AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #25

[photographer4]

She could have easily fled the state. Or be in a very loyal friend's house. I think it's also kind of weird that the guy who broke into the house was taking clothing of hers. I know they've cleared him of involvement, but what if he was getting clothing to take to her somewhere? This is all speculation on my part. It's where my thoughts go when I am trying to get to sleep at night. I assume LE and the FBI have already considered all scenarios.

I think if he was getting clothes to take to her somewhere, he would have been grabbing more than just panties... I can't imagine that she'd only need panties. And besides which, panties and other clothes are readily available at any Walmart or thrift shop...

 

[photographer4]

Sometimes, I wish that LE hadn't mentioned him to the media. It makes me wonder if he wasnt doing that for someone else that asked him to get some of her stuff. I also wonder, if he hadn't gone to the house that night and got caught, would someone else have gone in there that was responsible for this? Often times, murderers go back to the scene of the crime or where they buried their victims.

I think the panty thief was acting as a solo weirdo, and not involved in this case. If he was getting things for Jayme on behalf of someone else, then why only panties and not other clothes? I do think its quite possible though that he was sent in for someone else as a test to find out things like:
-> what the crime scene looked like after police left
-> was it rigged with cameras (it was).

I do think LE placed the cameras there hoping someone else would attend the home. Its like they expected that to happen, and were prepared for it. So why? Who would go there and for what purpose? I wasn't shocked at all to learn that cameras had been placed inside the home. I wondered how come cleaning crew didn't get in there until a few days after it was released to the family. Was that their earliest availability? Or did the family book it that way in accordance with police guidance, as police knew they had cameras on the place, and were hoping someone would go back?

 

[cluciano63]

Jmo but due to the somewhat odd way they (LE) has backed away from saying Jayme was “abducted”...did they think she might return to the house?

 

[UltraViolet4545]

But do we actually know there were no fingerprints? IMO, there could be plenty of evidence, but it’s not useful until LE has a suspect to compare it to. LE probably isn’t going to say “we have fingerprints and a comeplete DNA profile, but it doesn’t match anyone in our database.” They could be trying to play off any evidence they do have while they work to gather DNA/etc from people.

There were so many FBI agents on this case (yes, I know it has been scaled back some). They did not make any arrests and there are no named suspects. Some of the hardest cases to solve are random and it really makes me question whether that could be the case here.

 

[photographer4]

If she had incriminating DNA on her, then they couldn't just leave her.

Maybe mom managed to wound the perp and blood spattered on Jayme or her clothes? That might be a good enough reason to take her and deal with her later? If that did happen, I sure hope police found some of his blood... and can match it somehow to someone!

 

[photographer4]

Hm. Wisc had Ed Gein and Jeffrey Dahmer, A guy who kept having sex with a dead horse.A guy who was pushed into chemicals at a Paper plant.

Note to self: WI is full of weirdos, do not visit!!

 

[Steelslady]

The media would have found out easily enough. They look at crime reports daily.

True, but yet, the media in this case has been spotty at best. Questions that they should be asking aren't. They aren't digging, and you just know that they know more than what is being reported.

 

[SharonNeedles]

I think you are giving this guy way too much credit. The Sheriff has said that there is little evidence due to the fact that the crime happened so fast. He shot James at the door, Denise seconds later. He just walked in and took Jayme. So I don't think this guy spent days planning this, just decided to go in guns ablaze and the get out as quick as possible.

And if there is one thing that will speed your thought process, its meth.

I think assuming he shot Denise “seconds later” may not be accurate. If we are to assume that the two shots heard by the neighbors killed James and Denise placed the 911 call that opens a 25 minute window.

 

[SharonNeedles]

Note to self: WI is full of weirdos, do not visit!!

That’s nothing new. Ed Gein and Jeffery Dahlmer come to mind. And have you seen the spooky critters in Making a Murderer?

 

[Steelslady]

What is so frustrating with this case is that no scenario fits. There's always one piece to this puzzle that doesn't belong and renders the final picture incomplete.

Everyone has come up with the best possible scenarios- great minds on here, and I praise each and every one of you for presenting them all to discuss. Yet, time after time, no matter what the scenario, there are holes in them, that can't be filled. It's like we are onto something, we're close, but we're missing something important to make it all come together.

My opinion only- it is personal, and the answers are closer to home. LE and media's reports don't even seem to clarify that Jayme was officially abducted- why?

 

[photographer4]

I think the panty thief was acting as a solo weirdo, and not involved in this case. If he was getting things for Jayme on behalf of someone else, then why only panties and not other clothes? I do think its quite possible though that he was sent in for someone else as a test to find out things like:
-> what the crime scene looked like after police left
-> was it rigged with cameras (it was).

I do think LE placed the cameras there hoping someone else would attend the home. Its like they expected that to happen, and were prepared for it. So why? Who would go there and for what purpose? I wasn't shocked at all to learn that cameras had been placed inside the home. I wondered how come cleaning crew didn't get in there until a few days after it was released to the family. Was that their earliest availability? Or did the family book it that way in accordance with police guidance, as police knew they had cameras on the place, and were hoping someone would go back?

I wonder if police left the cameras there even after they caught panty creep?

 

[JnRyan]

With 24 threads behind us, someone probably brought it up, but I don't hear anything from LE on what kind of weapon they believe was used. It could be a shotgun, a handgun or even a rifle. We have some cases, like Alexandra Brueger where LE tells us the murder weapon was a shotgun and others like Heidi Childs/David Metzler where LE even tells us the caliber of the weapon. But we've heard nothing here.

 

[photographer4]

Sometimes, I wish that LE hadn't mentioned him to the media. It makes me wonder if he wasnt doing that for someone else that asked him to get some of her stuff. I also wonder, if he hadn't gone to the house that night and got caught, would someone else have gone in there that was responsible for this? Often times, murderers go back to the scene of the crime or where they buried their victims.

I found it interesting that police mentioned him to the media, and wondered why? They didn't mention it until a day or so after they caught him. It wasn't on anyone's radar that I know of (didn't hear local rumours, no media seemed to report it)... until after police announced it themselves. So, why did police do that? You can bet they had a reason, and I'm somehow doubtful it was to instil public confidence that they were getting anywhere on the case.... I wondered if they released this info to the media to send a message to someone in particular? A message that says, hey, we know you're looking for something.... but you gotta get through us to find it? Hmmm. That may not be the message, but some message wouldn't shock me.

 

[JnRyan]

What is so frustrating with this case is that no scenario fits. There's always one piece to this puzzle that doesn't belong and renders the final picture incomplete.

Everyone has come up with the best possible scenarios- great minds on here, and I praise each and every one of you for presenting them all to discuss. Yet, time after time, no matter what the scenario, there are holes in them, that can't be filled. It's like we are onto something, we're close, but we're missing something important to make it all come together.

My opinion only- it is personal, and the answers are closer to home. LE and media's reports don't even seem to clarify that Jayme was officially abducted- why?

Listening to the sheriff in one of his last interviews, LE sounds like they are having the same problem. And they know more than we do. I hope some evidence is still waiting to be processed that can break this open.

 

[Steelslady]

I wonder if police left the cameras there even after they caught panty creep?

Probably so, but after he was caught, I think the perp(s) or Jayme are too smart to go back. If she wanted to attempt to come home after hiding, she might be frightened off to go back, for fear of them finding her and her hiding place. I am sure she is truly scared and traumatized, and being 13, right now her trust level might not be high to attempt to come back, even with loved ones.

Without us knowing who did this and why, we can't speculate if she would or wouldn't try to come back for some of her things. If she knew the person that did this and managed to run off and hide, she might be scared to death that no one can protect her from this person or persons. Think about it- your parents give you a sense of security when you are a kid/teen- if they can't protect you from these people and managed to be killed themselves trying to protect you, who can you trust to make you feel safe?

 

[OhThatVictoria]

Note to self: WI is full of weirdos, do not visit!!

Gein and Dahmer, most famous. Twin Peaksy Wisconsin frames certain dark forces there . . . (Let’s not forget the SlenderMan girls and the Steven Avery case.) The horse assaulter, missed that story. Egads, same guy was attracted to a dead deer he found at the side of a road . . . You can’t make this stuff up. Man convicted of molesting a dead deer and shooting horse to have sex with it 'assaulted female cop after shoplifting from Walmart' | Daily Mail Online

Prom girl missing since 1974, very sad story / cold case out of Waukesha County . . . WI - WI - Catherine Sjoberg, 16, Concord, 5 June 1974

 

[photographer4]

With 24 threads behind us, someone probably brought it up, but I don't hear anything from LE on what kind of weapon they believe was used. It could be a shotgun, a handgun or even a rifle. We have some cases, like Alexandra Brueger where LE tells us the murder weapon was a shotgun and others like Heidi Childs/David Metzler where LE even tells us the caliber of the weapon. But we've heard nothing here.

Jmo but due to the somewhat odd way they (LE) has backed away from saying Jayme was “abducted”...did they think she might return to the house?

I cannot imagine re-entering a home where parents had been so brutally killed. Especially before the crime scene had been cleaned up. I imagine when crime scene was returned to family by police, there was a huge mess. Probably blood in the front door area and where Denise was found. Maybe there were bullet holes, kicked over furniture? I suspect finger print dust everywhere too from the forensic team looking for evidence.... I just can't imagine walking in there knowing what happened in there. I wonder if the family has since gone into the house? Maybe to get valuables or family photos etc? How absolutely awful for the family.

 

[Irmese]

The Sheriff has more evidence and knowledge than we do about the case. His comment was a bit odd, or the journalist's wording was odd. Thanks to all for pointing it out.

The autopsies are not released. If JC and/or DC had significant gunpowder residue on their hand(s) indicating that they had fired weapon(s), then it would seem odd to the investigators that no guns were found. Maybe the multiple rounds spent indicate some gun battle occurred and not only the Unsub was firing. Maybe the casings have Closs family DNA as the person who loaded the gun, but the gun is missing. Jim in particular, at the door, may have been armed with a handgun against a rifle or shotgun; after Jim was murdered, the Unsub may have used Jim's handgun to shoot DC - creating a confusing initial crime scene about who shot whom with what gun (did Jim shoot Denise? his gun, his bullets, but used by Unsub).

The Sheriff has more evidence and knowledge than we do about the case. His comment was a bit odd, or the journalist's wording was odd. Thanks to all for pointing it out.

The autopsies are not released. If JC and/or DC had significant gunpowder residue on their hand(s) indicating that they had fired weapon(s), then it would seem odd to the investigators that no guns were found. Maybe the multiple rounds spent indicate some gun battle occurred and not only the Unsub was firing. Maybe the casings have Closs family DNA as the person who loaded the gun, but the gun is missing. Jim in particular, at the door, may have been armed with a handgun against a rifle or shotgun; after Jim was murdered, the Unsub may have used Jim's handgun to shoot DC - creating a confusing initial crime scene about who shot whom with what gun (did Jim shoot Denise? his gun, his bullets, but used by Unsub).

So, your possible scenario is that someone knocks on the door, James grabs a gun and answers the door, maybe cracks it open, the unsub shoots him once with a shotgun or rifle, possibly causing a lot of damage to the door with the shot, James is down, unsub shoots again, killing him. Then unsub takes James's gun and shoots Denise. If the unsub took the gun it could be said to "be accounted for." LE would have known that James's weapon didn't cause his wounds.

I have been leaning away from multiple guns being fired because the neighbors only heard two shots, but I can see how that would be possible.

 

[andreww]

I think assuming he shot Denise “seconds later” may not be accurate. If we are to assume that the two shots heard by the neighbors killed James and Denise placed the 911 call that opens a 25 minute window.

The Sheriff has given information publicly that indicates that he doesn't agree with the neighbour's time account. Personally I believe they heard the shots at 12:58, not 12:38 as they stated. As their clock was set seven minutes fast, that would put the shots at 12:51, two minutes before the 911 call.

 

[Rubiconbob]

If perp didn't enter the home, how come it took police about five minutes to locate Denise's body - which was inside the house as far as we know? Unless she was shot through an outside door or window... I'm thinking perp(s) had to have entered the residence.

You bring up excellent point. And could eliminate never entering the home. If she is found down hall in bathroom with entry wound and exit wound and bullet behind her... that theory is out the window. If she only has one significant gunshot wound and all bullets found fired near door... that would make sense. Gets shot Adrenaline runs to bathroom and realizes how bad is and bleeding out.

I could see James taking tough first shot and Denise running to save him .. I can fix it etc..(Jackie Kennedy)...then noticing perp.. second shot ..runs away..

I just have hard time with blood splatter.. wounds to two people.. perp carrying gun, walking over wet grass... no prints..