AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #25

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I have doubts about this being random...just seems very personal to me. No one was even given time to open a safe or so or it seems...jmo
I've said this from the start- it's personal. To our knowledge, nothing is missing of value.

I also feel like a female was involved.

Mark Fuhrman's interview where he said he thought that Denise was the target confirmed what I've felt all along, in my heart- that the target was one of the parents.

I also went back and forth with home invasion, too, as in the Groene family.

I just wish Jayme could be found.
 
My hometown! My entire family lives there. This is also not uncommon there in the past few years. Heroin and meth have taken over the town, home invasions and business robberies happen all the time.
Well then I wonder if one of the relatives at that party that night was a meth head and Denise said something that set that person off. This was rage, it wasn't for Jayme, They could have got her when she and Denise were alone! This was aimed at one of the parents.
 
Meth is a hell of a drug. Sometimes there is just no rhyme or reason to the way somebody who is extremely high acts or thinks.
If this was someone on meth, then I question how they could have done such a brutal act, without leaving a trace of evidence behind.

To me, this was well planned and well executed. You know when both LE and the FBI are stumped, then this was very well organized by someone who had a clear head.

I am also a bit shocked as to why there was only one search with volunteers, especially before the winter months.
 
My hometown! My entire family lives there. This is also not uncommon there in the past few years. Heroin and meth have taken over the town, home invasions

many people assume that little towns don't have these problems. I am from NH, and let me tell you, heroin and meth are bad up here- really bad. In our town, which was a peaceful town at one point, went from one cop per shift to three to four, in a matter of 6 years! Break ins are common, especially in homes that are seasonal, but there have been poor people who have been shot at in their own living room (thank goodness, they survived) just within the last few months. Cars are stolen, amongst other things.

Small towns have these problems now just as much as the cities. We also have an abundance of SO's living here- quite a few in my small neighborhood- very frightening.
 
The two ground searches by volunteers may have just been staged to see who showed up to help and who didn’t. Maybe they were expecting or hoping someone might attend or flake?

Could also have been an easy way to allow people to feel helpful or useful even if the reality is they’re quite helpless. This could have just been a “make busy” assignment. Give people a task to allow them to help and maybe just maybe someone might find something.

It may also have been a way to divert the attention of the townsfolk from something else LE was doing. Eg: was the big search with 2000 people on trash day by chance? Could other cops not helping in the ground search have been scoping out trash left out by residents? Or collecting it even dressed as garbage men? Totally speculation but gives an idea of why the officers may have asked for “help”.

Or... the request could have been just to search. Who knows? But I think they didn’t ask for more ground searches because they know it’s not likely to be fruitful.
 
The two ground searches by volunteers may have just been staged to see who showed up to help and who didn’t. Maybe they were expecting or hoping someone might attend or flake?

Could also have been an easy way to allow people to feel helpful or useful even if the reality is they’re quite helpless. This could have just been a “make busy” assignment. Give people a task to allow them to help and maybe just maybe someone might find something.

It may also have been a way to divert the attention of the townsfolk from something else LE was doing. Eg: was the big search with 2000 people on trash day by chance? Could other cops not helping in the ground search have been scoping out trash left out by residents? Or collecting it even dressed as garbage men? Totally speculation but gives an idea of why the officers may have asked for “help”.

Or... the request could have been just to search. Who knows? But I think they didn’t ask for more ground searches because they know it’s not likely to be fruitful.

I have tried to make sense of why so many volunteers were called to do the search that day. I can’t remember that kind of request ever being made by law enforcement, but cars were lined up down the road with so many willing to help in the search. It was a bold investigatory tool.

Jayme Closs search: About 2,000 volunteers comb through swamps, cornfields; sheriff calls support 'overwhelming'
 
What I am confused about is what could be suspicious in the idea that he thought suicide at first? I could see if he said murder first, then later we heard, no,it was suicide. But what kind of clue are you thinking of if something was “seen” by this first officer and then later edited out for some reason? I guess I am not seeing anything sinister in thinking suicide first, when I might if they said murder first, then changed it.

911 call logs are kept, short, factual and concise. But, conversation can take place between the responding officer and the 911 staff that is not recorded on the call log. The first officer to arrive might have been told it was a hang up call and "yelling" was heard before the call was ended. "Yelling" may have caused the officer to conclude that an argument was taking place in the home and that he was responding to a domestic situation. When he arrived he saw that a man was down on the floor by the door because he saw the man's feet by the doorway. If he thinks there was an argument going on just before he arrived and now someone is down he may, understandably (to me) conclude that the man killed himself. Iow, he is still in the mode of thinking "husband and wife argument." He may have gotten close enough to see a head wound. Often times a person who is arguing with someone will leave the home to "cool off" or just escape the turmoil of "fighting" so, being found by the front door is also not unexpected. Some people do threaten to leave the house or kill themselves and carry through with that threat during an argument. So the officer having an initial reaction that the man killed himself is not that far fetched to me. Once another officer arrived and they began to see more information the conclusion(s) and how to handle the situation would naturally change.
This is just speculation and jmo.
 
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These are three versions of how I think she could look if disguised. MOO. I hope it is okay to post them. If it doesn't work, I will delete post. Or if against rules, Mod please delete.

Hang on, Jayme. You will be rescued. Prayers for Jayme and the family on Thanksgiving and always.

View attachment 156718 View attachment 156720 View attachment 156722

Interesting ideas. I have thought from the beginning the circulated Jayme photo isn't the best because it doesn't show her entire face. Also, other photos I've seen tend to show her as what I perceive as a bit older. From your photos, gosh, she probably wouldn't be recognized.
 
911 call logs are kept, short, factual and concise. But, conversation can take place between the responding officer and the 911 staff that is not recorded on the call log. The first officer to arrive might have been told it was a hang up call and "yelling" was heard before the call was ended. "Yelling" may have caused the officer to conclude that an argument was taking place in the home and that he was responding to a domestic situation. When he arrived he saw that a man was down on the floor by the door because he saw the man's feet by the doorway. If he thinks there was an argument going on just before he arrived and now someone is down he may, understandably (to me) conclude that the man killed himself. Iow, he is still in the mode of thinking "husband and wife argument." He may have gotten close enough to see a head wound. Often times a person who is arguing with someone will leave the home to "cool off" or just escape the turmoil of "fighting" so, being found by the front door is also not unexpected. Some people do threaten leave the house or kill themselves and carry through with that threat during an argument. So the officer having an initial reaction that the man killed himself is not that far fetched to me. Once another officer arrived and they began to see more information the conclusion(s) and how to handle the situation would naturally change.
This is just speculation and jmo.

I was not questioning his first impression. I was asking what makes that suspicious to some? If he had said murder, then it was changed to suicide later, I could see all kinds of red flags.
 
I have tried to make sense of why so many volunteers were called to do the search that day. I can’t remember that kind of request ever being made by law enforcement, but cars were lined up down the road with so many willing to help in the search. It was a bold investigatory tool.

Jayme Closs search: About 2,000 volunteers comb through swamps, cornfields; sheriff calls support 'overwhelming'
It could have been as simple as checking out each vehicle that arrived or having scent dogs check them over as they searched etc. I’m not sure but I feel strongly there was more to it than just a basic ground search.
 
Interesting ideas. I have thought from the beginning the circulated Jayme photo isn't the best because it doesn't show her entire face. Also, other photos I've seen tend to show her as what I perceive as a bit older. From your photos, gosh, she probably wouldn't be recognized.

I felt also that the photos circulated aren't that great. In some she looks like she's years younger, and the most recent one (I think) is the one with the hair hanging down and doesn't show her chin cleft very well or her beauty.
 
I was not questioning his first impression. I was asking what makes that suspicious to some? If he had said murder, then it was changed to suicide later, I could see all kinds of red flags.

I agree and sorry I gave you the impression I was contradicting you. I was just adding the reason why I think the officer may have made that first impression and no, it's not suspicious to me either. :)
 
The two ground searches by volunteers may have just been staged to see who showed up to help and who didn’t. Maybe they were expecting or hoping someone might attend or flake?

Could also have been an easy way to allow people to feel helpful or useful even if the reality is they’re quite helpless. This could have just been a “make busy” assignment. Give people a task to allow them to help and maybe just maybe someone might find something.

It may also have been a way to divert the attention of the townsfolk from something else LE was doing. Eg: was the big search with 2000 people on trash day by chance? Could other cops not helping in the ground search have been scoping out trash left out by residents? Or collecting it even dressed as garbage men? Totally speculation but gives an idea of why the officers may have asked for “help”.

Or... the request could have been just to search. Who knows? But I think they didn’t ask for more ground searches because they know it’s not likely to be fruitful.
Cops dressed as garbage men?
 
It could have been as simple as checking out each vehicle that arrived or having scent dogs check them over as they searched etc. I’m not sure but I feel strongly there was more to it than just a basic ground search.

It could have been. That makes sense, given they didn’t have any leads and may have learned through the FBI sometimes the perp will show up a the crime scene appearing as a helper, but in reality, trying to understand what is known about the crime and how much evidence is there.

Two things to think about:

1) There is someone known to the family who had the means, *motive*, and opportunity to commit this act. The means and opportunity are apparent, so I put motive in asterisks.

2) A stranger killer, possibly acting out on personal issues, had the opportunity and the means to find the little off the road house. The motive would be the killing and abduction. It would be classified then as a stranger homicide.

What else could it be?

I am a lingerer on this case, as many here are. Hopefully, the answers will be found soon.
 
Or FBI maybe. Sure. Why not? It would be an easy way to collect people’s trash without anyone becoming suspicious of LE movement. I’m NOT saying it happened. Only that it COULD have happened and no one but LE would be any the wiser probably.


I actually like this... unlikely but curb trash is legal to all .... cops could have two/three people on radar go get trash, hope for walkie talkie , burner phone, mask, duct tape, anything in the trash odd. They could also have hoped perps dropped one of above items in the field running away from scene.
 
Just thinking outside of the box here, but it's sort of a weird coincidence that the massive Jennie-O turkey recall is directly due to problems at the plant the parents worked at. Maybe they(the parents) knew someone was doing something that could cause a recall and the person involved wanted no witnesses? It just seems like the timing is odd. JMO

Link to news story:
As Jennie-O turkey recalled, a look at why USDA hasn't release source of salmonella outbreak
 
If this was someone on meth, then I question how they could have done such a brutal act, without leaving a trace of evidence behind.

To me, this was well planned and well executed. You know when both LE and the FBI are stumped, then this was very well organized by someone who had a clear head.

I am also a bit shocked as to why there was only one search with volunteers, especially before the winter months.


I’m with you.. think could be druggie.. but they would screw something up you think..

I can understand no fingerprints... wear gloves..easy... no footprints is bizarre to me. Likely proof that crime was 2 loud gunshots, one dead instantly, one quickly there after, and all over in 2/3 minutes.

I know I’m reaching here... or tired... but is it possible perp doesn’t even enter home ??

Shots both in entryway...jayme runs out back to another perp or chased down by same perp...

Also, I’m thinking how on earth no shoe prints... jayme was in hospital... doctors/doc assistants nurses are in out covered shoes...

Meat inspector likely are in them a lot also..

It’s a reach....here is photo... done for nite
 

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Just thinking outside of the box here, but it's sort of a weird coincidence that the massive Jennie-O turkey recall is directly due to problems at the plant the parents worked at. Maybe they(the parents) knew someone was doing something that could cause a recall and the person involved wanted no witnesses? It just seems like the timing is odd. JMO

Link to news story:
As Jennie-O turkey recalled, a look at why USDA hasn't release source of salmonella outbreak
The only problem with that is, why did they take Jayme? Why not just kill her, too, instead of taking her?
 
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