Found Deceased WY - Gabrielle ‘Gabby’ Petito, 22, Grand Teton National Park, 25 Aug 2021 #63

[LietKynes]

According to my ex, it was always my fault. Mental and emotional violence as well as physical violence takes it’s toll. After he apologized, bought flowers or sexy lingerie, he demanded and forced sex. Horrible IPV.

So sorry you endured that, @BeanieBod !

 

[Chrissy1958]

But how can anyone make a judgement without seeing the information?

I don’t want to get into this further. But since you asked me, I believe I have enough information to form the opinion that I did. MOO That is why they are called opinions

 

[Claire182]

If BL and GP camped at the spot that she died, did he then after killing her pack up the tent and any other camping equipment? IMO this would be so cold and callous, he didn’t want to leave the camping gear but he could leave gabby. MOO

 

[jjonez]

is it a common thing for a coroner to do? Thank you for answering, I am a little amazed that this is a thing....regardless of all the media and emails he must have had, our Coronial teams and our Coroner would never be permitted to be so public.

Nothing about this case is common

 

[BeanieBod]

So sorry you endured that, @BeanieBod !

Thank you. Fortunately, I was able to leave. I have a good man now.

 

[lxmx]

This is the first i've seen about "hiking shoes next to her body"
MOO Maybe they were in the tent sleeping/whatever, he strangles Gabby and then drags her out of the tent. But why take everything else and leave her shoes?

I had not seen this before. Interesting how it says her remains were above ground but covered.

TETON COUNTY, Wyoming (WJW) – One day after the Teton County coronerrevealed that Gabby Petito died by strangulation, a former prosecutor is offering insight on what the scene revealed.

According to KSL-TV, video from their helicopter showed remains above the ground but covered.

Gabby Petito crime scene and cause of death

 

[imstilla.grandma]

If Brian is alive, he ran to his childhood seeking comfort. First mom and dad, then where? Didn’t he grow up in NY? If he’s alive, he’s somewhere familiar that helps him feel warm and safe. Where did the go to family vacation? Somewhere up yonder in the NY forestry? imo

 

[NuttMegg]

I didn’t see the media report so thank you for sharing that. I wonder what his motivation was in being there if he didn’t provide any new information. Puzzling to me.

Because much of the interested public does not have the time to watch afternoon Pressers?

 

[Gardenista]

The KSL report said she was covered with something that looked like a blanket

Wyoming coroner: Gabby Petito's cause of death was strangulation

 

[TheGardener]

Mom of 4, if my child committed murder I would hire the best defense atty out there, negotiate their surrender, negotiate the best plea available. I would not actively shield/hide them. I would answer phone calls/contact the worried family, not remain silent at the expense of the possible safety of another person.

What a reasonable, decent person you are.

 

[10ofRods]

The KSL report said she was covered with something that looked like a blanket

Wyoming coroner: Gabby Petito's cause of death was strangulation

Hmmm. I was watching the feed and I thought so too, but they quickly cut away - the pilot would have seen more.

 

[justaparent]

Their reticence is unfortunate but i do not fault them because:
1) they have a right to remain silent
2) presumption of innocence, which is being violated left and right
3) I go to 930 mass every Sunday with my family - and I can tell ya right now I would do the exact same thing as CL & RL if it were my kid -- I don't believe anyone with children would say otherwise

Just curious. Does that mean you would not have talked with Gabby’s family initially, when they were trying to find out where she might be? If you knew her van was sitting in your driveway?

They have a right to remain silent but showed absolutely no compassion to Gabby’s family before their son was named a POI. It says a lot about their character, or lack of.

MOO

 

[chupacabra]

As yet, no one has been arrested for breaking any law. Making the parents uncomfortable isn't illegal. Not saying I agree with all that commotion going on outside their house. I wouldn't do it myself. They have an opportunity every single minute of the day to do something different to help change public perception. If the law is broken by the people outside, that is different. That isn't a "general public" issue at that point, its an issue for LE to handle.

I don't think it's a good development where online gawkers and social media influencers are using this kind of tragedy to either bolster their following or pass the time. The harassment of family members (not to mention neighbors) by a bunch of people who knew nothing of this individual a month ago is not justice, it's not activism, it's vacationing for people obsessed with true crime entertainment. The people out there acting like fools have no idea what the FBI or police have told these people, and are doing nothing more than satisfying their own weird desire to be part of a sad story they have no role in.

 

[MollyDDD]

Dead

Alive!

 

[citizen_sleuth]

Good afternoon everyone!

Now that we know the cause of death was manual strangulation, I wanted to add some additional information about what could happen next. Hang on, this is going to be a long (but hopefully informative) post.

DISCLAIMER: I am not a lawyer or forensic pathologist, nor do I claim to know exactly how the autopsy was conducted in this case. These are my own opinions.

Determination of manual strangulation
Upon receiving the body of a victim who died by strangulation, it is up to the coroner to determine the method of strangulation used. Autopsies in all three forms of strangulation––ligature, manual, and hanging––commonly reveal hemorrhages in the soft tissue of the neck as well as fractures of the hyoid bone and/or the thyroid cartilage, all of which can be used to reconstruct the method used and the sequence of events which transpired (Gascho et al. 85). Petechial bleeding (i.e., subcutaneous bleeding in the eyelids) is also typical in all three types of strangulation (Deininger-Czermak et al. 99). Interestingly, the presence of lymph node hemorrhage is a distinct diagnostic sign indicating manual strangulation as the manner of death as it is not present in cases of hanging (Yen et al. 509).

Given that all three types of strangulation share so many commonalities, additional examination in the form of postmortem CT and MRI scans are frequently used to more accurately determine the manner of death, which is what happened in Gabby's case. In conjunction with the standard autopsy measures, Gabby's autopsy consisted of a whole-body CT scan as well as examinations by both a forensic pathologist and forensic anthropologist. Postmortem CT scans are used to detect pathologies, injuries, fractures, and foreign bodies while postmortem MRI scans are employed to get a more detailed look at soft tissue lesions such as bruises (Gascho et al. 85). The fact that the Teton County Coroner undertook a postmortem CT rather than an MRI suggests to me that the autopsy revealed a fracture(s) in her neck which conclusively suggested manual strangulation, since MRIs are usually relied upon in suspicious cases (Deininger-Czermak et al. 102).

Possible physical evidence implicating Brian
Unfortunately, despite the up-close-and-personal nature of manual strangulation, evidence such as hand marks and fingerprints are difficult to match and are generally inconclusive in the absence of distinctive physical abnormalities (Kristensen, Lynnerup, & Sejrsen 383). Additionally, in 55.9% of fatal manual or ligature strangulation cases the associated violence is insufficient to produce forensic evidence aside from a mildly disturbed scene (Cartwright 297)

Although it is possible Brian's DNA was found on Gabby's neck, due to the fickle nature of DNA evidence and the conditions in which her body was left it is unlikely his DNA will be recovered. DNA transferred from the offender to the victim and vice versa can be recovered and amplified for at least 10 days after the contact, but conclusive identification is usually hindered by the presence of secondary/tertiary DNA profiles (Rutty 170). In addition to the offender's DNA being transferred to the victim's neck during manual strangulation, the offender's DNA and third party (or more) DNA from direct contact and/or contact with an object is also deposited, making it next to impossible to obtain conclusive results (Rutty 172). For example, one experimental study found that during a simulated assault, 23% of neck areas swabbed showed nondonor alleles and 5% showed six or more nondonor alleles (Graham and Rutty 1077).

If Brian strangled Gabby in the past, there is a possibility that her body "recorded" that history of domestic violence. Increased mobility of one side of the hyoid bone without associated hemorrhage visible to the naked eye points to a prior strangulation incident which can be confirmed by using microscopy to identify the healing fracture (Davison and Williams 310). The discovery of such a fracture would help establish a pattern of abusive behavior beyond the Moab traffic stop.

The legal case against Brian
Yesterday on this thread there was some debate over whether or not manual strangulation is prima facie evidence of premeditation, but unfortunately there isn't a clear-cut answer to this. As part of their murder statutes, 29 states, the District of Columbia, and the federal government all employ a premeditation or deliberation formula (Ferzan 84).

In 1994, the Court of Appeal in San Francisco held that while manual strangulation may demonstrate deliberation, "there is nothing about it that inherently demonstrates premeditation" and reduced the first-degree murder conviction of a man convicted of strangling his girlfriend. In another instance of a domestic violence-related fatal strangling of 32-year-old Pennsylvania woman, a judge rejected the prosecution's plea for a first-degree murder
conviction and reduced it to third-degree despite noting that the strangulation pointed to premeditation.

On the other hand, courts have previously recognized that premeditation does not have a time constraint, and have held that even seemingly instantaneous decisions can be classified as premeditated. In the West Virginia case of State v. Schrader, the victim was suddenly stabbed fifty-one times by the defendant following an argument in the gun shop over the authenticity of a German sword. The trial judge informed the jury that "to constitute a willful, deliberate, and premeditated killing, it is not necessary that the intention to kill should exist for any set length of time prior to the actual killing" (Pauley 151-2). The defendant appealed his conviction on the grounds that his crime did not qualify as premeditated, but the West Virginia Supreme Court of Appeals affirmed the conviction on the grounds that "the mental process necessary to constitute 'willful, deliberate, and premeditated' murder can be accomplished. . . in the proverbial 'twinkling of an eye.'"

When it comes to federal law, serious theoretical differences exist within each circuit as to what is considered premeditation (Oberlander 1213). The Federal Sentencing Guidelines established with the passage of the Sentencing Reform Act of 1984 create a "base offense level" which serves as the applicable, legally-binding guideline for a particular offense that acts as the basis for subsequent calculations, but this does not come into play until sentencing (Anderson, Kling, and Stith 279). For a federal felony-murder conviction, codified in 18 U.S.C. § 1111, the government must prove the death of another person and a culpable mens rea ("malice aforethought") for the death were elements of the offense, something which could be difficult in Brian Laundrie's case barring additional evidence such as phone records (Noyes 536).

Sources
Anderson, James M., Jeffrey R. Kling, and Kate Stith. "Measuring Interjudge Sentencing Disparity: Before and After the Federal Sentencing Guidelines." Journal of Law and Economics 42, no. S1 (1999): 271-308

Carmichael, Heather, Ethan Jamison, Kirk A. Bol, Robert McIntyre Jr, and Catherine G. Velopulos. "Premeditated versus “passionate”: patterns of homicide related to intimate partner violence." Journal of Surgical Research 230 (2018): 87-93.

Cartwright, A. J. "Degrees of Violence and Blood Spattering associated with Manual and Ligature Strangulation: a retrospective study." Medicine, Science and the Law 35, no. 4 (1995): 294-302.

Craig, John. "Man faces murder charges for death: Victim's family thinks she was raped, killing was planned." Spokesman-Review [Spokane], 5 March 2004, pg. B4.

"DA blasts ruling on killing." San Francisco Examiner, 21 October 1994, pg. P-8.

Davison, Andrew M., and E. John Williams. "Microscopic evidence of previous trauma to the hyoid bone in a homicide involving pressure to the neck." Forensic Science, Medicine, and Pathology 8, no. 3 (2012): 307-311.

Deininger-Czermak, Eva, Jakob Heimer, Carlo Tappero, Michael J. Thali, and Dominic Gascho. "Postmortem Magnetic Resonance Imaging and Postmortem Computed Tomography in Ligature and Manual Strangulation." American Journal of Forensic Medicine and Pathology 41, no. 2 (2020): 97-103. [WARNING: Graphic images]

Ferzan, Kimberly Kessler. "Plotting Premeditation's Demise." Law and Contemporary Problems 75, no. 2 (2012): 83-108.

Gascho, Dominic, Jakob Heimer, Carlo Tappero, and Sarah Schaerli. "Relevant findings on postmortem CT and postmortem MRI in hanging, ligature strangulation and manual strangulation and their additional value compared to autopsy–a systematic review." Forensic Science, Medicine and Pathology 15, no. 1 (2019): 84-92.

Graham, Eleanor Alison May, and Guy Nathan Rutty. "Investigation into “Normal” Background DNA on Adult Necks: Implications for DNA Profiling of Manual Strangulation Victims." Journal of Forensic Sciences 53, no. 5 (2008): 1074-1082.

Hathaway, Ivan J. "Prosecutors to seek death penalty for killer." Tampa Tribune, 30 March 1989, pg. 1-P.

Kristensen, Mie E., Niels Lynnerup, and Birgitte Sejrsen. "Comparison of Handmarks in Manual Strangulation: An Experimental Study." Journal of Forensic Sciences 51, no. 2 (2006): 381-385.

Malloy, Daniel. "Boyfriend found guilty of third-degree murder." Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, 17 June 2009, pgs. B-1, B-2. [part 1] [part 2]

Mooney, Michael G. "Judge orders Mouser to trial: Bail reduced by half for accused murderer." Modesto Bee, 20 February 1998, pgs. A-1, A-14. [part 1] [part 2]

Noyes, Henry S. "Felony-Murder Doctrine Through the Looking Glass." Indiana Law Review 69, no. 2 (1994): 533-579.

Oberlander, Sharon L. "Departing the Heartland: Should Premeditation Serve as the Basis for Departure from the Federal Sentencing Guidelines for Second-Degree Murder?." Boston University Law Review 78 (1998): 1211-1234.

Pauley, Matthew A. "Murder by Premeditation." American Criminal Law Review 36, no. 2 (1999): 145-169.

Rutty, G. N. "An investigation into the transference and survivability of human DNA following simulated manual strangulation with consideration of the problem of third party contamination." International Journal of Legal Medicine 116, no. 3 (2002): 170-173.

Yen, Kathrin, Michael J. Thali, Emin Aghayev, Christian Jackowski, Wolf Schweitzer, Chris Boesch, Peter Vock, Richard Dirnhofer, and Martin Sonnenschein. "Strangulation Signs: Initial Correlation of MRI, MSCT, and Forensic Neck Findings." Journal of Magnetic Resonance Imaging 22, no. 4 (2005): 501-510.

 

[Bordeaux]

Can anyone explain what “thumbs up” strangulation is relative to:
Is is application of pressure to the carotid arteries, obstructing blood flow?
Or the actual crushing of the windpipe obstructing airflow?

 

[Soliloquy]

If BL and GP camped at the spot that she died, did he then after killing her pack up the tent and any other camping equipment? IMO this would be so cold and callous, he didn’t want to leave the camping gear but he could leave gabby. MOO

Maybe packing up the tent and other equipment was exactly what he was doing in the back of the van when the door closes during the Red, White, & Bethune video, before leaving the vicinity on foot to create the alibi. MOO

 

[Chrissy1958]

Because much of the interested public does not have the time to watch afternoon Pressers?

I did watch the presser but did not see the media report. Only read about it online. Just puzzled by why it The appearance on CNN was even necessary. MOO

 

[sjinnj]

If Brian is alive, he ran to his childhood seeking comfort. First mom and dad, then where? Didn’t he grow up in NY? If he’s alive, he’s somewhere familiar that helps him feel warm and safe. Where did the go to family vacation? Somewhere up yonder in the NY forestry? imo

It's been unseasonably warm in the NYC area for this time of year. Night time temps have still been in the high 50s. Looks like by this weekend the area will get into the 40s at night and that wouldn't be too comfortable to be out at night.

 

[Love Never Fails]

Ppl in a rage don't stop what they are doing untill its to late or someone or something stops them!!!! It's not anger!!!

Wanna tell me what rage consists of if not anger? Not arguing here. But anger and madness and rage are certainly symptoms of his self loathing. I would say anger was a huge part of being able to do that to someone you are in a relationship with. Maybe not even anger at her but anger at himself. MOO.