A New Look at Intruder Theories

[Ames]

Why would you think the paintbrush was broken at both ends, SD?

Sorry to chime in here...but, Holdon, you were the one that said that it was broken at both ends. I had never heard that before...

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Sorry to chime in here...but, Holdon, you were the one that said that it was broken at both ends. I had never heard that before...

"The wood in the garrote used to strangle JonBenet Ramsey is from a long-handled artist's paintbrush, The Denver Post learned Thursday.

An autopsy photograph shows cord wrapped seven times around the paintbrush handle, which is spotted with royal blue and black paint. Investigators have checked the paint on the handle against paint found in the Ramsey home. The piece of wood was about 4 1/2 inches long and broken on both ends, according to final portions of the autopsy report released this week."

 

[Ames]

"The wood in the garrote used to strangle JonBenet Ramsey is from a long-handled artist's paintbrush, The Denver Post learned Thursday.

An autopsy photograph shows cord wrapped seven times around the paintbrush handle, which is spotted with royal blue and black paint. Investigators have checked the paint on the handle against paint found in the Ramsey home. The piece of wood was about 4 1/2 inches long and broken on both ends, according to final portions of the autopsy report released this week."

Duhhh...sorry Holdon, its getting late here. I wasn't sure which paintbrush you were talking about. I know that one is believed to have been broken and inserted, and I know that piece is missing.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Duhhh...sorry Holdon, its getting late here. I wasn't sure which paintbrush you were talking about. I know that one is believed to have been broken and inserted, and I know that piece is missing.

OK any RDI, please explain why the (one and only) paintbrush was broken at both ends (was there another paintbrush, Ames??)

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Duhhh...sorry Holdon, its getting late here. I wasn't sure which paintbrush you were talking about. I know that one is believed to have been broken and inserted, and I know that piece is missing.

I'm not familiar with any evidence that suggested the paintbrush was used for anything except the garrote. Feel free to use that evidence to support your claims.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Yeah, I know that. But the pointed end was broken off, so that might account for the shards. I can't say about the bristle end one way or another.

But let's try this: let's assume, for the moment, that it was completely intact at first. The brush was very likely used to stage sexual assault (per Werner Spitz and CASKU), so using it and breaking off the pointed end to dispose of it later would make sense, RDI-wise. But the bristle end is even simpler. Let me lay this illustration on you. To jab, the person would have to grip it far enough down the handle to get it in far enough (I'm going to hell for this!). Grabbing the bristles would be too unwieldy for that, and leaving the bristle end on would not allow the proper grip. So, you eliminate it.

Fair enough?

Have you any facts to support your claims that the paintbrush was used for anything besides the garrote?

 

[BBB167893]

Have you any facts to support your claims that the paintbrush was used for anything besides the garrote?

Yes, I do. Material from the brush was found inside JonBenet, per the autopsy report. Dr. David Jones, among others, believed it was used to penetrate her. There's more, but this is a good place to start.

Incidentally, why is that important to you? I mean, what is the significance to you if it was used for something besides the garrote vs. if it wasn't?

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Yes, I do. Material from the brush was found inside JonBenet, per the autopsy report. Dr. David Jones, among others, believed it was used to penetrate her. There's more, but this is a good place to start.

Incidentally, why is that important to you? I mean, what is the significance to you if it was used for something besides the garrote vs. if it wasn't?

I think RDI sensationalizes wherever possible, and doesn't even look at the most basic reasons. If there was material found, then it could be by assault or by secondary transfer.

The most basic but less sensational reason for breaking both ends off beforehand is to have a garrote that could not be grabbed by the victim, and could be used to assault or threaten the victim. The shards in the paint tote support the idea that both ends were broken off before the assault on JBR, since it is believed the paintbrush originated in that paint tote.

JBR threatened with a broken paintbrush end doesn't occur in RDI theories. Only sensasional claims occur. RDI couldn't care less if the paintbrush is broken at one end, both ends, or neither end. IDI, on the other hand, can easily consider that the paintbrush was broken at both ends to threaten JBR and prevent her from grabbing the paintbrush.

 

[UKGuy]

I think RDI sensationalizes wherever possible, and doesn't even look at the most basic reasons. If there was material found, then it could be by assault or by secondary transfer.

The most basic but less sensational reason for breaking both ends off beforehand is to have a garrote that could not be grabbed by the victim, and could be used to assault or threaten the victim. The shards in the paint tote support the idea that both ends were broken off before the assault on JBR, since it is believed the paintbrush originated in that paint tote.

JBR threatened with a broken paintbrush end doesn't occur in RDI theories. Only sensasional claims occur. RDI couldn't care less if the paintbrush is broken at one end, both ends, or neither end. IDI, on the other hand, can easily consider that the paintbrush was broken at both ends to threaten JBR and prevent her from grabbing the paintbrush.

Holdontoyourhat,

I think RDI sensationalizes wherever possible,

Have you checked out Lou Smit's sensasional Intruder Theory regarding a psychopathic pedophile indulging himself in Erotic Asphyxia fantasies with JonBenet?

or neither end. IDI, on the other hand, can easily consider that the paintbrush was broken at both ends to threaten JBR and prevent her from grabbing the paintbrush.

The paintbrush was broken because it is too long to twist horizontally down to the base of JonBenet's neck without her skull or posture preventing rotation.

Next please?


.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

The paintbrush was broken because it is too long to twist horizontally down to the base of JonBenet's neck without her skull or posture preventing rotation.

Next please?


.

Uh, good try and thanks for the answer. But if that were the case, why pick an object that was too long in the first place? Weren't they in a hurry, and if so, why not grab a shorter object? Most households are full of them.

I do think you're right, it allows rotation. I think I'm right too, it allows either end to be used as a weapon. And this is where IDI differs from RDI, in that RDI never considered the ends of the paintbrush to be a weapon that was used to threaten JBR.

RDI only needed to spin the garrote handle down to her neck. Any shorter household item would do that without the need to break it. An intruder, otoh, needs a weapon to keep JBR silent or from pulling at her restraints. I believe the broken wood with sharp ends served as a combination weapon, allowing the cord to be twisted and allowing the ends to be used to threaten JBR.

While some posters believe the handle was used to insert, I think the small amount of wood found is more likely from secondary transfer. If it were the former, probably JBR's DNA would be on the handle and it wasn't, at least its not been reported.

 

[Ames]

I'm not familiar with any evidence that suggested the paintbrush was used for anything except the garrote. Feel free to use that evidence to support your claims.

A paintbrush handle is what was believed to have been inserted into her, and that piece is missing.

 

[LI_Mom]

A paintbrush handle is what was believed to have been inserted into her, and that piece is missing.

So many things could have been thrown into the golf club bag that was in the basement.

The evidence might have walked right out the front door with Pam.

 

[Eulalie]

I'd ask how many of us would voluntarily leave over 1500 characters written by our own hand at a capital crime scene?

Be honest now.

And yet evidently you claim that that's exactly what an intruder did.

 

[coloradokares]

How do you know the R's keep their typewriter in the attic?

How do you know a 1996 home PC needed a login? Most didn't.

Why not scissors and a book? Thats the best option, because everybody's got scissors and they could've left them and the book out, just like the sharpie.

RDI can't answer that one without making up stories or supposing to know where everything is and isn't in the R's house..

Yes they all did You were not on windows yet. DUH!

 

[coloradokares]

I'd ask how many of us would voluntarily leave over 1500 characters written by our own hand at a capital crime scene?

Be honest now.[/quotte}

Well what were they going to do call up Mr. Barnhill and ask hit to do dictation

 

[coloradokares]

Yeah, I know that. But the pointed end was broken off, so that might account for the shards. I can't say about the bristle end one way or another.

But let's try this: let's assume, for the moment, that it was completely intact at first. The brush was very likely used to stage sexual assault (per Werner Spitz and CASKU), so using it and breaking off the pointed end to dispose of it later would make sense, RDI-wise. But the bristle end is even simpler. Let me lay this illustration on you. To jab, the person would have to grip it far enough down the handle to get it in far enough (I'm going to hell for this!). Grabbing the bristles would be too unwieldy for that, and leaving the bristle end on would not allow the proper grip. So, you eliminate it.

Fair enough?

No you are not going to hell for this. Some may or may not but you are not going for loving a little girl enough to reason out how she was murdered.

 

[BBB167893]

I think RDI sensationalizes wherever possible, and doesn't even look at the most basic reasons. If there was material found, then it could be by assault or by secondary transfer.

You asked. If you want to get into transfer, that's fine.

The most basic but less sensational reason for breaking both ends off beforehand is to have a garrote that could not be grabbed by the victim, and could be used to assault or threaten the victim. The shards in the paint tote support the idea that both ends were broken off before the assault on JBR, since it is believed the paintbrush originated in that paint tote.

I don't see how the shards say before or after one way or the other. And your idea doesn't make much sense. One, she couldn't have grabbed it anyway, since she'd been knocked into next week. Two, they supposedly had a stun gun. Three, they had Burke's knife. What more did they need?

JBR threatened with a broken paintbrush end doesn't occur in RDI theories.

For good reason, I might add.

Only sensasional claims occur.

As UKGuy was so good to point out, IDI claims are even more outlandish.

RDI couldn't care less if the paintbrush is broken at one end, both ends, or neither end.

Pretty much.

IDI, on the other hand, can easily consider that the paintbrush was broken at both ends to threaten JBR and prevent her from grabbing the paintbrush.

Since the brush was so far up the cord, she couldn't have reached it anyway. Besides, she was strangled from behind. How could she have reached from there?

 

[BBB167893]

No you are not going to hell for this. Some may or may not but you are not going for loving a little girl enough to reason out how she was murdered.

Thanks, ck. Good to see you.

Just to explain myself, I probably shouldn't have phrased it like that, but the position I sometimes get put in due to this case is just horrible. I don't blame Holdon or anyone else. It's just one of those things: when you try to get into people's heads, sometimes you come out feeling like no amount of soap in the world will get you clean again.

 

[coloradokares]

Thanks, ck. Good to see you.

Just to explain myself, I probably shouldn't have phrased it like that, but the position I sometimes get put in due to this case is just horrible. I don't blame Holdon or anyone else. It's just one of those things: when you try to get into people's heads, sometimes you come out feeling like no amount of soap in the world will get you clean again.

Oh I do know that feeling. But remember the only role you play is finding her killer. That is a Hero from where I am standing.

 

[BBB167893]

Oh I do know that feeling. But remember the only role you play is finding her killer. That is a Hero from where I am standing.

I'm much obliged to you.