2010.09.27 - Issues with JVM discussing bombshell developments in Haleigh Case

[oceanblueeyes]

Ron had a legal right to own firearms.

He was not a convicted felon before this current conviction.

I am not aware of any laws perventing others from owning vintage guns. Gun collectors often collect vintage firearms.

I am also not sure if any weapons have to be registered in Florida.

If one is purchased from a gun shop then a background check is done but it it is bought from an individual owner it isn't.

I know here in Georgia we do not have to register our guns. Handguns or long guns. We do have to go through background checks if we purchase from a gun shop/dealer.

IMO

 

[OneLostGrl]

BBM.

ITA, the drug bust proves that LE does not view Ron as just the grieving father. Ron's plea deal confirms (at least to me) that he has substantial knowledge. Plea deals don't come cheap. I think anyone can conclude that Ron has had this valuable information for some time now, and only gave it up when he needed to save himself. That (and the fact that he married Misty) tells me all I need to know about Ron's involvement.

Bold is mine-

Cheaper than trials. Much cheaper.

 

[Concerned Papa]

I completely agree with OBE on the plea deal. In my opinion people are making way too big of a deal about this meaning Ron knows something, was holding something back or is saving his .

LE knows more than we do. You can guarantee they have verified all those phone calls, confirmed sightings of Ron at work and interviewed other employees as to his demeanor that night. Even had they not viewed Ron as a suspect, they generally would have done the ground work to RULE him out in the beginning.

Knowing what they know (LE) and knowing that eventually this case will be tried LE and Prosecutors would want to guarantee that Ron would cooperate with them in the future possibly against his ex-wife. They are throwing him in jail - they are going to want to have some sort of olive branch to ensure that when they build a case against whomever perpetrated this crime they can use all the evidence they have gathered and are aware of.

Yes, we can assume Ron would have given his help anyway - it's his daughter. But LE and the Prosection can secure his assistance with a plea deal and Ron would be an idiot to turn it down.

Again I respect everyone's right to theorize but we have to be careful not to theorize blindly or on gut reaction. LE has at their disposal far more information than we do and althought I am sure they do make mistakes, we should assume those mistakes are minimal and glean from their actions what direction we think they are taking.

LE and the Prosecutors offered a plea deal - because they believe someone else is responsible and they want to build the strongest case possible against that person.

BBM

Even his own attorney, Terry Shoemaker, stated how strong the State’s trafficking case against Ronald Cummings actually was:

"Everyone in the world has seen the [undercover] videos," Shoemaker said. "It's kind of hard. It's a great case for the state."

http://www.gainesville.com/article/20100513/ARTICLES/100519729

With the strength of the evidence in the drug trafficking charges, the prosecution did not drop two solid felony charges with 50 years worth of minimum mandatory sentencing requirements because Ronald Cummings simply repeated "No I didn’t have nothing to do with my child being missing". These charges were dropped because Mr Cummings had been leveraged by LE into a position that he, finally, had little choice but to tell the truth about his knowledge of what happened to his daughter.

Cummings has cut off interviews with investigators.

“Besides ‘No I didn’t have nothing to do with my child being missing,’ what do you say?” he asked.

Maj. Gary Bowling, director of law enforcement for the department, said detectives would like to interview Cummings again but have been resisted.

http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2009-08-09/story/haleighs_family_remains_divided_6_months_later

The State did not whack 50 years off his sentence for rehashed old information. Even Shoemaker has told us he “offered”, not “re-offered” a LOT of valuable information:

Shoemaker said Cummings spoke with investigators and "offered a lot of valuable information."

http://www.palatkadailynews.com/articles/2010/09/25/news/news01.txt

I have no idea what this valuable information actually was, no one does outside of Law Enforcement, but he didn’t get this deal until he told whatever it was he had previously refused to say.

This is no “blind theory” nor is it a “gut reaction”. It is an acceptance of what the provided links have told us.

 

[justus4all]

I agree Ron's alibi is flawed and there is lots of possibilities.

IIRC Shoemaker said that Ron worked an 8 hour shift and left early, getting to work 45 mins before his shift was due to start. We also are told that Ron worked 3 hours overtime finishing at 3am?

To me, the math just does not compute. If Ron's normal end time was Midnight then how does his start time allow for an 8-hour shift? Also, if he worked overtime how/when did he let Misty know so that she did not freak out?

We also have the nature of PDM and if the statements are true about Ron babysitting the kids there in the past and sneaking out then the alibi is shaky, very shaky. He has a lot of flexibility in how/when he works.

Add to that the statement that Ron was working out in the yard that night and most of the yard is dark, extensive, no cameras and, no/little supervision.

What raises my Hinky Meter is that Ron (via Shoemaker) was in work 45 mins early (who does that?) and worked 3 hours overtime. To me this is a stretch, a stretch to extend the timeline to cover as much time as he possibly could before it was time to stop by the convenience store and come home to make the 911 call.

Maybe you can have your cake and eat it but .... for Ron to claim he picked up HaLeigh from school, went directly to work (45 mins early), worked overtime (3 hours), stopped by the convenience store and, arrived home to call 911 at ~3:27 is toooooooooo convenient.

Ron is such a lucky guy that the whole time in question, from picking a live HaLeigh from school to calling 911 is covered by being 'at werk'. Sure ... he has a rock solid alibi.

I don't think so.

I agree with you on Ron's alibi.....You said it very well!!!...I have long thought that there was an opportunity for Ron to not be accounted for/seen/heard/......at that work site...for all the excess phone activity..as well

That being said....As others here are suggesting as well, Haleigh could have met her demise ..between the time she got off the school bus and until the time Ron went to work....

IF Ron DID WANT to be SEEN..arriving at work EARLY..and DID WANT TO BE SEEN leaving LATE and DID WANT TO BE SEEN at a convenience store...after his shift...due to establishing an alibi..for from the time Haleigh met her demise...until the cover up was all completed...that would have been the way to do it.....and I am only saying ..IF..IMO...

That way...Ron COULD say....I was at work....But what about the accounts of the hours....BEFORE Ron went to work...That is what the LE wants to VERIFY...IMO...

all in my own opinion

 

[cyberborg]

Thanks Concerned Papa ... I wonder if that is why Misty is reported to be on 'suicide watch' in jail? She is sweating what info Ron has given since he got a plea deal and is sentenced (lightly).

Ron obviously offered something of value or LE want Misty to think he did. To get back on topic of the thread ... this development caused Misty to sweat it and for Chelsea to come out of the woodwork and talk to the media to try to save Misty.

If Misty does not come clean before sentencing then the only conclusion is that she'd rather gamble with the sentence she will get for drugs than face murder charges or the label of being a child killer in prison.

If this was as simple as an OD with Ron's stash or even mistakenly administered then I would expect a confession versus hitting HaLeigh with a board or something.

Like Casey Anthony who walked all the way to the end of the corridor at Universal before admitting she lied and followed the same path towards the DP ... Misty's time is running out where she can save herself and if she doesn't .................

 

[Searchfortruth]

Bold is mine-

Cheaper than trials. Much cheaper.

Yes, the state does save on a plea deal. I was referring to the information the defendant has to turn over for that deal...should have made that clearer...

 

[suspicious1]

It may not count Suspicious1. If they have uncovered evidence that makes what they first thought incorrect then of course that would be eliminated and replaced with what they have been able to determine after that time in the ongoing investigation. Investigations are always a process of elimination and gaining new information. What they may have thought at first may change completely. This is just plain commonsense to me. No case stays the same as when it is first unfolding. Things they thought at first they will rule them out later on as more evidence becomes known to them. That is just SOP.

I really don't think that was the purpose to get "these people" behind bars. If that were the case they wouldn't have included the other two. All 5 were guilty on the drug charges and that is why they were arrested, charged and guilty.

I don't guarantee anything about a case where the police have not divulged the evidence. I can only speculate and certain not say I guarantee anything but imoo if further arrests are made beyond Misty and Tommy it may be Joe Overstreet.

DA's don't give sweetheart deals like they did Ron if they think they are involved in an unsolved homicide imo.

IMO

In the post that you are referring to, my comments were based on what has been said out of the mouths of Teresa and GMSykes....not hearsay or rumor...nothing to do with LE....or evidence changing...

So the reason you think that the drug bust was not about Misty and Ron, is because Hope and Donna got arrested too?:waitasec:....IMO, in an undercover drug bust there is always a main target....now if there are others, outside of the main target, who are caught doing something illegal in the process...was LE suppose to just let them go? Of course not. that's a no brainer.

 

[1Chump]

I do not believe Haleigh got into any pills on her own.

However, the comment about immediately spitting them out because they taste bitter is not true. The only way you can "taste" them is to chew them than allow them to start dissolving. I checked both my oxy and vicodin after I heard TN's comments because I had never noticed any taste.

I think Chelsea does not know what really happened and is just repeating storeis she is told.

Just wanted to clarify..I don't chew my pain meds. I did it that time trying to figure out where TN got the idea that oxycontin tasted bitter.

TN specifically stated oxxycontin. For those who are not familiar with oxycontin, the pills are smaller than a kernal of corn and kind of look like that.

My issue with Haleigh taking one on her own is how would they know? She would most likely just pass out so they would think she was sleeping. I just do not think any of these people would check to see if Haleigh was really sleeping until they needed to wake her up.

If she vomited, the pill would be in the vomit, so no reason not to take her to ER. At the point of vomiting, she would still be alive. I would think it would be easier to get rid of the "evidence" of the pill than Haleigh.

So the only other choice would be they gave her something to sleep. Same problem with that. If they gave it to her to sleep, I do not see them checking on her until they wantedt to wake her up.

I still think Ron went to work 45 minutes to have an alibi. That does not leave much time for Haleigh to OD and them notice before he set up his alibi.

IMO, whatever happened, they could not take Haleigh to ER because there was no way to hide the injury. I still think that Haleigh ended up in the middle of Ron's anger at Misty and was fatally injured.

 

[1Chump]

In the post that you are referring to, my comments were based on what has been said out of the mouths of Teresa and GMSykes....not hearsay or rumor...nothing to do with LE....or evidence changing...

So the reason you think that the drug bust was not about Misty and Ron, is because Hope and Donna got arrested too?:waitasec:....IMO, in an undercover drug bust there is always a main target....now if there are others, outside of the main target, who are caught doing something illegal in the process...was LE suppose to just let them go? Of course not. that's a no brainer.

The bust went down when Ron and Misty were in the car together. That pretty much told us who were the main targets of the bust.

 

[dodie20]

Ron had a legal right to own firearms.

He was not a convicted felon before this current conviction.

I am not aware of any laws perventing others from owning vintage guns. Gun collectors often collect vintage firearms.

I am also not sure if any weapons have to be registered in Florida.

If one is purchased from a gun shop then a background check is done but it it is bought from an individual owner it isn't.

I know here in Georgia we do not have to register our guns. Handguns or long guns. We do have to go through background checks if we purchase from a gun shop/dealer.

IMO

You have a right to your opinion, but the whole gun issue is what I hold the most against Ron. What kind of dad lets his teen gf sleep with a gun under her pillow? while he's gone? Could Misty even use a gun? I doubt she ever took a shooting or gun safety class. & does a dad really need a machine gun in his house? in the same house with his drugs? What kind of dad sticks a gun in his mouth...in front of his kids? & after lying for so long, Ron finally admitted to the fight over a gun...& I don't even know which gun. So, Ron, the dad, had drugs & guns & teens & fights, & kids, all in the same house. & even if Ron kept his guns unloaded & locked up, (but I seriously doubt it), & legally owned & registered every one of them, he was still wrong for exposing his kids to that lifestyle. If my husband owned a machine gun & kept it unloaded, pulled apart, & stored in the attic, I still wouldn't be able to sleep a wink, worrying about that thing & my 8 year old daughter. a machine gun? WTH was he thinking? & I don't see Ron, a guy who couldn't even hold down a job, (besides drug dealing), as a vintage anything collector. He just likes guns.

 

[cyberborg]

In the post that you are referring to, my comments were based on what has been said out of the mouths of Teresa and GMSykes....not hearsay or rumor...nothing to do with LE....or evidence changing...

So the reason you think that the drug bust was not about Misty and Ron, is because Hope and Donna got arrested too?:waitasec:....IMO, in an undercover drug bust there is always a main target....now if there are others, outside of the main target, who are caught doing something illegal in the process...was LE suppose to just let them go? Of course not. that's a no brainer.

I agree that the focus of the drug bust was to leverage it to break open the HaLeigh case, squeezing Misty, Ron and, Tommy as targets. LE could not get reasonable cooperation from Ron and so they just forced things to get his attention.

LE waited patiently until Misty became 18 years old and they all foolishly played into LE's hands. Wham! Stupid is .....

LE ensured that sufficient amounts of drugs were bought/sold to give them leverage on both the minimum charges as well as bonds/bail to keep them in jail as a captive audience and break them.

What backfired is/was Misty's commitment to Ron. They knew Ron would play smart but didn't consider Misty would hold out so long. Tommy crumbled first but he is/was a distraction with his JO story. Ron was next to crack and deal.

LE had to resort to a plea deal with Ron, both to scare Misty as well as strengthen their case. Misty is second guessing what Ron has done.

If Ron is the perp then he has set Misty up to take the fall unless she confesses and provides details that implicate Ron. Ron wins because he took the deal first, maybe because Misty is only going to dig herself into an even deeper hole if she speaks up now?

Misty's bluff has been called but she needs to back any new story up or ... put up and shut up.

IMO.

 

[Concerned Papa]

Something just might be UP! Tommy has been brought back to St Johns County:

CROSLIN, HANK THOMAS (W / MALE)
Status: In Jail Inmate Number: SJSO10MNI002272
Booking No: SJSO10JBN004618
Booking Date: 09/29/2010 14:26:30
Age On Booking Date: 24
Bond Amount: $0.00
CELL Assigned:
Facility: SJSO
Address Given: 116 TYLER ST SATSUMSA FL 32189

CHARGES
STATUTE CASENO CHARGE DEGREE LEVEL BOND
901.04 OUT-OF-COUNTY WARRANT N N $0.00
901.04

http://www.sjso.org/inmate_search_warrants.aspx

 

[cyberborg]

On the subject of Chelsea on JVM ... if there was any truth to the ToC and JO story then why wasn't Misty telling Chelsea to get on the media and sell it? Why was Chelsea floating the OD story and Ron's involvement ... due to Misty's infatuation?

If Chelsea wants the truth to come out and to try to save Misty, implicating Ron then this further demonstrates that the ToC and JO story is fake.

 

[dodie20]

It may not count Suspicious1. If they have uncovered evidence that makes what they first thought incorrect then of course that would be eliminated and replaced with what they have been able to determine after that time in the ongoing investigation. Investigations are always a process of elimination and gaining new information. What they may have thought at first may change completely. This is just plain commonsense to me. No case stays the same as when it is first unfolding. Things they thought at first they will rule them out later on as more evidence becomes known to them. That is just SOP.

I really don't think that was the purpose to get "these people" behind bars. If that were the case they wouldn't have included the other two. All 5 were guilty on the drug charges and that is why they were arrested, charged and guilty.

I don't guarantee anything about a case where the police have not divulged the evidence. I can only speculate and certain not say I guarantee anything but imoo if further arrests are made beyond Misty and Tommy it may be Joe Overstreet.

DA's don't give sweetheart deals like they did Ron if they think they are involved in an unsolved homicide imo.

IMO

actually, DA's do give sweetheart deals in these man mins...that's the law. If someone has information that helps solve another case, then he is rewarded a deal in the man min. Ron talking, is no secret. It's been stated more than once, even at Ron's hearing. But, I'm assuming that LE doesn't think Ron is the killer...more like a coverer & a hinderer. & IMO, his deal wasn't so sweet. If he had shared this info with LE a lot sooner, I doubt he would've been targeted in the bust. just Misty & Tommy out doing their brother/sister thing. & I'm not so sure that Hope & Donna weren't targeted . Hope seems unusually close to her cousin, so who knows what LE thought she might know, & after Ron's information comes to light, we might hear more from her. & Donna Brock did go undercover & spent a lot of time befriending Misty. Maybe her being targeted was LE, leaving no stone unturned. I would think there are other people that were involved with this group, but LE has left them alone...unlike WBG, Hank & Lisa, & probably some more.

 

[dodie20]

Something just might be UP! Tommy has been brought back to St Johns County:

CROSLIN, HANK THOMAS (W / MALE)
Status: In Jail Inmate Number: SJSO10MNI002272
Booking No: SJSO10JBN004618
Booking Date: 09/29/2010 14:26:30
Age On Booking Date: 24
Bond Amount: $0.00
CELL Assigned:
Facility: SJSO
Address Given: 116 TYLER ST SATSUMSA FL 32189

CHARGES
STATUTE CASENO CHARGE DEGREE LEVEL BOND
901.04 OUT-OF-COUNTY WARRANT N N $0.00
901.04

http://www.sjso.org/inmate_search_warrants.aspx

so, it looks like the wheels of justice are turning. I wonder what he has to say.

 

[cyberborg]

so, it looks like the wheels of justice are turning. I wonder what he has to say.

Maybe to grill him further based on Ron's testimony or ... validate what Misty has recently said?

 

[oceanblueeyes]

In the post that you are referring to, my comments were based on what has been said out of the mouths of Teresa and GMSykes....not hearsay or rumor...nothing to do with LE....or evidence changing...

So the reason you think that the drug bust was not about Misty and Ron, is because Hope and Donna got arrested too?:waitasec:....IMO, in an undercover drug bust there is always a main target....now if there are others, outside of the main target, who are caught doing something illegal in the process...was LE suppose to just let them go? Of course not. that's a no brainer.

LE is to do exactly what they did. Arrest all parties involved.

I agree it is a no brainer. They would all do time for their own illegal activities and all of them are going to do just that.

IMO

 

[dodie20]

Maybe to grill him further based on Ron's testimony or ... validate what Misty has recently said?

probably both. It looks like Joe didn't do IT, so are they giving him a chance to look at the inconsistencies? 1 last chance to blame Misty, if she's guilty? I think Ron's & Misty's stories are meshing, so he'd better have something to back up his claims. If he sticks with Joe, Oh Boy, is he in trouble.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Does anyone know/heard..IF Misty is ..STILL on suicide watch???

This seems to have now...gone on the "down low"..

Perhaps the LE is keeping a lid on this...for good reasons

thanks

Levi said he heard that rumor but I read another article somewhere that said Misty wasnt suicidal but she became so overwrought with emotions the last time she was interrogated and told them about Tommy that they took her to the infirmary. I guess as a precaution or to see that she got medication to settle her nerves.

I think we are getting closer to the truth than ever before. Now Tommy is being brought back so I suspect he will be in the hot seat next and LE will be telling him he better fess up because Misty has finally spilled the true beans on him.

IMO

 

[SmoothOperator]

Thank you for your nice post.

I am not of the same opinion that Ron has to have any direct knowledge involving the perpetrators who harmed Haleigh or about those who participated afterward. Imo Ron will be called to testify because he knows all the potential suspects and will layout a time line of what happened that day before the 911 call was made.

If Joe is involved Ron will testify that he had just met him through Misty a couple of weeks prior and will tell if there was any friction between him and Joe before Haleigh went missing.

They will use his testimony to show the lies Misty and Tommy may have told him after Haleigh went missing.

In almost every case I can remember concerning a child the parent where the child lived is called to testify on how things transpired and what was later told to them by the perpetrators if the perpetrators turnout to be someone they knew.

A DA must layout his case succinctly so that the jury will be able to understand what happened and when.

So I just don't see anything nefarious about his testimony or him having to have direct knowledge. It just wouldn't make much sense to the jury if Ron didn't testify about him being at work and trying to call Misty with no answer and what happened that night and other days when she may have said something that the DA feels now were cover up lies in order to protect herself and her kin.

He also has to testify to making the calls when his cell phone records are introduced. Many reasons why the DA needs his testimony and none of them have anything to do with having direct knowledge of the murder of his daughter, imo.

IMO

A cheer for you!!

I agree 100% and add to your post this one other detail[that of course is jmo]....

I see it as the info that was given wasn't sat on or hidden but rather that early in the case was not known to be relevant or important... Meaning that only after LE gleaning the partial truths from Tommy and Misty in these past 9 mos and carefully putting all of the puzzle pieces together, only then did LE realize that particular days or specific hours of particular days or events that were once seen as irrelevant that occurred in the days leading "up to the actual crime" were of great importance... Therefor going back to Ron and questioning about these specific days and events and thus making this info told by Ron EXTREMELY IMPORTANT AND VALUABLE TO SOLVING HALEIGH'S CASE... jmo but is a different way to look at it and imo is quite possible...