Wrongful death trial begins. Trial coverage and discussion #2

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What are the chances the child fell over a banister that an expert said was too high for that to be possible? And the disrespected-by-siblings, cheated-on girlfriend and her sister were the only ones in the house? Suspected “motive” in either case is not enough. So knowing about Max isn’t conclusive.

Being alone on the house. So was Rebecca and her sister with Max. Do you believe motive and “being alone”support accusing Rebecca of Max’s murder?

So he knew about knots? How did he become this super assassination essentially in two days... that knew how to remove his dna and fingerprints from every surface and commit a near perfect murder?
Knowing about Max is more likely than not likely (I'd put it higher) because of the message painted on the door the night of her murder.

I'm only discussing Rebecca's death.

Adam didn't need to be a super assassin to know to wipe places he touched and/or wear gloves. Why is his DNA not on Rebecca when it should be if he held her body and did CPR on her?
 
Wright testified that she saw no evidence anything had been wiped down. But then Greer asked specifically about a section of the balcony door that appeared, in a photo, to have little or no black fingerprint dust stuck to it. (LITTLE OR NO FINGERPRINT DUST)

The expert agreed that it could have, in fact, been wiped by someone wanting to remove traces of his or her fingers.

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/...321-story.html
So that doesn't say the dust has been wiped. The dust didn't stick because there were no prints to stick to in that section.
 
Knowing about Max is more likely than not likely (I'd put it higher) because of the message painted on the door the night of her murder.

I'm only discussing Rebecca's death.

Adam didn't need to be a super assassin to know to wipe places he touched and/or wear gloves. Why is his DNA not on Rebecca when it should be if he held her body and did CPR on her?

My point is that the majority of the “reasons” used here...not all, but many, could have been used to implicate Rebecca in a murder of Max.

Adam’s innocence does not need to be proved. But to take away everything a man owns and mark him as a murderer...you need a strong case. Asking why you don’t have certain evidence...whether due to a faulty investigation or innocence...is not “proof” of anything.

I think the plaintiffs case is weak.
 
Very interesting about the possibility of a split verdict. To be honest I am glad that is a possibility because that is exactly how I would vote. Yes to murder, no to Adam's guilt.

IF that happens it could potentially put enough pressure on LE to re-open the investigation. That would be a victory imo.

I have a question for Mr. Greer. I'd like to know why he rules out a murder for hire? He seems to have an insistence that since Adam was supposedly the only other person at the house he must be the killer. I don't get that logic. The doors were left open. What's to stop an outside killer(s) from coming in, hired by someone who wants to maintain an air tight alibi?

Something that is significant to me is the opinion of Dina Shacknai. She lost her only son. She has been immersed in this on the most deepest personal level. She hired professionals who concluded herboy could not have gone over that banister on his own. These were independent professionals. It probably cost her thousands of dollars. She begged for the investigation into her son's death to be re-opened. LE wouldn't do it.

Dina thinks Rebecca was murdered, and it's linked to Max's death. I agree with her. However, she doesn't believe it was Adam. WHO ELSE COULD IT BE? Because Dina knows full well it was Adam in the guest house that night. So if Dina is considering a different killer other than Adam, why can't Mr. Greer or LE?

Killers often take elaborate steps to cover their crimes and distance themselves from the crime scene. I don't see why that was ruled out in this case?
 
Very interesting about the possibility of a split verdict. To be honest I am glad that is a possibility because that is exactly how I would vote. Yes to murder, no to Adam's guilt.

IF that happens it could potentially put enough pressure on LE to re-open the investigation. That would be a victory imo.

I have a question for Mr. Greer. I'd like to know why he rules out a murder for hire? He seems to have an insistence that since Adam was supposedly the only other person at the house he must be the killer. I don't get that logic. The doors were left open. What's to stop an outside killer(s) from coming in, hired by someone who wants to maintain an air tight alibi?

Something that is significant to me is the opinion of Dina Shacknai. She lost her only son. She has been immersed in this on the most deepest personal level. She hired professionals who concluded herboy could not have gone over that banister on his own. These were independent professionals. It probably cost her thousands of dollars. She begged for the investigation into her son's death to be re-opened. LE wouldn't do it.

Dina thinks Rebecca was murdered, and it's linked to Max's death. I agree with her. However, she doesn't believe it was Adam. WHO ELSE COULD IT BE? Because Dina knows full well it was Adam in the guest house that night. So if Dina is considering a different killer other than Adam, why can't Mr. Greer or LE?

Killers often take elaborate steps to cover their crimes and distance themselves from the crime scene. I don't see why that was ruled out in this case?

Excellent post.

If this lawsuit is about the truth, and not about money, then you are exactly right. It would never be about getting just anybody to be nailed for RZ death...it should be getting the true murderer in prison. Only THAT...is justice for Rebecca. No grief would be assuaged by ruining the wrong person or raking his life’s income.

In Greer’s interview with Tricia he states that this is key evidence:


“Mr. Greer: You know, I feel the same, because the critical factor here, which we stated in our open, which we've stated in all our pleadings, and all the interviews I've had, is that whoever killed Rebecca left a message. Whether it was suicide or murder, the person left a message: She saved him can you save her. And even Detective Tsuida, who's the lead detective for the sheriff's department said on the stand, they were tossing around meanings of that saying and they ... the one they thought was most likely, uh, the proper interpretation was 'she saved him' was Rebecca saved Max, because everyone in the family felt at that time that Rebecca being there and giving Max CPR saved his life. Max was still in a tough spot, but at least he had a chance, because Rebecca was there and saved his life.

So if you use that as a characteristic of the culprit, that they were aware - whoever did this was aware that Rebecca had saved Max, that narrows the universe of people that could've done this down to a very small group because this wasn't in the press yet. It didn't get in to the press until Rebecca's hanging. “

Right here...Greer kills the theory that this was a revenge killing. The family, according to Greer, thought Rebecca had “saved” Max...they were grateful. So there was no reason for anyone to “hire” Adam...as was-speculated here on WS.

So, by Greer’s own account, this has to be a sex crime. This man arrives to comfort his brother, has a somber dinner with him and his girlfriend...and then decides to suit up with gloves, get a magic towel, rape and murder the girlfriend in bizarre fashion...and, oh yeah, leave a note...challenging his brother. “Ha...ha! Can you save her!”

And he manages to wipe every bit of his presence from the scene...genius criminal that he is.

Such is the plaintiffs case.
 
The premise that AS had to do it because he was the only one there is faulty. No one knows who else may have been there or come there. Anyone with half a brain will have this come to mind. Besides this faulty theory I don’t see any glaring evidence that points to him other than nautical knots but I don’t think that’s enough to ruin a mans life. It’s just too bad that LE did such a lousy job investigating this case and didnt even check *advertiser censored* room out. Someone killed her but who?
 
This is the first time I have checked in since early in the trial. Feel free to correct me if my summary contains any errors.

Not sure Adam Shacknai was very well coached by his team of high priced attorneys for his testimony on Monday.

For example, with that arrogant expression and leaning back in his chair as if to show disinterest in the trial and/or disdain for the plaintiffs is not a good look IMO.

VIDEO SNIPPET OF HIS TESTIMONY:
https://www.10news.com/news/brother...ifies-in-coronado-mansion-death-lawsuit-trial.

It appears no evidence stands out more than:
1. The sophisticated knots that were used to bind her hands.
2. The plaintiff's handwriting analyst who showed persuasive comparative photos which seemed to show the cryptic note on the wall looked more like Adam's handwriting than Rebecca's.

But will this be enough?

At the end of Monday's video I linked to above the reporter predicted two more weeks. But now some are saying it may go to the jury next Tuesday or Wednesday. The family needs 9 of 12 jurors to win the case -- a $10M lawsuit.
 
Excellent post.

If this lawsuit is about the truth, and not about money, then you are exactly right. It would never be about getting just anybody to be nailed for RZ death...it should be getting the true murderer in prison. Only THAT...is justice for Rebecca. No grief would be assuaged by ruining the wrong person or raking his life’s income.

In Greer’s interview with Tricia he states that this is key evidence:


“Mr. Greer: You know, I feel the same, because the critical factor here, which we stated in our open, which we've stated in all our pleadings, and all the interviews I've had, is that whoever killed Rebecca left a message. Whether it was suicide or murder, the person left a message: She saved him can you save her. And even Detective Tsuida, who's the lead detective for the sheriff's department said on the stand, they were tossing around meanings of that saying and they ... the one they thought was most likely, uh, the proper interpretation was 'she saved him' was Rebecca saved Max, because everyone in the family felt at that time that Rebecca being there and giving Max CPR saved his life. Max was still in a tough spot, but at least he had a chance, because Rebecca was there and saved his life.

So if you use that as a characteristic of the culprit, that they were aware - whoever did this was aware that Rebecca had saved Max, that narrows the universe of people that could've done this down to a very small group because this wasn't in the press yet. It didn't get in to the press until Rebecca's hanging. “

Right here...Greer kills the theory that this was a revenge killing. The family, according to Greer, thought Rebecca had “saved” Max...they were grateful. So there was no reason for anyone to “hire” Adam...as was-speculated here on WS.

So, by Greer’s own account, this has to be a sex crime. This man arrives to comfort his brother, has a somber dinner with him and his girlfriend...and then decides to suit up with gloves, get a magic towel, rape and murder the girlfriend in bizarre fashion...and, oh yeah, leave a note...challenging his brother. “Ha...ha! Can you save her!”

And he manages to wipe every bit of his presence from the scene...genius criminal that he is.

Such is the plaintiffs case.

What <modsnip>l is a "magic towel"?
 
This is the first time I have checked in since early in the trial. Feel free to correct me if my summary contains any errors.

Not sure Adam Shacknai was very well coached by his team of high priced attorneys for his testimony on Monday.

For example, with that arrogant expression and leaning back in his chair as if to show disinterest in the trial and/or disdain for the plaintiffs is not a good look IMO.

VIDEO SNIPPET OF HIS TESTIMONY:
https://www.10news.com/news/brother...ifies-in-coronado-mansion-death-lawsuit-trial.

It appears no evidence stands out more than:
1. The sophisticated knots that were used to bind her hands.
2. The plaintiff's handwriting analyst who showed persuasive comparative photos which seemed to show the cryptic note on the wall looked more like Adam's handwriting than Rebecca's.

At the end of Monday's video I linked to above the reporter predicted two more weeks. But now some are saying it may go to the jury next Tuesday or Wednesday. The family needs 9 of 12 jurors to win the case -- a $10M lawsuit.

I read here that the family didn&#8217;t want the money. Really, a 10 million dollar lawsuit? Is Adam worth ten milion?
 
Snipped from minute order Seattle1 posted:

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/s...eath-Lawsuit-Overview&p=14010388#post14010388

Seattle1 :wave:

Have you seen any requests from the media to stream Jonah’s testimony? TIA

Counsel give the following estimates for examination for witnesses on Thursday:

Jonah Shacknai: Defendant - 1/12 hours; Plaintiff - 20-30 minutes
Dave Oleksow: Defendant - 1 hour; Plaintiff - 20 - 30 minutes
Robert Chisnall: Defendant - 90 minutes; Plaintiff - 30 minutes

The Court directs counsel to return tomorrow at 9:00AM if they want to take up an issue out of the presence of the jury, otherwise to return at 9:15AM.
 
Yes, but if it is the black fingerprint dust that&#8217;s been wiped...then how did Adam wipe that dust during the investigation. The &#8220;someone&#8221; could have been one of the investigators who put his hand there, then wiped it.

The &#8220;expert conceded&#8221; only that someone could have wiped the black fingerprint dust.

The evidence presented stated that fingerprint dust would not stick to the door because it had recently been wiped.

What is your theory as to why none of Adam's DNA was found on Rebecca, even though Adam claims he did CPR on Rebecca. Also none of Adam's DNA was found on the rope when he cut down Rebecca. Adam stated he held Rebecca's body with one hand while he cut the rope, and that he jumped off the table holding Rebecca's body.

There were gloves found at the scene but for some reason the testing was done incorrectly. I need to go back and check exactly why they cannot be retested.

Would like to hear your theory as to why none of Adam&#8217;s DNA was found on items he says he touched.
 
The investigative value that the shoe ridges and footprint evidence has in this case, is compelling. The findings indicate that Rebecca was not alone on the balcony the night she died. For example, no left footprints from Ms. Zahau were found on the balcony – not one. It is highly unlikely that Ms. Zahau maneuvered from the balcony door to the balcony railing on one foot. The absence of left footprints suggests that Ms. Zahau was lifted from behind and carried onto the balcony. This finding is supported by the partial unknown shoe ridges found on top and behind Rebecca's footprints.

The likely sequence of events involved the perpetrator carrying the victim from inside the room to the balcony door. The perpetrator then needed to get a better grip on the victim so he/she placed Ms. Zahau down allowing only her right foot to make contact with the dusty floor - just at the entrance. The perpetrator then lifted her up again and stepped forward towards the railing again sitting the victim down for a second allowing her right foot to make contact with the balcony floor. Then Ms. Zahau was tossed over the balcony.

great photos at link: http://www.drmauricegodwin.com/shoeprintanalysis.html

This may be the first analysis of the footprints on the balcony, but it has been and continues to be the one that makes the most sense, imo.
 
The premise that AS had to do it because he was the only one there is faulty. No one knows who else may have been there or come there. Anyone with half a brain will have this come to mind. Besides this faulty theory I don&#8217;t see any glaring evidence that points to him other than nautical knots but I don&#8217;t think that&#8217;s enough to ruin a mans life. It&#8217;s just too bad that LE did such a lousy job investigating this case and didnt even check *advertiser censored* room out. Someone killed her but who?

It had to be someone who knew about what had happened to Max because of what was painted on the door.

Who else beside family knew what happened to Max?
 
Love Mr. Greer, but given how Rebecca was found, I disagree with him on this point. At a minimum the 'Asian bondage *advertiser censored*' lead needed to be followed all the way down.

I believe it was determined to be an automatic computer cookie update on the computer in the residence. Adam did admit to viewing *advertiser censored* in the guest residence on the night Rebecca was hanged.

Too many things to remember.
 
Even if correct, that evidence does not prove Adam did it. There’s no fingerprint and no DNA. This trial is not just about prov8ng murder...you must PROVE it was Adam.

Not necessarily. I'd suggest you listen to Tricia's latest interview with Mr. Greer, or read my post with quotes from it a few pages back.
 
No, the expert conceded "it could have, in fact, been wiped by someone wanting to remove traces of his or her fingers"

I'm remember that Lezah, one of our awesome 'court reporters,' said that one of the pieces of evidence in the courtroom (or perhaps a picture of a door?) was stunning in that it showed very clearly where it had been wiped down.
 
I believe the investigation into Max&#8217;s death was incomplete. One big factor is that the only supposed witness, Rebecca, was dead. If it is true that Jonah told RZ that Max was unlikely to survive, she would have known that she would be subjected to an investigation. There would be questions about staging, CPR...even assuming her innocence...what a stressful period was in her future. Add to that the cheating boyfriend and the just endured time with disrespectful teens.

Her diary did indicate that she was stressing and crying. One of the weaknesses in the plaintiffs case is denying the obvious. If he claims her religion would keep her from suicide...well, it did not keep her from numerous adulteries and theft.

Admitting the truth, even when painful, requires a moral compass as well.
 
Not necessarily. I'd suggest you listen to Tricia's latest interview with Mr. Greer, or read my post with quotes from it a few pages back.

I did both.

Do you mean the jury may decide RZ was murdered, but not by Adam. No money then...but further investigation. Yes, I agree with that premise.
 
I'm remember that Lezah, one of our awesome 'court reporters,' said that one of the pieces of evidence in the courtroom (or perhaps a picture of a door?) was stunning in that it showed very clearly where it had been wiped down.

The testimony was that it was black fingerprint dust that was wiped down. How does that implicate Adam...if that wipedown occurred during the investigation?
 
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