AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #25

[bellyup]

I think you can count on a break in this case soon, just my amateur opinion. As to whether Jayme is still alive....well they changes are overwhelmingly against it. However, against logic and unable to justify why...I believe she is still alive.

You stole words from my brain on this.
There's an insanely high likelihood that Jayme is deceased. But like you ... against logic, statistics and reason; I also believe Jayme is still alive.

 

[RavenDoc]

I know the whole suicide thing gets people worked up on here. But I agree with you. The 'advised of a possible suicide attempt', then a minute later 'man down, possible suicide', gets me. What did they initially see before they found James dead that caused them to think suicide attempt? I still believe its possible that James's death wasnt ruled suicide because the weapon is missing. Ive stated this a few times before and get bashed all over the place. But I do firmly believe its a possibility. With another person dead, and Jayme missing, its safer to call it a homicide for now until all the facts are in. And its very possible to change that ruling later. jmho.

Moo gunshot wound to the head would make me initially assume suicide attempt upon coming upon the scene. Again Moo.

 

[sumzero]

Holidays tough for Jayme Closs family

I think this is allowed, if not please remove. Body language is my area of study. PLEASE read this as my OPINION and interpretation only.

I think the video above was posted but I'd like to talk about SN's body language and why I believe there is a POI or POI's.

SN (Denise's brother) answers the interviewers question
"Do you have any gut feelings?"
with
"Got quite a few gut feelings." ... "It's not just one."

He says it with certainty. He doesn't hesitate. His facial expression and the ironic titter indicate to me he thinks he knows exactly what happened. His "not just one" I don't take to mean that there are many possibilities. I take it to mean that his gut is screaming at him in many ways and he's frustrated because he cannot prove it.

SA (sister) then says ".... they change day to to day" As she says this, SN looks to the side and down. There's a lot said to me in that little movement. My best interpretation is that he doesn't agree with her (that gut feelings change day to day) and that he's been unable to convince her. They don't agree on this point.

It's my belief that SN has an exact theory on what happened, who and why. This is what makes me believe that LE does have a definite POI or POIs. They just need a break to bring them in.

SN looks to the side and down? Hmm. I don’t see that at all. I also don’t sense any disagreement between SN and SA. “Not just one” (SN) is roughly equivalent, IMO, to “they change from day to day” (SA). In addition, the accompanying article apparently summarizes the interview, including, I presume, the parts left out. That SN doesn’t know who to be angry at, therefore, suggests he has no one in mind. And I’m guessing, based on what the sheriff has said (and he seems more candid than most), neither does LE.

 

[Rubiconbob]

Holidays tough for Jayme Closs family

I think this is allowed, if not please remove. Body language is my area of study. PLEASE read this as my OPINION and interpretation only.

I think the video above was posted but I'd like to talk about SN's body language and why I believe there is a POI or POI's.

SN (Denise's brother) answers the interviewers question
"Do you have any gut feelings?"
with
"Got quite a few gut feelings." ... "It's not just one."

He says it with certainty. He doesn't hesitate. His facial expression and the ironic titter indicate to me he thinks he knows exactly what happened. His "not just one" I don't take to mean that there are many possibilities. I take it to mean that his gut is screaming at him in many ways and he's frustrated because he cannot prove it.

SA (sister) then says ".... they change day to to day" As she says this, SN looks to the side and down. There's a lot said to me in that little movement. My best interpretation is that he doesn't agree with her (that gut feelings change day to day) and that he's been unable to convince her. They don't agree on this point.

It's my belief that SN has an exact theory on what happened, who and why. This is what makes me believe that LE does have a definite POI or POIs. They just need a break to bring them in.

That would explain silence from family..I hope your right... think sheriff has handled about as good as he could ... cards he was dealt..took Ohio killers 1 yr to be charged.. better to wait 1 yr to get it to stick then risk it...

 

[bellyup]

SN looks to the side and down? Hmm. I don’t see that at all. I also don’t sense any disagreement between SN and SA. “Not just one” (SN) is roughly equivalent, IMO, to “they change from day to day” (SA). In addition, the accompanying article apparently summarizes the interview, including, I presume, the parts left out. That SN doesn’t know who to be angry at, therefore, suggests he has no one in mind. And I’m guessing, based on what the sheriff has said (and he seems more candid than most), neither does LE.

You are taking the words at surface value. I'm talking about paralinguistics, micro expressions (0.5–4.0 secs), tone, pitch, gaze and the clusters therein. Not just what was said. You're free to interpenetrate it how you wish but I prefer to go beyond the words being said with the skills I have and of course, it's just my view.

Since body language is what I was discussing the accompanying article doesn't really apply.

However, I'm not sure "don't know who to be angry at" means what it says on the surface. I'd love to have seen the body language when that comment was made. It could indicate he's not sure if he should be angry with who he suspects, his sister, James, Jayme, someone from Jennie-O, God or aliens.

 

[sumzero]

Since body language is what I was discussing the accompanying article doesn't really apply.

However, I'm not sure "don't know who to be angry at" means what it says on the surface. I'd love to have seen the body language when that comment was made. It could indicate he's not sure if he should be angry with who he suspects, his sister, James, Jayme, someone from Jennie-O, God or aliens.

Well, if I were analyzing body language based on a very brief interview clip (probably a hazardous proposition, to say the least), I guess I’d be interested in knowing more about the interview, its content, for example, to see if it supports or undermines my analysis. But that’s just me.

 

[bellyup]

Well, if I were analyzing body language based on a very brief interview clip (probably a hazardous proposition, to say the least), I guess I’d be interested in knowing more about the interview, its content, for example, to see if it supports or undermines my analysis. But that’s just me.

I mean, kinesics and neuro linguistics are actual sciences based on evolutionary survival. The purpose is to analyze extremely brief non voluntary non verbal communications. That's... kinda the point.

It's not at all a "hazardous proposition" and is widely used by investigators of all types. In fact, the FBI has their own kinesics experts that they use in these cases. If you don't believe in it that's okay.

I'm deeply invested and believe in it's accuracy.

 

[Irmese]

A different theory that has crossed my mind: What if the perp was inside the home waiting for them to go to sleep so he could take Jayme? Denise or James wasn't asleep, maybe heard something. They could have thought they heard Jayme stirring around in the house, called out to her, no answer, got up to check and surprised the perp. He shoots James, maybe hitting the front door. I have wondered if Denise and Jayme were hiding in the same bathroom.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

A different theory that has crossed my mind: What if the perp was inside the home waiting for them to go to sleep so he could take Jayme? Denise or James wasn't asleep, maybe heard something. They could have thought they heard Jayme stirring around in the house, called out to her, no answer, got up to check and surprised the perp. He shoots James, maybe hitting the front door. I have wondered if Denise and Jayme were hiding in the same bathroom.

I am not even sure how the bathroom theory even formalized.

But LE has said James answered his door and he was shot and killed in that area right at the doorway area.

As for Denise being found in the bathroom that goes against what Fitzgerald said about the cell phone location which was used to place the 911 call.

He said the phone may have been kicked away. He also said that may be the reason the phone landed closer to Denise's body than Jim's.

Imo that means both parents were shot and killed in the same general location and found close to each other.

Now Jayme may have tried to hide in the bathroom or even her bedroom since Fitzgerald said the commotion overheard on the 911 call seemed to be coming from another room.

Jmo

 

[Jazzy5980]

Respectfully. A 13yr old kid doesn’t engage in a “fling” with an adult. There are scenarios in which kids are preyed upon and groomed by adults but those situations aren’t known as “flings”. I’ll leave it at that.

Thank you! A “fling” between an adult and a 13 year old is statutory rape. Moreover, any adult in medical/legal field would be subject to sanctions, potential loss of licensure and firing at the very least. “Fling” in this context is a very offensive oxymoron.

 

[doktor57]

A different theory that has crossed my mind: What if the perp was inside the home waiting for them to go to sleep so he could take Jayme? Denise or James wasn't asleep, maybe heard something. They could have thought they heard Jayme stirring around in the house, called out to her, no answer, got up to check and surprised the perp. He shoots James, maybe hitting the front door. I have wondered if Denise and Jayme were hiding in the same bathroom.

That would be pretty brazen. I think the simplest theory is that someone came to the door, knocked or pounded, and James and Denise were basically killed where they stood when the door was opened.

 

[Vaderman]

Am I the only one who doesn't buy that there have been no murders in Barron since 2002? Would be great if it were true, but that's just doesn't sound right.

I don't think it's that unlikely. I live in a town about the size and "make" of Barron. I've lived here since birth for nearly 31 years and we've never had a murder in my lifetime.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Thank you! A “fling” between an adult and a 13 year old is statutory rape. Moreover, any adult in medical/legal field would be subject to sanctions, potential loss of licensure and firing at the very least. “Fling” in this context is a very offensive oxymoron.

Thank you.

Especially when there is absolutely nothing supporting any of it.

She just turned 13 and not all 13 year old girls are alike either. Many are not interested in having a boyfriend of any kind at that age.

Teens are individuals...not clones who are exactly all the same.

 

[Irmese]

That would be pretty brazen. I think the simplest theory is that someone came to the door, knocked or pounded, and James and Denise were basically killed where they stood when the door was opened.

Yes, that's pretty much what has become the accepted theory, but I don't think it is the simplest answer. Busting in the door and shooting two people, then kidnapping a 13 yo girl is not a usual m.o. and very brazen Someone spying on young girls or women and working up to entering the home while they are sleeping, possibly several times before sexually assaulting them, that's more common, and so that is more understandable or simpler IMO.

 

[1987]

I am not sure if she may have had some involvement in some way. I am sure she was not of a age to consent to anything though. her idea of a relationship and a adults idea of a relationship would be very different moo

 

[Charliegizmo49]

Moo gunshot wound to the head would make me initially assume suicide attempt upon coming upon the scene. Again Moo.

Suicide is a normal first classification by dispatch until the situation is assessed and an accurate determination is complete. A dispatcher chooses how to classify an initial 911 call.

 

[Oakland CA]

Thank you! A “fling” between an adult and a 13 year old is statutory rape. Moreover, any adult in medical/legal field would be subject to sanctions, potential loss of licensure and firing at the very least. “Fling” in this context is a very offensive oxymoron.

The OP already apologised for using the wrong terminology, stating.......

"I didn't mean to lack respect, I didn't even mean "fling" at all. English is not my mother tongue and I actually meant a "crush". Please forgive my clumsiness."

 

[Elle*Bee]

Thank you! A “fling” between an adult and a 13 year old is statutory rape. Moreover, any adult in medical/legal field would be subject to sanctions, potential loss of licensure and firing at the very least. “Fling” in this context is a very offensive oxymoron.

The person who used the word “fling” already apologized. English is not his/her native language and selected the wrong word. Reading through the thread can be our friend. Just my opinion.

 

[Rubiconbob]

I am not sure if she may have had some involvement in some way. I am sure she was not of a age to consent to anything though. her idea of a relationship and a adults idea of a relationship would be very different moo

I struggle to think she had anything to do with this at all... if she despises her parents or they give her nothing....?? this appears they are just overprotective.. tough to see jayme telling 17 to 21 yr old... I hate them.. kill them and we can be together... no way... even at 13 she would realize after murders no money no home... plus there are 13 yr olds that are savvy and act 5 yrs older... that ain’t her.

I could see jayme having 17 to 21 yr old friend.. she has crush on... that parents disavow and call trash.. then that person flips out.. that I could buy.. her setting this in motion... don’t see it.

 

[bizzle2]

Well yes there is another way to interpret that: in context.

There really isn’t.

The only opening he left was when he said “probably.” Other than that, it’s very clear