Wrongful death trial begins. Trial coverage and discussion #2

[Verboten]

I just rewatched the part of the polygraph interview where he is asked about rope & he says: "(it was) rope, red rope, something that wouldn't just be laying around, I wouldn't think." Then he says it's kind of like Kevlar, a synthetic. Kevlar is used for boating, so he knew all about *rope,* just no knots? That was very specific. Plus, he should be ask why he doesn't think that kind of rope wouldn't just b lying around, what made him volunteer that comment?

I'd like to know if LE ever tried to find out if that rope (with limited DNA) was ever really just lying around the garage? Was it new? Looks like it. Was there packaging? Who bought it (investigators who are trying to be thorough would usually try to track this down). I know Jonah supposedly had boats, but is there any indication it had been used to tie any of Jonah's boats? Might Adam have brought it with him?

 

[Verboten]

Questions about the t-shirt gag in her mouth and removing it - he didn't recall, until prompted when he suddenly recalled a little. A pattern that kind of repeated itself. They were important events most people would be unable to forget, yet he says he doesn't remember.

Greer did say something like, "is that because you were told by this point to not recall in order to avoid further questioning...??" Glad he threw that in.

The T-shirt gag comment was something: AS: "a little. I've never seen a gag before, so have nothing to compare it to." Really? Did they ask that??? -- relative to your typical gag, Mr. Shacknai, would you say this gag had the standard amount of material in the mouth, or a lot more or less than most gags? NO! Was a LOT or a LITTLE of her t-shirt in her mouth when you found her? You don't need to be a gag expert to give a straightforward answer to that question!

 

[IzzyBlanche]

Questions about the t-shirt gag in her mouth and removing it - he didn't recall, until prompted when he suddenly recalled a little.

Snipped for focus.

Wait, wait, wait. T-shirt gag in her mouth? HOW have I missed this?

Edited: Would someone please explain? This is new to me, obviously.

 

[justice be served]

Thanks, that's a good summary! I've watched some of it (keep getting side tracked) and one thing that stood out to me is how many times he said "I don't recall" to really important questions. JMO he was coached on those. One example was Greer asking him about when he came out of the guest house and first saw Rebecca hanging there, how did she look? Which direction was she facing? He didn't recall. Questions about the t-shirt gag in her mouth and removing it - he didn't recall, until prompted when he suddenly recalled a little. A pattern that kind of repeated itself. They were important events most people would be unable to forget, yet he says he doesn't remember.

My unsolicited, unprofessional suggestion for Mr. Greer (hope he doesn't mind): If Adam's awkward, bumbling persona on the stand is eliciting some sympathy from the jury and others in the courtroom, find a way to ask him some questions that trigger the arrogant, entitled side of his personality. He definitely has that side, so see if you can find a way to bring it out.

BBM: Betty, perfect that you say that because, I must admit, I have not seen in court (and I’ve probably missed it in other cases) that Adam is entitled-acting due to his privilege through Jonah. I’m not saying I don’t believe that it is untrue – I just haven’t seen enough of Adam, until today, and I am afraid that the jury saw what I saw. That he’s just a goofy, maybe slow, anti-social kind of guy. I truly hope that that doesn’t point toward sympathy. It didn’t for me, but I thought that he’s just not all there. So, yes, that side of him should be brought out for sure.

 

[minorone]

Snipped for focus.

Wait, wait, wait. T-shirt gag in her mouth? HOW have I missed this?

Edited: Would someone please explain? This is new to me, obviously.

Snipped for focus.

Wait, wait, wait. T-shirt gag in her mouth? HOW have I missed this?

Edited: Would someone please explain? This is new to me, obviously.

She was gagged with a long sleeved T-shirt wrapped around her head with the sleeves double knotted and stuffed into her mouth. Adam removed the gag to supposedly give her CPR.

Things Adam say when questioned by KG:
- did not notice gag in her mouth till he tried to give her CPR
- took shirt out of her mouth but does not recall how much was stuffed in her mouth. Adam does say it was not a whole lot
- he thinks he remembers trying to put hands in to take her pulse, but ropes were so tight so he loosen some ropes. He said he tried to pry under ropes talking to police and it was his best description & best description at this time.
- after EMS came, rather than call your brother, you sent him a text – Adam does not recall that.


When Adam spoke to Jonah he did not tell Jonah that Rebecca was hanged.- when asked what should happen to someone that intentional did this to someone. Adam response was that he had not taught it through that far at that time & but did not understand the question. After he understood the question, he said something bad should happen and he was very tough on violent crime.

Yet when he called EMS he says "I have a girl she hanged herself".

 

[IzzyBlanche]

She was gagged with a long sleeved blue T-shirt wrapped around her head with the sleeves double knotted and stuffed into her mouth.

Thank you.

As suicide victims do.

 

[justice be served]

She was gagged with a long sleeved blue T-shirt wrapped around her head with the sleeves double knotted and stuffed into her mouth.

Yes, gagged, along with legs bound, arms bound behind her and hog tied weren't enough. Not to mention that she struck herself 4 times in the head, damaged her back (with her knee????? in her back- whoops that isn't possible). Quite an amazing suicide isn't it? Preposterous.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

Yes, gagged, along with legs bound, arms bound behind her and hog tied weren't enough. Not to mention that she struck herself 4 times in the head, damaged her back (with her knee????? in her back- whoops that isn't possible). Quite an amazing suicide isn't it? Preposterous.

And the knife thing.

 

[minorone]

Yes, gagged, along with legs bound, arms bound behind her and hog tied weren't enough. Not to mention that she struck herself 4 times in the head, damaged her back (with her knee????? in her back- whoops that isn't possible). Quite an amazing suicide isn't it? Preposterous.

When questioned about the suicide/hanging by KG, he has a hard time recalling things; but when questioned by his lawyer about other events, his recall is much improved. You would think that you would remember the most traumatic event the best.

 

[cynic]

For those who are unable to access the video from today...
Portions of Adam Shacknai’s testimony from the live stream provided by CW San Diego / News 8

Part1:
http://dai.ly/x6gkulq

Part2:
http://dai.ly/x6gkuls

Part3:
http://dai.ly/x6gkulr

 

[justice be served]

Trial Day Monday - After Lunch

Not sure if this was streamed and you've all seen it but I didn't see the cameraman there for a part of the afternoon.

The surprise for me - during the defense on the 911 call testimony - was that Adam not only got the knife to cut Rebecca down from the main house (which was unlocked early morning) but he also went through the main house through the front door (which was also unlocked early morning) to go back to the courtyard after retrieving the house address from the street side. What? The main house wasn't locked at any door?? That just doesn't make sense. I know Coronado is very safe but why wouldn't Rebecca lock the doors before retiring for the night. And, with that kind of reasoning, why didn't Nina or DS walk right in when they came by late at night?

Now maybe Adam went out the front door of the main house (thus unlocking it) and then went back into the house after retrieving the address for 911. But something doesn't add up here at all. Smells very fishy.

I also liked Greer asking Adam why he didn't just cut Rebecca down while standing on his tip toes without the use of a table. Well Adam didn't know how many feet Rebecca was off the ground and didn't have any real answers. Keith said "didn't this make a vivid impression on you?". Guess not because Adam couldn't answer.

The two detectives after break, Detective Troy BuGal, basically stated that his role was to do the area canvas and originally was going to do also the evidence marking. As it turns out he only did the area canvassing. There was a lot of talk about recreating the sounds that a neighbor (Mrs. Allison) heard but it wasn't done. The final take was that children had made that noise playing around and that Mrs. Allison's words changed through the interviews. Okay..........

Greer hammered on BuGal on many fronts: Since suicide was found to be the finding by the many detectives involved and you agreed with that finding.... Forensically and logically, did the others tell you about the evidence such as the menstrual blood, did they discuss no fingerprints on the door knobs, the tying up demonstration (saw it on TV), did you vote also for suicide, how many were involved in the vote, etc. Basically Greer denigrated BuGal's participation in the facts because he answered no to all of these. He had a small part in the findings overall.

Most every time that Greer stated these questions (above), the defense objected and the judge overruled. I wish I had counted how many times. Yeah!!!!

Detective Todd Norton on stand. They interviewed JS. He assigned who searched what with Norton searching bottom basement, living room, master bedroom, kitchen, butler pantry.

He also did an Excel spreadsheet on Rebecca's phone indicating the text messages due to the fact they had no forensic tech to download the info.

They spent a lot of time on the rope analysis with this detective on lengths, etc, I must admit it was confusing to me and probably to the jury.

They expect the trial to continue into April - perhaps April 3rd. They believe, though, that they will lose one juror who had a commitment to vacation but they have two backups.

 

[bourne]

Questions for Greer:

How did Adam balance on broken, lopsided three-legged table in courtyard to cut Rebecca down?

Did Adam offer Rebecca ambien the night of her murder?

Did he hear any music or noise or screams while he was in guesthouse that night into morning of Rebecca's hanging?

What time did Adam go to sleep?

Who asked him to come to Coronado? Jonah or Dina or both?

Did he speak with Dina after Max was injured? How many times did he speak with Dina? with Nina? with Jonah?

Did Dina/Nina/Jonah text him while he was in Coronado?

Did Adam see Max at all on the day(s) he flew to SD?

What was his purpose at Coronado when he spent most of it away from Jonah and at Spreckels mansion instead of at Ronald McDonald House or the hospital?

How much money did Jonah and/or Dina give him after Rebecca's murder? How did he suddenly afford the new house in TN?

 

[justice be served]

Questions for Greer:

How did Adam balance on broken, lopsided three-legged table in courtyard to cut Rebecca down?

Did Adam offer Rebecca ambien the night of her murder?

Did he hear any music or noise or screams while he was in guesthouse that night into morning of Rebecca's hanging?

What time did Adam go to sleep?

Who asked him to come to Coronado? Jonah or Dina or both?

Did he speak with Dina after Max was injured? How many times did he speak with Dina? with Nina? with Jonah?

Did Dina/Nina/Jonah text him while he was in Coronado?

Did Adam see Max at all on the day(s) he flew to SD?

What was his purpose at Coronado when he spent most of it away from Jonah and at Spreckels mansion instead of at Ronald McDonald House or the hospital?

How much money did Jonah and/or Dina give him after Rebecca's murder? How did he suddenly afford the new house in TN?

Adam answered today that after coming home from dinner with Rebecca and Jonah 7:30-7:45, that he made a couple of phone calls and showered and went to bed.

It sounded like Adam did not see Max before Rebecca died but he inferred that he saw Max afterwards. I confess that it wasn’t very clear frankly.

Today Adam stated that it was his father and Rebecca that discussed with him about coming to Coronado. If I’m not mistaken, he did not have a discussion with Jonah. Several of us just shook our heads at that testimony that he wouldn’t have spoken to Jonah about it.

Adam stated today that he popped the leg back in the table and it worked well enough for standing on it to cut Rebecca down.

 

[cynic]

Trial Day Monday - After Lunch

Not sure if this was streamed and you've all seen it but I didn't see the cameraman there for a part of the afternoon.

The surprise for me - during the defense on the 911 call testimony - was that Adam not only got the knife to cut Rebecca down from the main house (which was unlocked early morning) but he also went through the main house through the front door (which was also unlocked early morning) to go back to the courtyard after retrieving the house address from the street side. What? The main house wasn't locked at any door?? That just doesn't make sense. I know Coronado is very safe but why wouldn't Rebecca lock the doors before retiring for the night. And, with that kind of reasoning, why didn't Nina or DS walk right in when they came by late at night?

Now maybe Adam went out the front door of the main house (thus unlocking it) and then went back into the house after retrieving the address for 911. But something doesn't add up here at all. Smells very fishy.

I also liked Greer asking Adam why he didn't just cut Rebecca down while standing on his tip toes without the use of a table. Well Adam didn't know how many feet Rebecca was off the ground and didn't have any real answers. Keith said "didn't this make a vivid impression on you?". Guess not because Adam couldn't answer.

The two detectives after break, Detective Troy BuGal, basically stated that his role was to do the area canvas and originally was going to do also the evidence marking. As it turns out he only did the area canvassing. There was a lot of talk about recreating the sounds that a neighbor (Mrs. Allison) heard but it wasn't done. The final take was that children had made that noise playing around and that Mrs. Allison's words changed through the interviews. Okay..........

Greer hammered on BuGal on many fronts: Since suicide was found to be the finding by the many detectives involved and you agreed with that finding.... Forensically and logically, did the others tell you about the evidence such as the menstrual blood, did they discuss no fingerprints on the door knobs, the tying up demonstration (saw it on TV), did you vote also for suicide, how many were involved in the vote, etc. Basically Greer denigrated BuGal's participation in the facts because he answered no to all of these. He had a small part in the findings overall.

Most every time that Greer stated these questions (above), the defense objected and the judge overruled. I wish I had counted how many times. Yeah!!!!

Detective Todd Norton on stand. They interviewed JS. He assigned who searched what with Norton searching bottom basement, living room, master bedroom, kitchen, butler pantry.

He also did an Excel spreadsheet on Rebecca's phone indicating the text messages due to the fact they had no forensic tech to download the info.

They spent a lot of time on the rope analysis with this detective on lengths, etc, I must admit it was confusing to me and probably to the jury.

They expect the trial to continue into April - perhaps April 3rd. They believe, though, that they will lose one juror who had a commitment to vacation but they have two backups.

Thank you so much for sharing your observations from the trial proceedings!

 

[justice be served]

It occurs to me that first it was Adam who became a ghost to this case and now it is Jonah that is a phantom. Gosh those Shaknai boys are pretty good at making themselves invisible when it serves them best and works to their narrative of the defense of any wrongdoing. Oh that’s right - one of them is a lawyer!

 

[Lezah]

Illustration ( FAO Cynic)

left trapezius muscle back illustration

https://goo.gl/images/eY2QFo

Cynic, on this illustration the mark referred to is located roughly where the first, top two ‘x’ marks appear in this illustration ( the first appears on the edge of the trapezius at the highest point on the left side, and the one to the right of it).

The mark appears to be an almost vertical mark running along ( and almost ‘over’) the shoulder. It has an uneven edge, it is deep red/ purple, on the photograph. I posted the exhibit number and ROA earlier. I hope that helps. Sorry I can’t figure out the photo posting)

PS - if you raise your right arm up straight, then grasp the ball of your shoulder with your right hand - your thumb should fall into a ‘pocket’, or groove of your shoulder. That’s where the starting point of the mark is on the photo - extending downwards in a vertical direction...

Whoops sorry I meant raise the left arm....apologies

 

[cynic]

Whoops sorry I meant raise the left arm....apologies

Are you referring to the following mark?

 

[IzzyBlanche]

Adam stated today that he popped the leg back in the table and it worked well enough for standing on it to cut Rebecca down.

snipped for focus.

Right. Because most tables have pop-in pop-out legs.

If the jury buys this...I just don't know.

 

[Lezah]

Are you referring to the following mark?

You got it!

 

[Tricia]

Hey Everyone,

Mr. Greer said he is going to call me early in the (Tuesday) morning. Feel free to post more questions.