AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #25

[SharonNeedles]

The Sheriff has given information publicly that indicates that he doesn't agree with the neighbour's time account. Personally I believe they heard the shots at 12:58, not 12:38 as they stated. As their clock was set seven minutes fast, that would put the shots at 12:51, two minutes before the 911 call.

I did not interpret the sherrif’s comments to mean the assailants were on property for only a few minutes. I know some did, but I believe he was trying to state that LE arrived within four minutes of the call. Also, the neighbor’s clock being off by seven minutes was taken into account. Without throwing speculation into the mix, nearly 25 minutes elapsed between the neighbors hearing shots and the the open line 911 call.

 

[Rubiconbob]

I cannot imagine re-entering a home where parents had been so brutally killed. Especially before the crime scene had been cleaned up. I imagine when crime scene was returned to family by police, there was a huge mess. Probably blood in the front door area and where Denise was found. Maybe there were bullet holes, kicked over furniture? I suspect finger print dust everywhere too from the forensic team looking for evidence.... I just can't imagine walking in there knowing what happened in there. I wonder if the family has since gone into the house? Maybe to get valuables or family photos etc? How absolutely awful for the family.

I think y’all are spot on.. law enforcement thinks jayme was Abducted 95 percent of the time...5 percent chance she went half heartedly with older perp.

They leave cameras on to catch anything odd... perp abducted her comes back to get all clothes cause he’s broke..

Perp comes back for trophy or evidence.
Perp comes back for hidden laptop jayme using.

Maybe they see how family acts or doesn’t act.. gotta be brutal for family to go back.

 

[andreww]

What is so frustrating with this case is that no scenario fits. There's always one piece to this puzzle that doesn't belong and renders the final picture incomplete.

Everyone has come up with the best possible scenarios- great minds on here, and I praise each and every one of you for presenting them all to discuss. Yet, time after time, no matter what the scenario, there are holes in them, that can't be filled. It's like we are onto something, we're close, but we're missing something important to make it all come together.

My opinion only- it is personal, and the answers are closer to home. LE and media's reports don't even seem to clarify that Jayme was officially abducted- why?

Whenever you hear stories of abducted women, very rarely is it someone known to them. Think of Molly Tibbetts. I honestly think that if this was personal, LE would have found them long ago. People don't keep disputes quite, other people always know. With the amount of attention put on this family not one story has come out to indicate any kind of issues. The Closs's seem like hard working, family oriented people. No indication of drug issues, criminal activity, gambling. or anything else.

To me this appears to be the act of a random stranger. A drifter maybe. A possible drug user. Maybe it's a case of mistaken identity. Unfortunately these are the hardest crimes to solve.

 

[Lillymac]

Probably so, but after he was caught, I think the perp(s) or Jayme are too smart to go back. If she wanted to attempt to come home after hiding, she might be frightened off to go back, for fear of them finding her and her hiding place. I am sure she is truly scared and traumatized, and being 13, right now her trust level might not be high to attempt to come back, even with loved ones.

Without us knowing who did this and why, we can't speculate if she would or wouldn't try to come back for some of her things. If she knew the person that did this and managed to run off and hide, she might be scared to death that no one can protect her from this person or persons. Think about it- your parents give you a sense of security when you are a kid/teen- if they can't protect you from these people and managed to be killed themselves trying to protect you, who can you trust to make you feel safe?

It is in several reports that nothing was missing from the house. Perhaps LE set up the cameras, etc. hoping the perps would come back to find what they were originally looking for. The panty thief blew that by exposing the fact that cameras were set up there.

 

[andreww]

I did not interpret the sherrif’s comments to mean the assailants were on property for only a few minutes. I know some did, but I believe he was trying to state that LE arrived within four minutes of the call. Also, the neighbor’s clock being off by seven minutes was taken into account. Without throwing speculation into the mix, nearly 25 minutes elapsed between the neighbors hearing shots and the the open line 911 call.

The sheriff clearly said that the reason for the lack of evidence was that it happened very quickly, within minutes. There is no other way to interpret what he said if you listen to the full quote.

 

[andreww]

It is in several reports that nothing was missing from the house. Perhaps LE set up the cameras, etc. hoping the perps would come back to find what they were originally looking for. The panty thief blew that by exposing the fact that cameras were set up there.

I think cops set up the cameras because they had removed all the doors. The house simply want secure and they new at some point someone would take advantage of that.

 

[sumzero]

I think cops set up the cameras because they had removed all the doors. The house simply want secure and they new at some point someone would take advantage of that.

Yep. I'd bet my bottom dollar this is the reason.

 

[photographer4]

So, your possible scenario is that someone knocks on the door, James grabs a gun and answers the door, maybe cracks it open, the unsub shoots him once with a shotgun or rifle, possibly causing a lot of damage to the door with the shot, James is down, unsub shoots again, killing him. Then unsub takes James's gun and shoots Denise. If the unsub took the gun it could be said to "be accounted for." LE would have known that James's weapon didn't cause his wounds.

I have been leaning away from multiple guns being fired because the neighbors only heard two shots, but I can see how that would be possible.

Just a question that keeps coming up for me....
If only two shots were fired that night (presumably by perp(s), and presumably one fatal shot to each parent)... then why would police say "multiple rounds spent" in the call log?

I assumed that meant they found bullets, casings or shells at the front door area which had either hit James, or other objects, or landed on the floor? Could the officer have meant something else, or is it to be taken at face value? :/

 

[andreww]

Just a question that keeps coming up for me....
If only two shots were fired that night (presumably by perp(s), and presumably one fatal shot to each parent)... then why would police say "multiple rounds spent" in the call log?

I assumed that meant they found bullets, casings or shells at the front door area which had either hit James, or other objects, or landed on the floor? Could the officer have meant something else, or is it to be taken at face value? :/

Two shots is "multiple shots" No?

 

[Lillymac]

I

I think cops set up the cameras because they had removed all the doors. The house simply want secure and they new at some point someone would take advantage of that.

I thought the only door gone was the front door and it had been boarded up with plywood and a tarp..blue I believe. More than one camera was set up and apparently they were being monitored around the clock by LE.
I mentioned on another thread that I couldn't believe they had left it so unsecured. It was pointed out to me it was not LE's job to secure it. Little did we know cameras were monitoring the home. And apparently not just the home, but outside too. jmo

 

[Lillymac]

Two shots is "multiple shots" No?

Not if there were multiple spent casings.

 

[andreww]

I did not interpret the sherrif’s comments to mean the assailants were on property for only a few minutes. I know some did, but I believe he was trying to state that LE arrived within four minutes of the call. Also, the neighbor’s clock being off by seven minutes was taken into account. Without throwing speculation into the mix, nearly 25 minutes elapsed between the neighbors hearing shots and the the open line 911 call.

DrydenWire
At about 44:00

Sheriff: "You have to realize they were probably only in that residence for four minutes."

At another part of the interview he says "Its not like he was there for twenty five minutes. If he was there would be more evidence."

 

[andreww]

Not if there were multiple spent casings.

Huh? Two = Multiple. Two shots, two casings. Not sure where you are going with this?

 

[photographer4]

It is in several reports that nothing was missing from the house. Perhaps LE set up the cameras, etc. hoping the perps would come back to find what they were originally looking for. The panty thief blew that by exposing the fact that cameras were set up there.

Actually, I'm going to point out that the panty thief wasn't discussed that I know of in social media, or by MSM... I didn't hear a peep about it until after the sheriff announced it himself. If the police hadn't made that announcement, and knowing that the thief was in jail, they could have kept it quiet, and not released the info to the media, and to that end, no one but LE and the thief who was behind bars would be any the wiser.

So - this begs the question... why *did* the Sheriff advised the media about the panty thief? If he hadn't done so, they could have just let the cameras roll and wait to see what else / who else might roll through... I think they didn't even announce it until a day or so after the thief was caught....

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Whenever you hear stories of abducted women, very rarely is it someone known to them. Think of Molly Tibbetts. I honestly think that if this was personal, LE would have found them long ago. People don't keep disputes quite, other people always know. With the amount of attention put on this family not one story has come out to indicate any kind of issues. The Closs's seem like hard working, family oriented people. No indication of drug issues, criminal activity, gambling. or anything else.

To me this appears to be the act of a random stranger. A drifter maybe. A possible drug user. Maybe it's a case of mistaken identity. Unfortunately these are the hardest crimes to solve.

I would think because of the very special secrecy, that maybe LE are suspecting a very close member of family and are in addition restricted by special laws, which would prevent any name calling. So they are not saying, Jayme has been abducted and they are not telling the name of a possible suspect.
Sometimes I ask myself, why they are still searching at all for Jayme? If a detailed search would bring danger to her, why not call off the search?

 

[photographer4]

Huh? Two = Multiple. Two shots, two casings. Not sure where you are going with this?

I was responding to something upthread, as I interpreted someone's post to indicate that there were only two shots fired, which were heard by the neighbours, and that those shots killed the parents. I was wondering how only two shots were fired total, but police commented in the log that there were multiple rounds spent. I can't find the post now that I was responding to, so apologies if this has confused anyone. Ugh. I wish I knew how to multi quote intentionally!

 

[Lillymac]

Huh? Two = Multiple. Two shots, two casings. Not sure where you are going with this?

Me either, ha! I'm thinking personally that the first responder could easily count 2 shells, or 2 casings, but if there were more, they would say multiple. For the amount of apparent carnage that has been hinted at there would have to be more than two shots. IMO. And two shots is just what the neighbor reported hearing. That and the 911 hang up, is what all the theories have been based on. No facts. I would love to know what some of the 2000 tips are. In my mind there are more oddities from LE, but I am sure there is an explanation for them all. Frustrating to say the least.

 

[Mistermagoo]

I don't know where people are getting the idea that only 2 shots were fired. We don't know how many shots were fired. The neighbors only heard 2, it doesn't meat that there were only 2.
Also, alot of people on here are saying that they are surprised that someone one would not just take Jayme when she was alone because you would have to assume James had a gun and it would be such a huge risk. Well....... If he was immediately shot at the door then risk calculated, risk eliminated.

 

[Aqua]

Note to self: WI is full of weirdos, do not visit!!

Well, we do have more than our fair share!

 

[photographer4]

Huh? Two = Multiple. Two shots, two casings. Not sure where you are going with this?

Just the police log transcript indicates that officers saw James was down, and then it says "multiple rounds spent" - before they've even discovered Denise wherever she is in the house (or on the property). So before they even find Denise, there was evidence that more than one shot had been fired (in the entry way where James was). That must mean more than two shots were fired during the duration of the crime if they had multiple rounds spent before they even found Denise, no? I'm probably not articulating this well... pass the coffee....

Also... while I'm pondering it....

The neighbours heard only two shots (for whatever reason). But right there at the front entry way, police note "multiple rounds spent". Interestingly, the neighbours heard two shots (or a car backfiring), in rapid succession. They were loud according to the neighbours. How come they didn't hear other shots that must have also been fired at the front entry way? Unless a different gun was used, that was perhaps quieter, wouldn't they have heard those too? If not, why not?