AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #31

[Forpsy]

What theories have the sheriff and authorities "ruled out already." I haven't heard any theories they have "ruled out already." I've heard them say they've yet to find any evidence pointing to certain theories, but that is not the same thing as having "ruled out" a theory.

New
ITA. Nothing has been ruled out. We may not be able to talk about it, but that doesn't mean it has been "ruled out."

 

[Via Marple]

Well if so, that phone would show up in a cell tower dump as a phone located at or very near the Closs home on as many occasions as it was used and law enforcement would be looking into the history of that phone and would have a good chance of identifying who has ever been associated with that phone.

Thanks for the info.

People here had discussed something similar some time ago. Would you know if there is a way to find all phones that were in the vicinity of the Closs home, around 0:30 to 1:00 that night, that had pinged a nearby cell tower? Assuming the perps were carrying phones which weren't switched off. TIA.

 

[2Hope4]

I just keep thinking about AH in NH. She was kidnapped while walking home from school, kept for months before being released. No one but the perp knew where she was. Kept in a shipping container, like the trailer part of a tractor trailer, right in this man's backyard! He had no relationship to AH or her family! Complete stranger! So it's possible a complete stranger is responsible in this case as well.

 

[Rubiconbob]

Exactly. She would be a VICTIM regardless. I do not even believe the

New
ITA. Nothing has been ruled out. We may not be able to talk about it, but that doesn't mean it has been "ruled out."

Nothing ruled out... Sherrif took the mattress of a 13 yr old girl.. didn’t do this at first but later did ... something made them think check mattress for bodily fluids ...maybe they sprayed the mattress and it showed fluids... maybe something else ...

Still say no on jayme boyfriend. But mattress ain’t 5 Ft in house. That’s an odd thing to take.. didn’t take parents mattress... weird right...

 

[Forpsy]

Nothing ruled out... Sherrif took the mattress of a 13 yr old girl.. didn’t do this at first but later did ... something made them think check mattress for bodily fluids ...maybe they sprayed the mattress and it showed fluids... maybe something else ...

Still say no on jayme boyfriend. But mattress ain’t 5 Ft in house. That’s an odd thing to take.. didn’t take parents mattress... weird right...

yup

 

[Rubiconbob]

Thanks for the info.

People here had discussed something similar some time ago. Would you know if there is a way to find all phones that were in the vicinity of the Closs home, around 0:30 to 1:00 that night, that had pinged a nearby cell tower? Assuming the perps were carrying phones which weren't switched off. TIA.

Number of people had this idea... think it’s good one .... id run the meta data on all cell phone records in that town ... for 60 days prior to incident and week after....!nightmare to get it... but anomaly has to be there... especially if it’s an argument or familynconnection.

 

[Andreee]

What theories have the sheriff and authorities "ruled out already." I haven't heard any theories they have "ruled out already." I've heard them say they've yet to find any evidence pointing to certain theories, but that is not the same thing as having "ruled out" a theory.

Last time I'm reposting this lol. The bf theory has been ruled out. Authorities are 'convinced.' We are going over old ground all the time now, and so bowing out til anything new materializes.
A month after Jayme Closs vanished, the feeling in her hometown is 'very dark'

 

[Pretty Go Pale]

Last time I'm reposting this lol. The bf theory has been ruled out. Authorities are 'convinced.' We are going over old ground all the time now, and so bowing out til anything new materializes.
A month after Jayme Closs vanished, the feeling in her hometown is 'very dark'

W/ all due respect, the assertion that "the bf theory has been ruled out" is simply factually incorrect. But we can just agree to disagree, as reasonable people often do.

 

[tiffkinsadder]

Just woke up thinking about Jayme. The why, The who and where on earth can she be.

Please we need answers and guidance.

Prayers.

 

[Rosiebones]

When simplicity of circumstance and common sense can't prevail, we are freed to let our imaginations soar, and we are soaring. Some day, hopefully soon, we each will know how close our imaginations led us the reality of this horrible crime.

 

[SeattleStew]

Nothing ruled out... Sherrif took the mattress of a 13 yr old girl.. didn’t do this at first but later did ... something made them think check mattress for bodily fluids ...maybe they sprayed the mattress and it showed fluids... maybe something else ...

Still say no on jayme boyfriend. But mattress ain’t 5 Ft in house. That’s an odd thing to take.. didn’t take parents mattress... weird right...

I think Jayme was sleeping with her mom in mom and dad bed/bedroom. James sleeping in sofa in living room when perp shows up. Denise leaves bed when she heard commotion at front door. Jayme uses Denise cell phone to call 911...IMO
Edited to add I believe Denise phone in her bedroom.

 

[JnRyan]

Thanks for the info.

People here had discussed something similar some time ago. Would you know if there is a way to find all phones that were in the vicinity of the Closs home, around 0:30 to 1:00 that night, that had pinged a nearby cell tower? Assuming the perps were carrying phones which weren't switched off. TIA.

This is another one we kicked around earlier. And we had a number of unanswered questions. LE would have to able to obtain a dump from the nearest tower(s) - it may involve more than one. LE may run into privacy law issues and would a judge allow search warrant for what might look like a fishing expedition. I'm not cell phone technology expert, but I would expect that if a phone is just laying on a counter or table and being charged it is doing very little pinging, if any, to a nearby tower. If that is true, there should be less activity at midnight than during the middle of the day. Also, this dump is going to comprise all activity within a radius with no way of knowing which direction it came from. (You need multiple towers to pinpoint a more exact location if I understand it correctly.) This radius may be over 20 miles.

Earlier, when LE was looking for 2 specific vehicles, I proposed obtaining a dump of that activity. Then obtaining a database of registered vehicles from the state dept of motor vehicles and sort it for all vehicles matching the descriptions. If LE could obtain the names/addresses of the phone numbers in that dump then you have another database. Using MicroSoft's Access you could try matching up names/addresses in cell tower dump with motor vehicle database to see what comes out. ASSUMING LE could get the names/addresses associated with the cell phone numbers it still has its weaknesses. Barron County is only one county over from Minnesota and those vehicles would not be in Wisconsin's database. If the killer(s) use a vehicle registered in someone else's name there won't be a match either.

 

[Julia966]

I think some people just think it's unlikely. At least the camp that I'm in. Certainly not offended by it, and it's something that is fair to discuss.

To me, the idea that a 13 year old girl from a blue collar family in a small town would be sophisticated enough to have a second cell phone is a little far-fetched.

It would shock me even more if she was in contact with a boyfriend/pedophile/etc. and the FBI couldn't find that connection.

That being said, it's certainly possible. Likely? No.

I put it in the same category as any theory that involves Jayme being a participant in her parents murders -- there is zero evidence to support it, but it can't be 100% ruled out.

The idea of buying a burner phone for a few bucks that mom and dad don't know about is not all that sophisticated, IMO, and IF it happened, which right now there's no evidence to support, then it may very well have been the perp's idea as opposed to hers. IF there's a burner phone that she has with her, I think it could be tracked down only by finding the store it came from, which while perhaps not impossible to do, would take some time.

 

[oceanstarryeyes]

“For now, the police keep searching and hoping for a break.

They are convinced that Jayme Closs didn’t run away with a boyfriend.

Jayme’s phone was found in the house, along with those of her parents, Fitzgerald said. And there’s nothing in the girl’s phone to suggest she was communicating with a boy.

“There’s no digital footprint that says ‘I love you,’ or ‘Come save me from my mom and dad,’ ” Fitzgerald said. “If there was, then we’d have something to go on.”

A month after Jayme Closs vanished, the feeling in her hometown is 'very dark'

But the choice of wording used by Jaymes relatives in the interviews right after the murders, pleading directly to Jayme to come home instead of directing their words to a stranger that may have kidnapped Jayme still remains a mystery why it sounded as though they assumed Jayme had the free will to return on her own.

 

[Kazoochka]

Just my opinion as someone who hasn't gone as in depth on this case as most - The "BF theory" doesn't sit right with me. I've seen dozens of cases over the years of the daughter aged 12-18 who has a (usually older, bad boy type) boyfriend and either she gets him to do it or he does it "to be with her" etc. They go on the run and are caught within hours or at most a couple of days. Reckless kids who think that killing her parents to be together and live happily ever after is a viable idea do really stupid things like being caught on camera at McDonalds 5 hours later or checking into a motel using their real names that night. They also leave cell phone evidence everywhere. They don't disappear for 2 months with no trace despite everyone looking for her.

Unfortunately, this sounds far more like the Joseph Duncan case in Idaho where a stranger killed a family and kidnapped the two youngest kids. Took two months to find him then too.

 

[*Removed_for_profanity*]

My issue with burner phones and coaching from the perp to hide internet activity is that she would still have to do her part on her end. I don’t think she can do it flawlessly, even with the best coach in the world. Again, thinking of my own daughter, she can’t turn the hall light off with any degree of consistency. With daily “coaching.”

Here’s my question to those that know a lot more about the internet than I do (this comes from my daughter asking about a second Snap chat acct): Let’s say I go and create a Hotmail email acct, then go to snap chat and create an acct. Now I log out of both, go to hotmail and create a second acct, and then a second snap chat with the second email account. Will my history show that I created two different accounts for both? And will my email/profile names be available? Or will my history just show that I visited those two web sites at different times? If the latter, that’s the only way I see an online connection to the perp possible (if LE statement is true). That’s the only way I see LE not finding it yet. With a subpoena they obviously could, but maybe not enough for that yet...

I realize that you’d think this would most likely have come up when her friends were interviewed. Making it more unlikely in my mind, but that’s the only way I see it possible.

 

[*Removed_for_profanity*]

Just my opinion as someone who hasn't gone as in depth on this case as most - The "BF theory" doesn't sit right with me. I've seen dozens of cases over the years of the daughter aged 12-18 who has a (usually older, bad boy type) boyfriend and either she gets him to do it or he does it "to be with her" etc. They go on the run and are caught within hours or at most a couple of days. Reckless kids who think that killing her parents to be together and live happily ever after is a viable idea do really stupid things like being caught on camera at McDonalds 5 hours later or checking into a motel using their real names that night. They also leave cell phone evidence everywhere. They don't disappear for 2 months with no trace despite everyone looking for her.

Unfortunately, this sounds far more like the Joseph Duncan case in Idaho where a stranger killed a family and kidnapped the two youngest kids. Took two months to find him then too.

Those are my same issues with a random attack. Those are usually done by career criminals, and career criminals are usually turnips. Even the case you mentioned, didn’t that guy get seen on security cameras in gas staitions and caught having breakfast at Denny’s?

 

[girlhasnoname]

Sorry this is long. Just some things I'm mulling over, and it's nothing new and groundbreaking, but based on some discussions here as well as looking at the case on other platforms I'd say im leaning torwards:

1) perp began by kicking at the door. James and Denise both heard some sort of noise at the front of the house and James went to investigate and found it was coming from the door. Once he realized it was someone or more than one person trying to get in he yelled for Denise to hide and call 911. By this time the perp had been working on the door so he finally got it down before James had a chance to hide anywhere himself and was shot immediately- hence why initial report was that the man down had "answered the door"
Denise was in the process of calling 911 but was shot in that limbo area of phone calls where it takes a second after you dial for it to hook up and start ringing to the number you're calling. This would account for dispatcher not being able to speak with anyone but hearing commotion and jayme's "help!" in the background

2) someone forcing their way in makes some people think burglary, but perp seemed ready and prepared to kill whoever was at the door. Could still possibly indicate burglary but from what I've seen and have been told by cops, most home burglars want to take the path of least resistance when they break in. They don't want to make a lot of commotion and draw attention, and they typically don't want to bring murder into it--yes they probably aren't of the highest moral fiber but really, they're there for money/goods. I know people who have been home when a burglar came in and perp didn't kill them--they were too busy tearing the house apart. They want to get in and out as quickly as possible (one caveat to this is that if perp was high, the typical home invasion scenario very well may not apply here and they could come in a blitz attack and not be worried about being inconspicuous.) but I'm really thinking this wasn't a burglary motive. They either wanted James/Denise dead from the get go for a personal vendetta against them, or they wanted them dead in order to take Jayme. So I guess now I'm still leaning away from this being totally random

3) there's been a lot of talk about burner phones and apps where teens can be secretive. I have nothing to add on that front but I will say that I was a teenager in the late 90s into early 00s when the internet was really taking off and quite the novelty. I was like Jayme in a lot of ways- shy, but friendly and smiley, and not overly mature for my age. I talked to A LOT of boys in chat rooms and over instant messenger. I exchanged pictures with them, even talked to some of them on the phone. My parents didn't really know the extent to what I was doing. However, at least my best friend knew if not a couple friends. They were doing the same thing, some more than others. When you're 13 you're really starting to move your friendships away from just child's play into confiding and discussing teenage hood topics like wearing bras and shaving and periods, boys, teachers, etc. Teenage girls talk A LOT. If Jayme had been talking to a male, I really believe LE would know that from interviewing her friends.

Just my experience and JMO

Great post, thanks for sharing this perspective.

 

[ilovechili]

Totally enjoy reading your thoughts, chili. Someone or some people were off the chain in this crime, so I do think we keep it hinged in all the same here. It is hard, sometimes.

I enjoy reading yours as well. And everyone's for that matter. I just hope this can be kept alive and not go cold. It is difficult when there is not much that is factual or new to discuss. I would say that everyone makes a great effort to keep it going. Hopefully something breaks soon.

I still wonder about forensics and dna, etc. I mean I assume because of this case being at the top of the list or at least it was and because of agency involvement, they may have had a quick turn around on results. I wonder though if that is the case with every test and lab, etc. We have all heard of tests that can take months or even years at times.

I guess I am hoping they still get something whether it be off the electronics, whether it be dna, fingerprints, etc. Even then they would need to match most things to a perp unless the perp(s) have a prior record and their info is in the system.

 

[IceIce9]

A month after Jayme Closs vanished, the feeling in her hometown is 'very dark'

I read that article but respectfully that is not ruling out that Jayme didn’t know the person.

While I don’t believe she had any knowledge or involvement regarding the murders of her parents I think it is possible someone she knew was involved. IMO.

It is not, obviously, a boyfriend in a traditional sense where they went out in dates, visited each other in their homes, etc.

However she could have had a friend, either an older teen or an adult, whom she confided in, had a crush on, etc. Or an adult she knew through school, church, or dance who developed an unhealthy obsession with her.

Possible that she confided in an adult acquaintance (again- school employee, dance coach, Sunday school teacher, grocery store bagger, convenience store employee etc) some teenage grievances about her patents being too restrictive, etc.

LE admits they have no motive at this time.

Do you have another link?