AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #27

[bizzle2]

I don’t think gunshots... they would have said that on 911 dispatcher to responding officers...but think your right they likely have something... could be Closs family argue with perp 1 minute before shootings.... could be perps yelling at each other..or jayme...truly surreal.

Yea, I would think the dispatcher would say that. But I'm wondering if that's what they were able to hear when they cleaned up the audio.

 

[Evinrude]

It's also interesting that, according to the article, Denise died immediately. So it had to have been Jayme who made the call.

Again, just catching up so I don't know if that was already discussed.

ETA: maybe not, Denise could have called as soon as James was shot and the call lost before she was shot...

911 call was made probably when they realized they had a look outside wanting in. Call was made and James was telling perp to get the hell off husband property. Perp yelling back. Call is made, perp gain interior access, shoots James in the process

It's also interesting that, according to the article, Denise died immediately. So it had to have been Jayme who made the call.

Again, just catching up so I don't know if that was already discussed.

ETA: maybe not, Denise could have called as soon as James was shot and the call lost before she was shot...

perp banging on door or making a ruckus trying to gain entry. James and Denise awaken. Denise has phone in her hand as she fiollows her husband out to the situation. Immediately she dials 911 as perp makes entry. Loud voices both ways, James is shot and then Denise is shot before much can be said to dispatch.
Would Jayme have come out simultaneously?
With the 5 foot theory, this went down faster than maybe the minute or two I had originally thought.

 

[Evinrude]

Again, the priority is conviction, not finding Jayme.

Huh

 

[Quill]

I'd really like to know where each body and the phone that made the 911 call were located in the house.
ETA: Well, I guess we do know that James' body was in the doorway, so I'd like to know where Denise and the phone were found.

snipped by me

I wish I had time to find the link, but on one of the past threads here it was discussed the phone was found several feet away from either victim as though it had been flung or thrown in the middle of the floor. It caused many of us to wonder if maybe the one holding the phone had been shot, causing the phone to be sent flying on impact.

 

[Jazzy5980]

Again, the priority is conviction, not finding Jayme.

Bringing Jamey home and convicting the perp are not mutually exclusive.

 

[kc1023]

EXCLUSIVE: Sheriff chillingly reveals Wisconsin couple's killer took only FOUR minutes to enter house, shoot them dead and abduct their daughter Jayme Closs as police search for gun as key piece of evidence

Police say kidnapped Wisconsin teen and her parents' killer was in house for FOUR minutes | Daily Mail Online

Daily Mail Exclusive.

Wow. There is a lot in this article. It's going to keep us busy for awhile. Some of it is conflicting to what (we think) we know, isn't it? At first I thought it was just Daily Mail kind of making an article of that one sheriff interview podcast thing but it seems like they actually talked to him? I dunno, I gotta go re-read that about 17 times I think. jmo

ETA: It does say he talked to them:

Now Barron County Sheriff Chris Fitzgerald has shared troubling new information with DailyMailTV about the crime that took place on October 15 and has stunned the small town.

 

[mickey2942]

4 minutes, in and out. That is interesting. I wonder how they know that timeline.

 

[The Night Watchman]

From the Daily Mail article-

In fact there was no forensic evidence of any intruder at all.
The sheriff said: 'That's the frustrating part of it. We've had four different lab teams look at the scene before we released it. We were very strategic. When we discovered it was a major crime we sealed it off immediately.

This is discouraging to hear, and while he is probably being honest, it gives comfort to a killer. Maybe it is best unsaid, although he may have a reason for stating this that I/we are not aware of.

 

[Megnut]

If we can believe the daily mail article, both parents were shot from the entry... if the suspect never went beyond 5 feet in, why didn't the responding officers immediately radio in the second person down? Was she not immediately visible once they made entry??? IMO I think we all assumed LE was INSIDE looking, before finding Denise. Maybe they stayed outside, deciding how to go in.

How did LE determine that the suspect didn't go beyond 5 feet? Maybe a lack of bloody footprints? Given this scenario, it is possible there were never more than the two gunshots, and all the spent casings were near the door. Dear sweet Jayme may have run to her parents' side... maybe LE has HER footprints. ... that poor child, where is she? ???
How will this case be solved???? Is someone out there who knows something but is afraid to come forward???? Or is there someone who holds that crucial piece of information but doesn't know they have it??
I hope this new article will generate the break this case needs.
My heart goes out to everyone touched by this nightmare ...

 

[not.a.muggle]

911 call was made probably when they realized they had a look outside wanting in. Call was made and James was telling perp to get the hell off husband property. Perp yelling back. Call is made, perp gain interior access, shoots James in the process

perp banging on door or making a ruckus trying to gain entry. James and Denise awaken. Denise has phone in her hand as she fiollows her husband out to the situation. Immediately she dials 911 as perp makes entry. Loud voices both ways, James is shot and then Denise is shot before much can be said to dispatch.
Would Jayme have come out simultaneously?
With the 5 foot theory, this went down faster than maybe the minute or two I had originally thought.

All of that would have been heard on the call and recorded in the call log, which it was not. All they heard was yelling, no shots or banging.

 

[KLM6]

I would love to know how they know it was only 4 min

Or how they know someone only made it 5 feet in? Even if thats where they found Denise, how do they know thats where they stopped?

 

[JnRyan]

EXCLUSIVE: Sheriff chillingly reveals Wisconsin couple's killer took only FOUR minutes to enter house, shoot them dead and abduct their daughter Jayme Closs as police search for gun as key piece of evidence

Police say kidnapped Wisconsin teen and her parents' killer was in house for FOUR minutes | Daily Mail Online

Daily Mail Exclusive.

No evidence except the empty shell casings from whatever the killer used. The sheriff stated they are not releasing that information. And the killer only went about 5 feet into the house? And the FBI has different criminal profiles depending on whether Jayme, James or Denise was targeted. Interesting.

 

[holtzmann]

This is... a lot of new and specific information that I wish was corroborated in further MSM sources or official statements. Did Fitzgerald talk to anyone else? It seems odd that the Daily Mail would be the publication he chose to give an exclusive to. But who knows?

 

[JnRyan]

Or how they know someone only made it 5 feet in? Even if thats where they found Denise, how do they know thats where they stopped?

Footprints? That is the only thing I can think of. But he took Jayme without going any farther than that distance?

 

[daisy6441]

It is curious that he didn't venture into the house. That means everyone came to the living room when he entered. Maybe he grabbed Jayme if she was nearby and used her to lure Denise out?

 

[mama sleuth]

Police say kidnapped Wisconsin teen and her parents' killer was in house for FOUR minutes | Daily Mail Online

The killer was in the Closs home for only four minutes during which they stepped just five feet into the open plan house, shot James and Denise and took Jayme.

I think LE, long ago, dismissed the neighbors account of hearing shots earlier. Highlighted by me KILLER (as in ONE).

IMO - James went down first, Denise called 911 and was taken down and call connected to 911 right AFTER the shots were fired. Hence, no 911 report of shots fired.

 

[daisy6441]

Police say kidnapped Wisconsin teen and her parents' killer was in house for FOUR minutes | Daily Mail Online

The killer was in the Closs home for only four minutes during which they stepped just five feet into the open plan house, shot James and Denise and took Jayme.

I think LE, long ago, dismissed the neighbors account of hearing shots earlier. Highlighted by me KILLER (as in ONE).

IMO - James went down first, Denise called 911 and was taken down and call connected to 911 right AFTER the shots were fired. Hence, no 911 report of shots fired.

Sounds logical to me.

 

[DancingMuse]

It is curious that he didn't venture into the house. That means everyone came to the living room when he entered. Maybe he grabbed Jayme if she was nearby and used her to lure Denise out?

Thanks Daisy6441, You always make good points.

Maybe the perp was not inclined to "venture into the house", .....because some part of his leg was hurting from having kicked in the door.

Maybe adrenaline helped him then. But what about later?

I hope LE checked nearby hospitals, and chatted up the local orthopedic surgeons in the surrounding areas.

"Any males come in with a leg/ankle/knee in pain?"

"...and with an interesting 'story' on how it happened?"

On the other side, it could also be the type of injury which someone (a friend/relative/co-worker of the perp's) might not realize that they hold a critical piece of information that could solve this. Its implausible, but maybe they could remember it six weeks later:

"Yeah, Frank was limping last month. I asked him about it. He said he slipped on the ice and hurt his hip while fishing at his cabin north of here. "

 

[GordianKnot]

Police say kidnapped Wisconsin teen and her parents' killer was in house for FOUR minutes | Daily Mail Online

SABBM from above article:

• According to Fitzgerald the killer was in the Closs home for only four minutes during which they stepped just five feet into the open plan house, shot James and Denise and took Jayme.
• Both Denise and James died 'instantly' of their wounds, he said.
• There was nothing taken and nothing disturbed. In fact there was no forensic evidence of any intruder at all.
• The sheriff said: 'That's the frustrating part of it. We've had four different lab teams look at the scene before we released it. 'But if I'm in your house for minutes and I only step five feet inside your home I'm probably not going to leave a big footprint.'

• Meanwhile the FBI has provided not one but four psychological profiles of the possible killer depending on who the target was: Denise, James or Jayme.

____________________________

Okay, we have to consider the source here, i.e., there is likely more than a little "loose reporting", but if we take what the DM published as (mostly) factual, I have to wonder aloud: Short of a security camera being located at the house, how in the world can LE possibly know that the killer was only in the home for 4 minutes and/or that HE ONLY STEPPED 5 FEET INSIDE THE HOME? Especially if it's true that there is "no forensic evidence of any intruder at all." That makes no sense to me.

It's not at all encouraging to read that the FBI's BAU is struggling to develop a profile of the killer. I don't think trying to work off of 4 separate profiles is going to be terribly helpful to LE. Those 4 profiles collectively probably fit a hefty percentage of the male population in the United States. If this article is accurate and Fitzgerald was being truthful re: facts of the case, barring a meaningful tip being called in to LE, IMO, this investigation is in deep, deep trouble.

However, IMO, it's entirely possible that the FBI's BAU has suggested that LE present a "keystone cops" persona publicly. Fitzgerald may be deliberately disseminating misinformation to the press re: how little they know and how clueless they are in an attempt to get the guilty party to relax his guard and make a mistake.

 

[DutchTreat]

I would love to know how they know it was only 4 min

Maybe the 911 call was made before the first person way shot. And that the shots, and people being shot can be heard.