AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #25

[Rubiconbob]

There’s no telling how long that body’s been there though. Sounds to me like it could have been there a very long time.

You could be right. Here is quote from sherif


Fitzgerald says the analysis shows the man had been dead at least a year.

 

[Rubiconbob]

Possible that person wasn't murdered in Barron but body was dumped there. Barron has had no reported murders since before 2002. This isn't a high murder rate area. In general, Barron itself is a really safe area with a low number of violent crime. Most issues relate to drugs / theft.

Yep. Your right. Body dumped..

Analysis of skeletal remains leads to homicide investigation in Barron Co.

 

[bellyup]

Am I the only one who doesn't buy that there have been no murders in Barron since 2002? Would be great if it were true, but that's just doesn't sound right.

I questioned it when I saw it posted and looked on general crime reporting sites. That's what is shown on them.

HOWEVER, I just did more searches and have found several murder cases in Barron county courts so the records being reported to crime cataloging sites aren't accurate.

 

[Pretty Go Pale]

Oh, I see. My apologies for not getting your implication before, but there are other posters pushing the narrative that maybe one was a suicide. But if someone wanted to make this crime scene look like a suicide scene why would they take the gun? Are you thinking there were two perps and one of them took the gun that had been positioned in someone's hand? Plus, the scene did not look like a suicide for very long. It was only an initial impression on the dispatch log. It was changed on the log once investigated and later officially ruled double homicide by the ME. So I'm not sure why we would come to the conclusion someone tried to make it look like suicide, only because of the first responding officers very first impressions-- there is no way the perp(s) could predict what police would first think or first see upon arriving. From the sounds of it the perp(s) were there for very little time and did not leave much evidence behind. Would the sheriff say that if they had left a note? I don't think so. JMO.

The first responding officer's remark is less of a question in my mind than the Sheriff's remark about why the deaths were ruled homicides and the "particularly interesting" description of the case by the Sheriff's Department.

I seriously doubt that either death was originally intended to look like a suicide. Something, though, by my reading of the facts as they've been presented, seems off about the shootings, in the eyes of LE.

 

[Gardener1850]

Nevermind.

 

[Rubiconbob]

Does anybody have a plausible theory in which this may have a positive outcome? I have played different scenarios over and over and with each day it seems less and less likely...so many questions and so few answers!

Jayme gets tired of perps crap.. and hits him dozen times with baseball bat and starts therapy.... or perp is caught and sent to prison with Sasquatch as cell mate...not a lot of good outcomes. But if Elizabeth smart can come out not bitter and crazy... there’s always hope.

 

[Pretty Go Pale]

Why would anyone leave their gun behind though, for any crime? I mean, I know it happens sometimes, I guess I just assumed that would be accidental, not purposefully. For example, if there was a struggle, or something like that. But why would there ever be an expectation of a perp leaving their gun behind?

Exactly! Yet the Sheriff's Department said that "what makes this case particularly interesting is that no weapon was found on the scene."

 

[Gardener1850]

The first responding officer's remark is less of a question in my mind than the Sheriff's remark about why the deaths were ruled homicides and the "particularly interesting" description of the case by the Sheriff's Department.

I seriously doubt that either death was originally intended to look like a suicide. Something, though, by my reading of the facts as they've been presented, seems off about the shootings, in the eyes of LE.

Can you find the source of that quote for me? I'm interested in the context. Thanks.

 

[Oakland CA]

Im discussing it because its my opinion that its still possible. Im here to discuss my opinion, not persuade or dissuade anyone of theirs.

Just to be clear, I don't think it was suicide.

I liked the post to support KLM's point that we are all entitled to our own opinion on what may/may not have occurred.

 

[Confusion]

Sorry if all of these issues have already been addressed, but I'm a bit short of time right now and don't want to sort them.

Are we sure James had just the one job? Jmo not many jobs offer 20+ hrs of OT enough so that it would be regular.

I think most factory type jobs often have people work 20 or more hours of OT at times. I know that during the busy season at Tonka Toys it was common to work 10+ hours a day 5-7 days a week, when I was delivering mail, it was sometimes mandatory too (I had a collection route which had to be done 7 days a week).

Your first point hits the nail on the head. Suicide is way more common than homicide when there is evidence of a gunshot. In fact, according to nationwide 2016 stats suicide is twice as more likely than homicide in those situations. This would be especially true in Barron County which had not had a murder reported since before 2002. There have been suicides in Barron County - from 2009 to 2013 a suicide rate of 13 people per 100,000 was reported.

It's highly likely none of the responding officers had ever even seen a real murder scene so it's natural that their first assumption, even given all the circumstances especially the gunshot wound on James, would be suicide.

13 per 100,000 really isn't that many; 4 or 5 would be my guess off the top of my head.

I curious about the difference between homicide and murder.

Homicide means death caused by another person, murder is homicide that is done with intent or negligence (and possibly other things I'm forgetting.)

In response to whoever it was who stated that his hand would have been frozen in place if he'd died suddenly (sorry, I forgot to quote that one and don't remember who said it.) When a person dies, all muscles in the body relax, whether it's a sudden or a slow death.
MOO

 

[Pretty Go Pale]

Can you find the source of that quote for me? I'm interested in the context. Thanks.

Here's one source that quoted Sheriff Fitzgerald:

"On Wednesday, Barron County Sheriff Chris Fitzgerald said 56-year-old James Closs and 46-year-old Denise Closs deaths were ruled a double homicide.

'[Jayme's] parents died from gunshot wounds that's why we are ruling this a homicide. There was no gun found on the scene. We believe Jayme was home based on the evidence in our case. Some of it from that 911 call and some of it is still part of the active investigation and we're not able to comment on why we believe that,' said Fitzgerald."

Sheriff: Jayme Closs was home at time of murders

As far as the source of the "particularly interesting" description, I pulled that from the facts assembled by WS moderator Whiskers16 on the first page of each of these Closs family threads. That post reads: "The department says at this point there are no signs of drug or alcohol use and say this case is particularly interesting as there were no weapons found on scene. [15]"

That post is pulled directly from an article by WEAU, which can be found by scrolling down through several other articles at this website: UPDATE: Sheriff: Missing girl was in home at the time of the murders

 

[cluciano63]

Oh, I see. My apologies for not getting your implication before, but there are other posters pushing the narrative that maybe one was a suicide. But if someone wanted to make this crime scene look like a suicide scene why would they take the gun? Are you thinking there were two perps and one of them took the gun that had been positioned in someone's hand? Plus, the scene did not look like a suicide for very long. It was only an initial impression on the dispatch log. It was changed on the log once investigated and later officially ruled double homicide by the ME. So I'm not sure why we would come to the conclusion someone tried to make it look like suicide, only because of the first responding officers very first impressions-- there is no way the perp(s) could predict what police would first think or first see upon arriving. From the sounds of it the perp(s) were there for very little time and did not leave much evidence behind. Would the sheriff say that if they had left a note? I don't think so. JMO.

I don’t think LE would hide if a murder/suicide...why should they? These crimes have become shockingly relevant of late. And Jayme would also not be a suspect in such an event, she would be a survivor who escaped. Unless one is thinking she recovered the gun and took it with her, I can’t see thinking murder/suicide especially when both deaths are confirmed as murders. But if they thought she had a gun, I think the alert would be quite different.

Anyway...this is a circular discussion on a piece of info that LE has clarified via the ME. We seem to tend to chastise LE for not releasing info, yet many doubt them when then do.

 

[cluciano63]

Does anybody have a plausible theory in which this may have a positive outcome? I have played different scenarios over and over and with each day it seems less and less likely...so many questions and so few answers!

Not entirely positive...as even if Jayme is somehow alive at this point, what she has likely endured is beyond anything I could have recovered from at that age. I know some people have gone onto to live very successful lives though. So I guess that would be the only positive outcome, i.e her escaping or being rescued. Jmo

 

[cluciano63]

So...double homicide...equals double murder...right??

 

[tiffkinsadder]

Exactly! Yet the Sheriff's Department said that "what makes this case particularly interesting is that no weapon was found on the scene."

I don’t think suicide/homicide. But Yes! I have Alwayysss thought to myself what a bizarre comment! Oh! What if he just said that and really recovered a weapon?

 

[Gardener1850]

Here's one source that quoted Sheriff Fitzgerald:

"On Wednesday, Barron County Sheriff Chris Fitzgerald said 56-year-old James Closs and 46-year-old Denise Closs deaths were ruled a double homicide.

'[Jayme's] parents died from gunshot wounds that's why we are ruling this a homicide. There was no gun found on the scene. We believe Jayme was home based on the evidence in our case. Some of it from that 911 call and some of it is still part of the active investigation and we're not able to comment on why we believe that,' said Fitzgerald."

Sheriff: Jayme Closs was home at time of murders

As far as the source of the "particularly interesting" description, I pulled that from the facts assembled by WS moderator Whiskers16 on the first page of each of these Closs family threads. That post reads: "The department says at this point there are no signs of drug or alcohol use and say this case is particularly interesting as there were no weapons found on scene. [15]"

That post is pulled directly from an article by WEAU, which can be found by scrolling down through several other articles at this website: UPDATE: Sheriff: Missing girl was in home at the time of the murders

Thank you. That shows that the "particularly interesting" wording is not a direct quote of anyone. Here is the article quote in context:

“We're considering her missing and endangered,” said Fitzgerald. “We don't know what happened. This was a gunshot crime scene and we do not know where Jayme is.”

The department says at this point there are no signs of drug or alcohol use and say this case is particularly interesting as there were no weapons found on scene.

Fitzgerald explained, “This is a strange one but we do believe Jamie needs to be located and we do feel she's in danger to some degree and that's our focus now, that's where our efforts and being produced.

BBM. Note how there is no attribution of that info other than "the department" says... "Particularly interesting" may only be the reporters own wording and interpretation of what was said. It is not a direct quote of what LE said.

 

[bellyup]

I questioned it when I saw it posted and looked on general crime reporting sites. That's what is shown on them.

HOWEVER, I just did more searches and have found several murder cases in Barron county courts so the records being reported to crime cataloging sites aren't accurate.

Quoting myself.
I got off to have dinner and was thinking on this.
This seems REALLY off to me.

Is it common that multiple crime cataloging sites would be so off in reporting? Showing ZERO homicides when I can easily find 8 in the last few years?!?

I haven’t been sleuthing for awhile (Zhara Baker & Hailey Dunn broke me) so I wouldn’t know if it’s common to see crime sites with such misinformation or not? Anyone have thoughts?

 

[Pretty Go Pale]

Thank you. That shows that the "particularly interesting" wording is not a direct quote of anyone. Here is the article quote in context:



BBM. Note how there is no attribution of that info other than "the department" says... "Particularly interesting" may only be the reporters own wording and interpretation of what was said. It is not a direct quote of what LE said.

That is all correct, without doubt. But it also doesn't mean the report isn't accurate. And I gave the report a little more weight when combining it with the remarks of the Sheriff and the first LE to arrive on the scene.

 

[Gardener1850]

I don’t think LE would hide if a murder/suicide...why should they? These crimes have become shockingly relevant of late. And Jayme would also not be a suspect in such an event, she would be a survivor who escaped. Unless one is thinking she recovered the gun and took it with her, I can’t see thinking murder/suicide especially when both deaths are confirmed as murders. But if they thought she had a gun, I think the alert would be quite different.

Anyway...this is a circular discussion on a piece of info that LE has clarified via the ME. We seem to tend to chastise LE for not releasing info, yet many doubt them when then do.

Agreed completely. I also kind of feel like it gets into conspiracy theory territory if we latch onto a theory that requires believing LE has lied repeatedly about the basic facts of the case. To believe it wasn't a double homicide means LE lied at every press conference and interview since the ME report was final. Or it means you think LE is grossly incompetent if you think they made a mistake (they took extra time for the autopsy though and brought in FBI specialists so I doubt a mistake was made). JMO.

 

[Bugurl747]

I'm new here and please correct me if I am wrong, but as I read some of the rules don't you have to site a source if you are quoting a statement, and if not state it is your opinion?

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