Here is the clear reason he gave. If James had been the intended target the mission would have been over right at the front door with no need to enter the home. They would have shot James and quickly left probably before Denise could have even seen who it was.

But he said they purposefully went inside to murder Denise. He also said the crime scene can reveal who may be the intended target. Such as if one victim suffered more gunshot wounds than another victim. Or if one victim had other type of injuries done by the killer beyond the gunshots themselves.

He said he does believe that Jayme has been killed and thinks the police know that too and know they are in recovery mode now.

He also said this which makes sense to me. He said the experts on the ground have the ability in less than a day's time to know if there are any vehicles in this county of 45000 that matches the 2 vehicles in question.

So he thinks the police already know the vehicles aren't from the county this happened in. He said they will go county by county searching the DMV data base looking for possible matches and interviewing anyone who may own the same type of vehicles crossing them off one by one.

So what do all of you think about this? I found all of it so facisinating. Jmo though

AMBER ALERT - WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #11

 

[BB71]

Guns are far, far FAR more valuable then meth.

Because distribution/attempt
to distribute arrests in Barron County have gone up in the county by 538% in recent years, and that is not true everywhere.
Source: Publicly accessed Barron County arrest data, link posted previously by me.

But you’re right...there
may be no link other than an increased
criminal element in area and it’s ripple effect.

 

[Al Ka]

Good information. I’m suspecting that the 13k probably went to pay off the financial judgment against her in the past (referenced in some early threads).

Judgement was around 2010 (if I remember correctly) and settled at that time too, so it would not be for that. (in my humble opinion)

 

[BB71]

Very niceley said I agree however last 24 hours are always the most important and always looked at every victimology of the deceased person. That gathering happened in that time frame, just hours prior in fact, so it must be looked at. And I am very sure LE did.

One member here stated somewhere in previous threads that after this party finnished, it spilled and some went to continue at different place. ... You also have to consider that Mark Furhman in interview with Fox stated that he believes the evidence shows that Denise was the intended target. He must have unknown to us reason for that thought. That theory would also wipe out many brought up theories aleady here by most members pointing to Jayme as a target.

Going from all above, it does make one question and rethink all things known so far.

Here is quote and link about Mark Furhman



AMBER ALERT - WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #11

Agreed that Dad is not target, Jayme is target, but IMHO mom may have been killed as collateral damage (as terrible as that sounds). Just don’t want to think that caring people would kill a nice, church school teaching, angel loving, dancemom.

If Jayme was afraid of dad, Jim, wouldn’t she have called 911 instead of someone in a Dodge Challenger to come help? Unless she had some reason to suspect they wouldn’t believe her? So perplexing based on what we “know” and rumors elsewhere are enough to make your head spin.

Were mom and daughter planning to leave, mom got cold feet, the plan was thwarted, and all went haywire??

Believing that over a random attack gives mom and JC some amount of control ot attemped control of the situation. Things appear to have gotten WAY out of control.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Nothing about where that house is located says "random crime" to me.

JMO.

May I ask why you believe this? Tia

There have been many randomly targeted homes throughout the country in rural areas much like where their home sits.

It was in a rural area yet close to a main exit road.

It sat up off the road.

The other home was more than 250 yards away from their home.

The home is more secluded and very dark at night with many shadows and dark spot areas..treelines. etc making it much easier to advance onto the property without being noticed.

When the parents were both murdered the Hufsted family home was randomly targeted by the stranger home invader because it sat back off of the road. This was done in daylight hours.

Most all of our local areas and state stranger home invasions were done in quiet rural communities where home invasions rarely ever happen.

In 99 percent of those randomly targeted homes the victims did open their door even late at night or the early morning hours.

Once doing so the victims tried to shut their door back but were then forced back inside of their home by the invader or invaders.

There have been many home invasions in recent years done by complete strangers.

Many no longer care if the home is occupied in fact it seems some prefer people to be inside and consistently the victims are overly brutalized...tortured and then overkilled.

You can Google this information to see home invasions have seen a tremendous uptick in recent years all across the country.

Many of them have resulted in some of the most brutal overkills of everyone inside who also were tortured and/or raped. Those that survived have been left with life altering injuries from the horrific bludgeoning or stabbing or from being shot by the stranger intruders.

Imo why we are seeing such rise in home invasions recently is the rise in the drug epidemic most every state is facing and more and more there is less and less value placed on human life by suspects now. Jmoo.

The locations of the randomly targeted homes have no specific pattern. They run the gambit.

Many are done in areas just like where their home is located and other homes sat right close to the street in very high traffic residential areas.

Only the suspects know why they specifically target any location.

All we know is they do no matter what location the targeted home may be .....from many areas just like this one or target homes in very busy areas.

There doesnt seem to be a rhyme or reason to their madness since its happening in various locations now.

Imo their home was a perfect home for a home invasion considerung its surroundings and since there is quick access to be able to exit the area quickly.

Imo

 

[CocoChanel]

Judgement was around 2010 (if I remember correctly) and settled at that time too, so it would not be for that. (in my humble opinion)

Good information. I’m suspecting that the 13k probably went to pay off the financial judgment against her in the past (referenced in some early threads).

I am woefully uninformed about this judgement that happened less than 10 years ago, so I do not know the nature of it other than it was against DC if I am interpreting it correctly.

However, even if it was settled, it would still fit into the wide range of possible motives that DancingMuse opened my mind to in this post:

AMBER ALERT - WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #19

 

[BB71]

Was first reported as Jayme giving gifts. Later reported as Denise. I guess they were, “two peas in a pod”.

Odd fact: On Jayme’s Pinterest acct, she posts one craft, and that shows “two peas in a pod” on her one board. Family member quoted mom and Jayme that way as well. I would link here, but I am not sure that is kosher.

Sad that every unrelated aspect of their lives is being scrutinized. That is the collateral damage when a young, innocent kid goes missing I suppose.

 

[BB71]

May I ask why you believe this? Tia

There have been many randomly targeted homes throughout the country in rural areas much like where their home sits.

It was in a rural area yet close to a main exit road.

It sat up off the road.

The other home was more than 250 yards away from their home.

The home is more secluded and very dark at night with many shadows and dark spot areas..treelines. etc making it much easier to advance onto the property on foot without being noticed.

When the parents were both murdered the Hufsted family home was randomly targeted by the stranger home invader because it sat back off of the road. This was done in daylight hours.

Most all of our local areas and state stranger home invasions were done in quiet rural communities where home invasions rarely ever happen.

In 99 percent of those randomly targeted homes the victims did open their door even late at night or the early morning hours.

Once doing so the victims tried to shut their door back but were then forced back inside of their home by the invader or invaders.

There have been many home invasions in recent years done by complete strangers.

Many no longer care if the home is occupied in fact it seems some prefer people to be inside and consistently the victims are overly brutalized...tortured and then overkilled.

You can Google this information to see home invasions have seen a tremendous uptick in recent years all across the country.

Many of them have resulted in some of the most brutal overkills of everyone inside who also were tortured and/or raped. Those that survived have been left with life altering injuries from the horrific bludgeoning or stabbing or from being shot by the stranger intruders.

Imo why we are seeing such rise in home invasions recently is the rise in the drug epidemic most every state is facing and more and more there is less and less value placed on human life by suspects now. Jmoo.

The locations of the randomly targeted homes have no specific pattern. They run the gambit.

Many are done in areas just like where their home is located and other homes sat right close to the street in very high traffic residential areas.

Only the suspects know why they specifically target any location.

All we know is they do no matter what location the targeted home may be .....from many areas just like this one or target homes on very busy areas.

There doesnt seem to be a rhyme or reason to their madness since its happening in various locations now.

Imo their home was a perfect home for a home invasion considerung its surroundings and since there is quick access to be able to exit the area quickly.

Imo

If, statistically, violent crime is down overall, what is the common thread to the randomness? Drugs? Mental illness? Both? Are all violent criminals “mentally ill”? Is PTSD considered a mental illness?

Most criminals suffer from childhood trauma. Does the abuse CAUSE mental illness or allow for the range of normal human emotion to escalate over time to a clinical level?

Any experts or students of psychology/human behavior out there who’d like to chime in?

 

[CocoChanel]

Odd fact: On Jayme’s Pinterest acct, she posts one craft, and that shows “two peas in a pod” on her one board. Family member quoted mom and Jayme that way as well. I would link here, but I am not sure that is kosher.

Sad that every unrelated aspect of their lives is being scrutinized. That is the collateral damage when a young, innocent kid goes missing I suppose.

Sad that this is the collateral damage for any victim of crime I think. The ones that become high profile (and sometimes it’s hard to predict which ones will become high profile) expose the victims to so much scrutiny from so many. How hard that must be for those who try to avoid that all their lives....and I count myself as one like that. Just another reason I thank God for keeping my family and me safe from harm each day.

 

[Al Ka]

I am woefully uninformed about this judgement that happened less than 10 years ago, so I do not know the nature of it other than it was against DC if I am interpreting it correctly.

However, even if it was settled, it would still fit into the wide range of possible motives that DancingMuse opened my mind to in this post:

AMBER ALERT - WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #19

I do agree, money or luck off it could be the motive for someone and hence making her possible target. I would not nesesserally look so many years back, but big loan just last year should be definitely look at deeper by LE.

(This is just one of the thoughts, true motive still could be something completely different).

PS: My appologies to all for discussing untastefull money matters. (I know we all hate it) but I thought it is quite relevant with possibility for LE to find some new lead or direction to bring some resolution. I won't bring it up again.

 

[Marzipan]

As time goes by, and relooking at some of the evidence, I do wonder if the attackers were known to the family.

Although it may not be apparent on the surface, there may be some person within the family’s circle, or extended circle, who took a liking to Jayme. In my opinion, that she is the family member not dead on the scene, is very important.

So two clues I am thinking about tonight:

1) Jayme was the target all along.
2) More than one person was involved in the murders.

We don’t know, nobody knows, that she wasn’t dead on scene and taken because of evidence on her body. We know she was alive during call, but not on departure. MOO.

 

[SharonNeedles]

Oh okay thank you for this insight. So IMO most likely the Closs were not CIs unless they were unknowingly caught in the middle of such a circumstance. But with working at a turkey factory, going to church, and Jayme being in middle school, that seems wildly unlikely. IMO

To clarify, I have never suspected the James or Denise of being CI’s. I do suspect someone they know is a CI or at the very least provided a tip that led to a raid. And of course when others involved start looking for the snitch, this person is not going to hold his hand up and say “it was me.” Scared people point fingers and I believe somebody falsely claimed either James or Denise was a snitch.

 

[Pretty Go Pale]

Guns are far, far FAR more valuable then meth.

But to be fair, depends on the amount of meth and the number of guns.

 

[SharonNeedles]

Why would the "cartel" go after a family, kill the parents and take the child if they weren't involved in "drugs"?
Witnesses?
I am stumped!
Moo

Home grown meth production is not at all what I would call a cartel. Around my area we refer to them as Hillbilly Sopranos. And they would have motive to find and silence somebody that knows of their involvement and provides info against them.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

If, statistically, violent crime is down overall, what is the common thread to the randomness? Drugs? Mental illness? Both? Are all violent criminals “mentally ill”? Is PTSD considered a mental illness?

Most criminals suffer from childhood trauma. Does the abuse CAUSE mental illness or allow for the range of normal human emotion to escalate over time to a clinical level?

Any experts or students of psychology/human behavior out there who’d like to chime in?

Good questions.

I am not a psychologist of course but I have found their opinions are never in sync with each other anyway so very little is confirmed to support the wide range of opinions.

I would say abuse doesn't cause these things to happen.

We have seen defendants do the most horrific crimes who had no abusive past.

Of course since murderers and kidnappers or those who commit other violent crimes come from all walks of life it is only logical some of them will have an abuse history of some form just like some will not. It is a much used excuse of course in our court system but the majority of the time it fails.

If abuse was really a defining factor with over 6 million children being abused each year the overall violent crime rate would continue to soar instead of decreasing overall in the past 6 years.

I believe it is because so many have become desensitized now and view human life as having little or no value.

I do think that is one of the reason why home invasions are on the rise by strangers that are resulting in some of the most overkill cases we have read about in recent years. Deadly home invasions at one time use to be a rarity but now tragically they arent anymore.

Jmo

 

[Pretty Go Pale]

To clarify, I have never suspected the James or Denise of being CI’s. I do suspect someone they know is a CI or at the very least provided a tip that led to a raid. And of course when others involved start looking for the snitch, this person is not going to hold his hand up and say “it was me.” Scared people point fingers and I believe somebody falsely claimed either James or Denise was a snitch.

If that is what happened in this case, the "scared" person who pointed the finger has almost certainly been eliminated. And if that scenario is accurate, the best chance of solving this case falls on the assigned perp who almost certainly abducted Jayme for his own deviant purposes. That perp, in this scenario, would be a loose end for having taken Jayme. And to be frank, that scenario now seems like a stretch, just because of that.

 

[SkipperKey3]

Agreed that Dad is not target, Jayme is target, but IMHO mom may have been killed as collateral damage (as terrible as that sounds). Just don’t want to think that caring people would kill a nice, church school teaching, angel loving, dancemom.

If Jayme was afraid of dad, Jim, wouldn’t she have called 911 instead of someone in a Dodge Challenger to come help? Unless she had some reason to suspect they wouldn’t believe her? So perplexing based on what we “know” and rumors elsewhere are enough to make your head spin.

Were mom and daughter planning to leave, mom got cold feet, the plan was thwarted, and all went haywire??

Believing that over a random attack gives mom and JC some amount of control ot attemped control of the situation. Things appear to have gotten WAY out of control.

Part of what I found interesting is when it was said that they can know all the cars in the county in 24 hours, so they know the cars in question are from outside the county. To me, this just adds to the idea that Jayme was probably not the target. The vehicles of anybody who might be in her extended circle would be known by now. The only reason I know of that can support the idea that Jayme was the target is that she was taken rather than just killed on the spot, but there are other viable explanations for that, not the least of which is DNA. There is no evidence of online activity that would suggest any other explanations. (Unlike the 16-year-old in Wisconsin who had an on-line relationship with a guy from Colorado, who then insisted on coming on getting her, for example.) It is possible that Jayme was the target, but I still don't see it as likely.

We have absolutely no evidence of any internal familial issues between Jayme and her parents, or between DC and JC. I think going that way is just going down a rabbit hole where there is nothing to find. By all accounts, they were a close-knit family.

 

[SkipperKey3]

May I ask why you believe this? Tia

There have been many randomly targeted homes throughout the country in rural areas much like where their home sits.

It was in a rural area yet close to a main exit road.

It sat up off the road.

The other home was more than 250 yards away from their home.

The home is more secluded and very dark at night with many shadows and dark spot areas..treelines. etc making it much easier to advance onto the property without being noticed.

When the parents were both murdered the Hufsted family home was randomly targeted by the stranger home invader because it sat back off of the road. This was done in daylight hours.

Most all of our local areas and state stranger home invasions were done in quiet rural communities where home invasions rarely ever happen.

In 99 percent of those randomly targeted homes the victims did open their door even late at night or the early morning hours.

Once doing so the victims tried to shut their door back but were then forced back inside of their home by the invader or invaders.

There have been many home invasions in recent years done by complete strangers.

Many no longer care if the home is occupied in fact it seems some prefer people to be inside and consistently the victims are overly brutalized...tortured and then overkilled.

You can Google this information to see home invasions have seen a tremendous uptick in recent years all across the country.

Many of them have resulted in some of the most brutal overkills of everyone inside who also were tortured and/or raped. Those that survived have been left with life altering injuries from the horrific bludgeoning or stabbing or from being shot by the stranger intruders.

Imo why we are seeing such rise in home invasions recently is the rise in the drug epidemic most every state is facing and more and more there is less and less value placed on human life by suspects now. Jmoo.

The locations of the randomly targeted homes have no specific pattern. They run the gambit.

Many are done in areas just like where their home is located and other homes sat right close to the street in very high traffic residential areas.

Only the suspects know why they specifically target any location.

All we know is they do no matter what location the targeted home may be .....from many areas just like this one or target homes in very busy areas.

There doesnt seem to be a rhyme or reason to their madness since its happening in various locations now.

Imo their home was a perfect home for a home invasion considerung its surroundings and since there is quick access to be able to exit the area quickly.

Imo

I don't think their home can be ruled out as a target for a random attack. It sits off the road in the woods out of sight of any other home. But sadly, as you say, even if it were in the middle of a neighborhood where the houses were all close, it can still happen.

 

[BlinkOfAnI]

It was more than 4 min though.
Call came in at 12:53. Lasted 47 sec or so. Operator called back twice.
They did not arrive til after 1 am.

I think the 4 min window may be confusing because the sheriff stated it was 4 min from the end of the call to to arrival at scene (OCT 17 PC)

 

[Intrigued25]

There is a mortgage. In May 2017 there was also $13 K borrowed against the house by Denise (as per Realtor info in previous threads). The same month and year there was huge storm in that area too, so maybe loan was taken due to that.