Wrongful death trial begins. Trial coverage and discussion

[Zinn]

Catching up.

IIRC, original reports were vague in that blood was described as "likely" menstrual blood, footprints were described as matching the size of Rebecca's feet but not as exact footprint matches, maybe same for boot print. Because it was framed as suicide, some things were assumed to match up rather than actually being tested to be sure. Ditto for voicemail, panties in guesthouse garbage, etc.

KZ - IIRC, another family member was autistic but a minor at the time so I'll leave it at that.

As for JS being involved with another woman at the time, perhaps that was typical of him in any relationship. Don't know that it meant he was on his way out of the relationship. Could just be normal for him in any relationship.

As always, JMHO.

 

[MsFacetious]

I wonder if perhaps the discrepancy in Max's reported condition at the time of Becky's death comes from the parents different bonds with him.

Jonah (who doesn't strike me as the type to be attached to anyone really) likely looked at it practically and business like and thought he was gone and there was no chance of recovery.

While Dina, being a Mom would need more time to accept that. Him being stable may have been enough to give her some hope of improvement before the later MRI showing brain death. She just strikes me as the one who had the most bond with her son.

Just a thought.

 

[Seattle1]

Snip...

As for JS being involved with another woman at the time, perhaps that was typical of him in any relationship. Don't know that it meant he was on his way out of the relationship. Could just be normal for him in any relationship.

Zinn - I think you're spot on. SDSO used "diary notes" found in Rebecca's phone as a basis for suicide finding. Strongly agree the latest revelation how RZ ending her relationship for cause (info not ever shared with SDSO or medical examiner) and just revealed in Greer's summary judgement, is to counter upcoming defense expert witness who will testify on the psychology and profile of suicidal.

 

[Seattle1]

I wonder if perhaps the discrepancy in Max's reported condition at the time of Becky's death comes from the parents different bonds with him.

Jonah (who doesn't strike me as the type to be attached to anyone really) likely looked at it practically and business like and thought he was gone and there was no chance of recovery.

While Dina, being a Mom would need more time to accept that. Him being stable may have been enough to give her some hope of improvement before the later MRI showing brain death. She just strikes me as the one who had the most bond with her son.

Just a thought.

I recall earlier discussion crediting Dr Lubber (JS best friend) as knowledgeable party that could have advised JS to prepare for the worse.

 

[Verboten]

Verboten, you're spot on, IMO. For many years, a lot of us have thought that Adam's odd behaviors, inappropriate demeanor, and bizarre retorts and statements are really off the scale of "normal". With the intense interest of both Dina and Jonah in autism causes, and their involvement in so many autism charities and autism therapeutic services, I've long suspected that Adam is on the spectrum. Dina never appeared to be interested in mental health issues or autism until she met Jonah-- she was a medical equipment rep until then.

...

In the big picture, if Adam is, or isn't, on the autism spectrum makes no difference. He is clearly high functioning if he is autistic, such as those with Asperger's Syndrome. He clearly knows the difference between right and wrong.

But almost nothing about his demeanor and interactions is within the range of normal responses, IMO.

Maybe that's why he may have been asked to stay in the guesthouse. Perhaps he's easier to get along with if there is some separation. Maybe Rebecca was uncomfortable around him. Maybe XZ was still there when it was being discussed that Adam would come after Max's fall, and it was seen as a better situation to have him in the guesthouse, since Jonah would be at the hospital a lot. Just speculation.

Interesting. You are correct that nothing about his demeanor and interactions are within the range of normal responses. It's a certainly possibility he's on autism spectrum, though highly functioning. I could see why Rebecca (for her own sake and/or Xena's) might be uncomfortable with him at the main house. I really do wonder about whether that was requested by Becky or someone else...it did seem to be a decision made just that evening, based on the wording I've seen in various articles.

 

[stmarysmead]

If we believe that RZ was truly in love with Jonah...not because of his money or his lifestyle, but because she loved HIM...she could not have been in a more devastating and mortifying position as she was that night.

If her sister and the ex-wife knew that JS had a new girlfriend...one he later married...then RZ knew as well. She was living in that humiliating position, caring for his children who disrespected her, running errands.

Unlike Dina, she would get no spousal support when she left, so she would move from 2 years of the Spreckels Mansion lifestyle to what? Was does it mean...that she was looking to move on...was she looking for a job? What was the understanding between herself and Jonah at that point? Did he spend nights with his new love? Was RZ just around until she could get a job and a new place?

Perhaps we will find out.

Why did a good Christian have to steal when living with an extremely wealthy man? Did he give her money for the things she needed? How did he treat her?

Was she hoping to rekindle the relationship with the man she loved? The “accident” of JS’s son would add a devastating complication. The new girlfriend....one day to be the wife...would carry no burden of that tragedy.

Did JS tell her in their happy days that she “saved him?” Was that a phrase that now seemed, in these new circumstances, to be just romantic spin and therefore a hurtful memory? Was that a heartbroken message to JS...paraphrasing...”you used to say I saved you...now can you save me?”

Of course, if there is definitive proof about it being AS handwriting...then I suppose he’s committing a murder and taunting his brother.

Very confusing.

None of my questions mean RZ was not murdered, and if she was... she deserves justice. But it’s time to discard some of the old mythology that she had no reason to be depressed and kill herself.

Ignoring the truth of her deteriorating and humiliating relationship with JS....does not mean she wasnt murdered. But, her life had to be very stressful and complicated in those days leading up to the child’s accident and her death.

If I were a family member, I’d be furious from that standpoint alone.

 

[Seattle1]

In researching the 911 Call by XZ (not available), I learned Adams 911 call said released by mistake.

So... When did AS get the knife to cut Rebecca down?


[Cynic] This is my transcript of the call:

911 Operator: 911 Emergency, what are you reporting?

AS: Yeah, I got a girl, hung herself in the guest house, over, it's on Ocean Boulevard across from the hotel. Same place you came and got the kid yesterday.

911 Operator: Okay sir, what is the address?

AS: I’m not sure, uh…, 19… on the back house it’s 1928 something, uh, I’m not sure. Let me call you back.

(AS remains on the phone, however)

911 Operator: Okay sir, is she still alive?

AS: I don’t know.

(Various scraping sounds)

(Sound of stick falling?)

AS: S**t.

AS: *advertiser censored**

AS: No.

AS: *advertiser censored***n kid.

AS: Oops.

(8 seconds of silence)

AS: Ah.

911 Operator: Sir, are you there?

AS: Ah, ah, ah, ah…

(Sound of something breaking/snapping)

AS: Ah, are you alive?

AS: No…

AS: Hello… hello.

911 Operator: Yes sir.

AS: Did you get the address?

911 Operator: No sir, I need the address.

AS: I’m doing CPR right now.

AS: You came here yesterday to pick up a little boy.

911 Operator: Okay sir, I wasn't working yesterday. I don't know what you're talking about.

AS: You checked your records?

911 Operator: Sir, I checked all of the records yesterday. I can't find anything on Ocean Boulevard. Can you tell me what the address is?

AS: I'm looking. Just start sending them towards us, towards the hotel.

911 Operator: Okay, I understand that, I just need the exact address, I can’t help you until I have the address.

(AS is heard breathing heavily.)

AS: 1043 Ocean Boulevard.

911 Operator: 1043 Ocean, okay.

911 Operator: Is she still alive?

AS: I don’t think so.

911 Operator: Okay, let me get the fire department, sir, hang on, let me get the fire department on the phone to help you, hang on just a minute.

AS: *advertiser censored**, come on…

Fire/EMS operator: Fire, medical emergency.

911 Operator: Coronado with a transfer, go ahead sir.

Fire/EMS operator: Hi, what’s the emergency?

AS: Got a lady, hung herself.

Fire/EMS operator: What’s the address?

AS: 1043 Ocean Boulevard.

Fire/EMS operator: 1043 Ocean Boulevard?

AS: Yeah.

Fire/EMS operator: Okay, what’s wrong?

AS: She hung herself, man, I just woke up.

Fire/EMS operator: Okay, is this a house?

AS: It’s a house, yeah…

Fire/EMS operator: Okay, how old is she?

AS: She's about 30.

Fire/EMS operator: 30, okay, when's the last time you saw her?

AS: Last night.

Fire/EMS operator: Okay, is she beyond help?

AS: I’m talking to, I’m doing, I’m compressing her chest right now, I’m up to about 20, 30 now.

Fire/EMS operator: What’s your name?

AS: Adam Shacknai.

Fire/EMS operator: Okay, I have help on the way, what’s your cell phone number? Is it 901-485..?

AS: 901-485…

Fire/EMS operator: Okay, listen to me, help is coming right now, okay.

Fire/EMS operator: And PD, you're on the way?

911 Operator: Yes we are.

Fire/EMS operator: Okay, and you’re right there with her, did you cut her down?

AS: Yes I did.

Fire/EMS operator: Okay, just stay with me.
Last edited by cynic; 12-02-2011 at 12:08 AM.

 

[GarAndTeed]

I agree with the previous answer from another attorney, which was basically "it depends" haha. But also, the jury may not realize how many attorneys he has. I assume they aren't all sitting at the counsel table, and the jury may assume some of them are assistants.

Thanks SO much, AZlawyer! Very good point in re: all attorneys not sitting at counsel table...

 

[Peaceful]

http://www.wmcactionnews5.com/story/15091608/memphian-discovers-body-in-brothers-san-diego-mansion

"...Wednesday morning, Shacknai's brother Adam Shacknai, a Memphian, told police he discovered Nalepa's naked body hanging from a balcony with her hands bound behind her back with electrical cord. Adam Shacknai lives in an apartment in Midtown Memphis. His leasing agent neighbor, RS, said he last saw him a few days ago. "He said that he was going to have to go back out on the tugboat company he works for," said Sanders...".

Hmm... was it just a coincidence that by Jan 12, 2012, AS was now a homeowner of a 3BR /3BA Townhome in Central Garden neighborhood? IMO, the posturing and image make-over of AS began before his plane touched ground Memphis.

Wow! I have always tended to think Adams lifestyle improved dramatically after the "murderacide", as I sometimes call this. Thank you for the confirmation.

well interestingly if Jonah was already dating another woman (whom he later married) while still with Rebecca, the whole 'i'll tex my brother that Rebecca is dead" and Jonah not paying for Rebecca's funeral, and a few other things suddenly seem to make more sense.

Yes, JS's immediate acceptance of suicide and response always spoke volumes to me but this makes more sense as to why. I leaned toward my opinion that he is simply a sociopath.

With all of this chatter about the lack of info on AS, how online writings of him have completely disappeared over the years, etc., it reminds me of a prominent local architect who got busted for child *advertiser censored* a few years back. The local newspaper published an article detailing how they had been contacted by a PR firm that explained that they were requesting the newspaper to remove articles from their archives which mentioned the sex offender and the architecture firm in the same article. Apparently, having someone be indicted and convicted of possessing and sharing child *advertiser censored* is bad for business. The newspaper published their article to explain why they would not be removing former articles from their archives, as it is against the values and responsibilities of a good journalist. I am assuming that a similar situation occurred here, except the firm hired by the S's was more successful in getting the information removed that they were wanting to be *gone*.

https://www.news-leader.com/story/n...5/19/watchdog-sorry-rewrite-history/27520619/

There is no doubt in my mind this is why older info is nearly impossible to find. Another thing money can buy. Silence.

I don't believe JS has actually remarried. I heard he was engaged and know they have had new children but I don't know the marriage to be official. Does anyone know for sure?

All jmo.

 

[Peaceful]

RZ and JS relationship...

I read also in the summary judgement that RZ and JS relationship was to all intents and purposes over at the time of her death. JS was apparently already seeing the girl he was later to marry... and RZ was apparently already planning to leave JS...

http://www.wmcactionnews5.com/story/15091608/memphian-discovers-body-in-brothers-san-diego-mansion

"...Wednesday morning, Shacknai's brother Adam Shacknai, a Memphian, told police he discovered Nalepa's naked body hanging from a balcony with her hands bound behind her back with electrical cord. Adam Shacknai lives in an apartment in Midtown Memphis. His leasing agent neighbor, RS, said he last saw him a few days ago. "He said that he was going to have to go back out on the tugboat company he works for," said Sanders...".

Hmm... was it just a coincidence that by Jan 12, 2012, AS was now a homeowner of a 3BR /3BA Townhome in Central Garden neighborhood? IMO, the posturing and image make-over of AS began before his plane touched ground Memphis.

well interestingly if Jonah was already dating another woman (whom he later married) while still with Rebecca, the whole 'i'll tex my brother that Rebecca is dead" and Jonah not paying for Rebecca's funeral, and a few other things suddenly seem to make more sense.

With all of this chatter about the lack of info on AS, how online writings of him have completely disappeared over the years, etc., it reminds me of a prominent local architect who got busted for child *advertiser censored* a few years back. The local newspaper published an article detailing how they had been contacted by a PR firm that explained that they were requesting the newspaper to remove articles from their archives which mentioned the sex offender and the architecture firm in the same article. Apparently, having someone be indicted and convicted of possessing and sharing child *advertiser censored* is bad for business. The newspaper published their article to explain why they would not be removing former articles from their archives, as it is against the values and responsibilities of a good journalist. I am assuming that a similar situation occurred here, except the firm hired by the S's was more successful in getting the information removed that they were wanting to be *gone*.

https://www.news-leader.com/story/n...5/19/watchdog-sorry-rewrite-history/27520619/

Ok. I read Cynic’s attachment to the rebuttal by Greer to Adam’s summary judgment. In it, Rebecca’s sister Mary and Jonah’s ex-wife Dina’s depos apparently had stated Jonah was dating some other woman than Rebecca and that woman later married Jonah.

I am very surprised at this info since neither Mary nor Dina had alluded to it on Dr. Phil show or any other news commentary.

I admit I am very shocked at this.

I am not surprised this wasn't mentioned. I think EVERYONE involved, including Dr. Phil, were extremely hesitant to mention JS's name for fear of lawsuit. Or worse... imo.

 

[Peaceful]

It sounds to me they were both at the end of their ropes (no pun intended) with each other. I believe Rebecca was devastated that Max, who we have heard she was very close to, was injured but I can only hope she didn't blame herself for something she had no control over.

I have never heard it said that either DS or RN knew of Jonah's second relationship at the time of Rebecca's death. Do you have a link to that info? It is my thought that came to light after Rebecca's death. I also have no reason to think Rebecca was actively looking to leave at the time of her death. There are indications she was unhappy but no indications she was making actual plans to leave. At least not that I know of. Please provide a link if you have one.

The incident you are referring to about the shoplifting happened before Rebecca lived with Jonah.

 

[coastal]

A few years back I found this doing a search. It is a digital archive from the Memphis Public Library. Adam was at one time interested in theater.

[FONT=&]Dig Memphis is the digital archive of the Memphis Public Library. Showcasing many of the treasures found in the Memphis and Shelby County Room.

[/FONT]https://memphislibrary.contentdm.oclc.org/digital/search/searchterm/Adam Shacknai

Great find, *Lash*! I wonder if AS's interest in theater included creative writing and set design?

 

[stmarysmead]

It sounds to me they were both at the end of their ropes (no pun intended) with each other. I believe Rebecca was devastated that Max, who we have heard she was very close to, was injured but I can only hope she didn't blame herself for something she had no control over.

I have never heard it said that either DS or RN knew of Jonah's second relationship at the time of Rebecca's death. Do you have a link to that info? It is my thought that came to light after Rebecca's death. I also have no reason to think Rebecca was actively looking to leave at the time of her death. There are indications she was unhappy but no indications she was making actual plans to leave. At least not that I know of. Please provide a link if you have one.

The incident you are referring to about the shoplifting happened before Rebecca lived with Jonah.

From Lash’s post:

Case No. 37-2013-00075418-CU-PO-CTL
PLAINTIFF’S MEMORANDUM OF POINTS AND AUTHORITIES IN OPPOSITION OF DEFENDANT ADAM SHACKNAI’S MOTION FOR SUMMARY JUDGMENT, OR IN THE ALTERNATIVE, MOTION FOR SUMMARY ADJUDICATION
ARGUMENT

4. Rebecca was not given bad news that evening.
Dr. Lucas states in his report that: “despite no history of depression, the decedent was found the morning after she apparently learned that her boyfriend’s son - who was under her care when his fall occurred two days prior - would likely not survive.” (Erins Decl. Ex. G, Lucas Report at pg. 3). However, the tests that had been performed on six-year-old Max Shacknai prior to Rebecca’s death showed that he was not getting any worse, and in fact there was slight improvement in his condition. (Greer Decl. Ex. M, Medical Records pg. 505). Dina Shacknai, Max’s mother, was at the hospital with Max from the afternoon of July 12th through midmorning on July 13th, and testified that the doctors confirmed to her on the evening of July 12th that cautious optimism was still appropriate regarding Max, and they would not know if there was any change in his condition until tests were performed the following day. (Greer Decl. Ex. G, Dina Shacknai Depo. at 102:17-19). Thus, there is substantial evidence refuting the existence of the single fact that the Sheriff’s Department and Dr. Lucas relied upon in opining that Rebecca had a motivation for suicide, i.e., that prior to her death she was told Max was going to die.

It should also be noted that the emotional bond between Jonah Shacknai and Rebecca hadalready deteriorated by the time she was murdered to the point where she was considering leaving him and he was already dating the woman he would eventually marry. (Greer Decl., Ex. I, Mary Zahau- Loehner Depo. at pgs. 62:24-63:24; Ex. G, Dina Shacknai Depo. at 154:20-155:22). This information, which tends to undermine the perception that Rebecca and Jonah were still madly in love and the injury to Max was therefore so painful Rebecca was compelled to end her life, was not shared with the Sheriffs Department or the Medical Examiner.

 

[bourne]

I am not surprised this wasn't mentioned. I think EVERYONE involved, including Dr. Phil, were extremely hesitant to mention JS's name for fear of lawsuit. Or worse... imo.

No one had to mention Jonah’s name. All they had to say was Rebecca and her bf at the time were breaking up. Yet NO ONE made mention of this most important fact.

Suicide rulings were made by authorities based on assumption that Rebecca was madly in love with Jonah and wanted to marry him so desperately in fact that Dina claimed Rebecca was a golddigger after Jonahs money and therefore was devastated when Jonah made that “you’re outta here” phonecall that night and that made Rebecca commit suicide.

So yes this is new news to me. That Jonah and Rebecca’s relationship was on the falling outs and he was already dating another woman.

 

[Pi2016]

Am I the only one who is now viewing this forum in a completely different format?

 

[Seattle1]

Thanks SO much, AZlawyer! Very good point in re: all attorneys not sitting at counsel table...

In the UT podcast of day-1 of trial, the reporter actually commented on a team of lawyers in the court room for AS compared to RZ family represented by only Greer. Perhaps it won't be lost on the jury!

 

[bourne]

In the trial today we watched an almost two hour deposition from Dina Shacknai. She mentioned AS was a ‘writer’. Apparently he was often sending examples of his writing to Dina, who said, in her opinion’ he was very good’. She said he wrote in the style of Augusten Burroughs ( in fact she used the example of ‘running with scissors’ as an indication of the type of genre)

It made me think immediately of writing ...in the third person...

Wow. This sounds like Adam and Dina had good communication and mutual fondness for theatrics and literature . It would make sense then that Dina might have been the one who called Adam to spreckels mansion to help win whatever Dina needed him to do under the pretext of checking up onMax.

I think this breaks the case wide open as
to why Adam who is estranged from Jonah would suddenly appear in Coronado and stayed over at mansion that night with Rebecca...

 

[coastal]

I recall earlier discussion crediting Dr Lubber (JS best friend) as knowledgeable party that could have advised JS to prepare for the worse.

Yes, and reportedly Dr. Luber was with Jonah when Rebecca and Adam met them at the hospital for dinner. So even if neither of Max's parents were able to comprehend the gravity of Max's condition yet, and Rebecca would follow Jonah's lead, Adam, one step removed from it all, understood.

 

[nanwv]

"Jonah Shacknai and Rebecca had already deteriorated by the time she was murdered to the point where she was considering leaving him and he was already dating the woman he would eventually marry."

Totally new news.

Maybe someone with a less biased opinion than myself can explain to me if the above is correct, why Rebecca would vacation with a cheating boyfriend who is close to getting dumped himself, and his disrespectful older kids, agressive ex-wife down the street and creepy brother in the guest house. Resort hotels are really cheap during the summer months in Phoenix - a staycation sounds alot more appealing than this Coronado vacation.

 

[NotAtAll]

It sounds to me they were both at the end of their ropes (no pun intended) with each other. I believe Rebecca was devastated that Max, who we have heard she was very close to, was injured but I can only hope she didn't blame herself for something she had no control over.

I have never heard it said that either DS or RN knew of Jonah's second relationship at the time of Rebecca's death. Do you have a link to that info? It is my thought that came to light after Rebecca's death. I also have no reason to think Rebecca was actively looking to leave at the time of her death. There are indications she was unhappy but no indications she was making actual plans to leave. At least not that I know of. Please provide a link if you have one.

The incident you are referring to about the shoplifting happened before Rebecca lived with Jonah.

I obviously can't say if RZ was actively looking to leave JS at the time of her death but I read that her sister Mary said she was growing tired of the way JS's teenaged children treated her and therefore, she was considering telling JS by the end of summer that she needed some time to herself.

Here's a link to the article:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sa...ep/14/citylights2-rebecca-zahau/?amp&page=all

P.S. The article is called "The True Heart of Rebecca Zahau" and its in The San Diego Reader.com in case the link doesn't work 😉