Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #201

[Arkay]

Earlier post of mine, adjusted with permission from Tricia:


There have been opinions that so far, no one has been excluded by that hair, other than that the hair does not belong to RA.

Kelsi dropped them off and they were alive. We have proof with the photos on the bridge. She did not return to get them because Libby’s dad was supposed to pick them up. He’s a a male, hence excluded.

Are any female relatives captured on video telling the girls to go down the hill? Did any eyewitness claim to have seen any of those relatives on the bridge? No and no.

Has the behavior of Becky Patty and/or Kelsi German over the past seven years shown any signs of suspicion? Or have they instead devoted the last seven years to pursuing every avenue of Justice, and to keeping the memory of Abby and Libby alive? Have they cooperated with LE in every way they’ve been asked, including providing DNA samples? Yes and yes.

Is there any evidence in this case, direct or circumstantial, that points to one of Libby’s female relatives being the murderer?

IMO this is not only ludicrous but also impugns two of the people who adored the girls with all their hearts and souls. People who would give anything to have Abby and Libby alive and well, now in their early 20s.

Just my opinion but I assume the insinuations are extraordinarily painful to the families.

 

[Vern]

If the search warrant was in Oct 2022 before RA was arrested wouldn’t that be when they got the gun to test it against? It’s an actual question not an opinion - ty in advance.

The poster that you've quoted was responding to an allegation made by the OP that the bullet was not even tested until 2023.

 

[SouthEnd]

Their conclusion looks a little different from yours, though.

“The results of this study add to the ever increasing body of empirical data that firearms examiners conduct comparisons with a high level of accuracy.”

Saying that the results are dependent on the abilities of the person testing btw - isn't that true for every test? If someone enters data wrong for dna analysis, or isn't very capable in interpreting, wouldn't that also be a factor? Everything is dependent on human error, and that's why they call experts to analyse the data.

All MOO

 

[MassGuy]

Earlier post of mine, adjusted with permission from Tricia:


There have been opinions that so far, no one has been excluded by that hair, other than that the hair does not belong to RA.

Kelsi dropped them off and they were alive. We have proof with the photos on the bridge. She did not return to get them because Libby’s dad was supposed to pick them up. He’s a a male, hence excluded.

Are any female relatives captured on video telling the girls to go down the hill? Did any eyewitness claim to have seen any of those relatives on the bridge? No and no.

Has the behavior of Becky Patty and/or Kelsi German over the past seven years shown any signs of suspicion? Or have they instead devoted the last seven years to pursuing every avenue of Justice, and to keeping the memory of Abby and Libby alive? Have they cooperated with LE in every way they’ve been asked, including providing DNA samples? Yes and yes.

Is there any evidence in this case, direct or circumstantial, that points to one of Libby’s female relatives being the murderer?

IMO this is not only ludicrous but also impugns two of the people who adored the girls with all their hearts and souls. People who would give anything to have Abby and Libby alive and well, now in their early 20s.

Just my opinion but I assume the insinuations are extraordinarily painful to the families.

I think the point isn’t just that the hair belongs to the killer, but that the investigation was sloppy in that it wasn’t tested (I firmly believe it was). It’s a point the defense has to keep making, even if it’s not true.

Like I said yesterday, that’s why they ask questions they know a particular witness can’t answer. No sooner did I say that, did we get the information that the witness didn’t know if a rape kit was performed.

Which for the crowd that views every part of the investigation as flawed (regardless of common sense and evidence of that), meant that testing was not performed.

We of course learned today that not only was it performed, but also the identity of the medical examiner who performed it.

 

[Colinnew]

I'm not making conclusions; I'm waiting until I hear from the specific toolmark analyst in this trial. I am only pointing out the statistics here because the 1% error rate you note is (1) misleading, because that statistic is for a cartridge, not a unfired round; (2) the study and the numbers associated with it come from a pool of "a total of 173 qualified forensic firearms examiners made 8640 comparisons" and not the entirely of comparisons ever made; and (3) "Each examiner has an individual error probability" and "the majority of errors were made by a limited number of examiners."

Statistics can be misleading.

It is definitely good evidence and has been used many times in cases. Of course anyone can turn anything and spin it.

I think they have their man!

Just my opinion

 

[girlhasnoname]

The amount of things one perpetrator had to have done in the amount of time he had will always astound me, just getting the two girls down the hill to the spot he needed to get them to cross the river took time, as they wouldn't have any idea where he was directing them too (and over time I think the "down the hill" comment may be a product of LE enhancing the words on the recording and if we watched the video as is we may not dicipher any words) and he would have had to keep directing them to where he wanted them to go.
Then everything else that was done, I will always struggle with the time unless the perpetrator talks and explains in detail how it was done and RA could be that perpetrator, I am at present on the fence about him when pre trial I was a little surer.

Getting Abby & Libby DTH with a gun pointed at them would have taken a couple of moments at most, they were already near the end of the bridge. RA could control Abby & Libby because he had the power over them, they were just children terrified out of their minds. This started at approx 2:13 pm.

It appears that he may have tried to molest them before crossing the creek, but was interrupted by something or someone. They might have been already undressed or partially undressed and RA had to force them across the creek to the area that is more out of sight. Which would explain why Libby's clothes shirt, underwear and one shoe were found in the creek (dropped).

RA=BG=Killer wasn't seen again until SC saw him walking on Old County Road N300 at 3:50 pm looking muddy and bloody.
That is plenty of time for RA to have accomplished this. Set a timer for 90 minutes, it really is quite a while.

Nobody, no witnesses or anyone at the MHB or Freedom Trails that day ever saw Libby and Abby again coming back from crossing the bridge. Nor did they see RA=BG in the area again either. That's because nobody left from the location he forced them to until RA snuck back to his car after being alerted by Libby's dad calling and texting her for pick up.

JMO

 

[MassGuy]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1848752109744783838

 

[BUF]

First update for this morning is on WISHTV

Delphi Murders trial: Day 4 live blog

Day 4 of the Delphi Murders trial will take place at the Carroll County courthouse on Tuesday. Follow our live blog for the latest updates.

wishtv.com

 

[PrairieWind]

I would doubt it, and almost no one hunts with that round.

Do we know if recreational shooting is allowed in the area? Who owns that property?

 

[MassGuy]

A problem I’m seeing in the comments section of tweets, is that people are confused by the make of the bullet.

So a .40 caliber round is also known as a .40 S&W which stands for Smith & Wesson, who developed it with Winchester.

Now, prosecutors would be better off simply saying .40 round, instead of adding the Smith and Wesson part. That’s because lots of manufacturers make that round.

So going back and forth between .40 caliber Smith and Wesson and Winchester, isn’t helpful.

 

[BUF]

Olehy told the jury that the pieces of evidence were put in storage on Feb. 14, and he completed sealing and recording them on the 16th. He was also present on the Feb. 15 autopsy. The jury viewed an autopsy picture of Abby, seen wearing a pink shirt under a black sweatshirt. Olehy explained where blood and wet spots were on the clothing. The clothes were still wet at the time of the autopsy. The question of if Abby’s clothes were wet or not has been highly contested, according to Russell.
…….
Russell says that Rozzi and Olehy entered a “tense” back-and-forth about the public taking photos of the crime scene, prompting Luttrell to object to questions on crime scene integrity. When asked about the sticks found near and on the girls’ bodies, Olehy said they “appeared to be placed there by an individual” to “conceal” them. Olehy continued, adding that the sticks weren’t tested, he wasn’t aware of any effort to take shoe impressions, and said there was no effort to lift fingerprints at the scene because “there were no good surfaces.”

Delphi Murders trial: Day 4 live blog

Day 4 of the Delphi Murders trial will take place at the Carroll County courthouse on Tuesday. Follow our live blog for the latest updates.

wishtv.com

 

[MassGuy]

Jurors had 4 questions:

Was the undergrowth disturbed under Abby to suggest she was dressed there? CSI had no indication

When evidence is tested at the lab, how was it tested and resealed?
CSI- Resealed and initialed, same container.

Is it common practice to change gloves when collecting different pieces of evidence?
CSI - Absolutely

Was the bullet collected in an envelope or a pillbox?
CSI - Envelope

What identifies when evidence has been opened?

CSI- Specific mark and seal and sign.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1848756137371246984

 

[ClearAhead]

I think the point isn’t just that the hair belongs to the killer, but that the investigation was sloppy in that it wasn’t tested (I firmly believe it was). It’s a point the defense has to keep making, even if it’s not true.

Like I said yesterday, that’s why they ask questions they know a particular witness can’t answer. No sooner did I say that, did we get the information that the witness didn’t know if a rape kit was performed.

Which for the crowd that views every part of the investigation as flawed (regardless of common sense and evidence of that), meant that testing was not performed.

We of course learned today that not only was it performed, but also the identity of the medical examiner who performed it.

I also notice the D strategy assumes people believe only a small group of bohunk police officers were called and arrived to process the murder scene but nobody knew what they were supposed to be doing.

Instead we are learning it was a coordinated group of officers working together as a highly functional team, each with very specific roles and responsibilities.

JMO

 

[m00c0w]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1848752109744783838

View attachment 539692

Another theory debunked. Sounds like there is a scientifically-backed timeframe in which the deaths occurred, but not a specific time of death. As many folks here suspected when “omg no time of death” became the narrative after the 3 day hearings.

JMO

 

[cbeagle]

If the jury has questions for a witness, who actually asks them, judge, prosecutor, jury foreperson?

 

[Yemelyan]

If the jury has questions for a witness, who actually asks them, judge, prosecutor, jury foreperson?

In other trials I've seen where it was allowed, the jury members hand questions to the bailiff, the judge reads them privately and determines if appropriate to be asked, often with input from prosecutor and defense, and then the judge asks the questions of the witness and instructs the witness to answer if they know or if they can.

 

[Vaderman]

If the jury has questions for a witness, who actually asks them, judge, prosecutor, jury foreperson?

According to the Murder Sheet, the judge asks the jury if they have questions, anyone who has written a question will pass it to the bailiff (? not 100% on that part), the attorneys and judge side bar to determine if the question may be asked, and then the judge will ask the question of the witness.

 

[Betty P]

I would really be surprised if he didn’t have alcohol in his system at the time. We’ll never know unless he confessed to that, but it would explain his lack of inhibition when committing this crime.

This was insanely high risk.

It would explain a lot, especially what appeared to be his impulse to confess. Didn't he also have a "nervous breakdown" shortly after the murders that required inpatient treatment?

For some of these creeps, their nightmarish fantasy lives turn to reality, over time, with careful planning - BTK, Rex Heuermann, Ted Bundy. Apparently there are some who harbor these fantasies, but don't act on them unless they're impaired.

 

[m00c0w]

If the chain of custody was broken there’d be proof of that by missing or suspicious entries in the CofC Log. That’s not even being alleged by the D, obviously because there’s no proof it occurred.

The only reason the bullet is a contentious issue to RA’s defense team is because the bullet strongly implies RA’s guilt. JMO

Not only that, this evidence was being collected by ISP. It appears it was stored by ISP, with ISP based on the different forms of paperwork we’ve seen come out. If someone tampered with the evidence, they would have to pull it out of ISP storage, somehow escape signing the check-out log (not to mention explain to the evidence custodian why they even need it to begin with), open the seal, either sign chain of custody or forge a signature on the new seal, put it back in ISP storage without signing it back in and no one asking questions about how/why it wasn’t signed out.

It gets to be a pretty ridiculous theory at the level this evidence was dealt with, which means that either the bullet was planted beforehand by someone that knew there was someone on the trails with a Sig Sauer P226 chambered in .40 S&W… or it’s actually evidence left by the perpetrator.

If I were a juror, I’m pretty sure I’d go with the explanation that doesn’t involve a massive conspiracy perpetrated by people so far removed from Delphi it makes zero sense why they would put their careers and freedom on the line to frame poor Rick.

JMO

 

[Deleted member 39678]

I'm not making conclusions; I'm waiting until I hear from the specific toolmark analyst in this trial. I am only pointing out the statistics here because the 1% error rate you note is (1) misleading, because that statistic is for a cartridge, not a unfired round; (2) the study and the numbers associated with it come from a pool of "a total of 173 qualified forensic firearms examiners made 8640 comparisons" and not the entirely of comparisons ever made; and (3) "Each examiner has an individual error probability" and "the majority of errors were made by a limited number of examiners."

Statistics can be misleading.

I think you are trying to say in (1) that a fired cartridge case has another point for comparison when compared to an unfired round. The firing pin leaves a mark on the primer in the fired case and the unfired one does not. JMO.