Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #204

[Bbgiraffe]

If it was day 1 of this investigation and we had learned that the group of kids saw BG. A man saw the group of kids, but didn't see BG. The kids said they saw no one else on the trail but BG. It was these kids, a woman, the victims and BG on the trail that day at that time frame. That's it.

That same man who saw the group of kids and they saw him then calls in and says he was there in the same time frame. Reports seeing group of kids, no one else.

Wouldn't everyone under the sun be connecting these dots and saying this man is the man the kids saw. This man is BG?

NOW years later and miles of conspiracy theories down the road, what makes more sense is a huge conspiracy or incompetent law enforcement who apparently literally investigated no one for 5 years then picked a name out of the pile of tips and said he did it? That does not make sense to me. Whatsoever.

 

[Megnut]

The man whose cartridge was found between the slayed bodies of two little girls, which matched a gun found at his bedside 5 years later, didn't probably want LE at his house nor to be at the police station because he wouldn't want to be trapped. You know, like victims on a bridge. He wanted a way out. MOO

One has a lot of latitude in a populated setting, he could drive away. He could walk away.

Something he made sure his victims couldn't do.

And now we're seeing that LE recovered that cartridge early, got it off for DNA analysis and then ballistics testing within days of the crime. The Defense knew that too. And they've known it it for a very long time.

JMO

 

[Toodles5000]

I thought the same thing. According to their website, there are 2 Carhartt stores and 20 authorized retailers.

I live in Indiana - I believe there are many more than 2 that sell Carhartt from what I have seen around.

ETA link: https://www.carhartt.com/store-finder/find?query=indiana

 

[TTF14]

Thanks for the info! I was confused about this - I am aware there is research for and against bullet marks... This idea that they used a test bullet and fired it and it matched the UNFIRED had "several marks in agreement" doesn't cut it for me quite. Ugh. Thanks. MOOO

I agree. I'm hoping there are some jurors who are knowledgeable in firearms.

As always, JMO.

 

[TTF14]

I was thinking about this last night -I wouldn't want to have LE come to my home either in a small town where two kids were murdered close to my home!! Especially not if everyone knows everyone, or they arrived in cop cars and or in uniform!! No way! Mooooo.

I agree. Maybe if you lived in a rural area with no neighbors, but not if you have neighbors who may be Nosey Nellies! I'm a pretty private person, though.

As always, JMO.

 

[photographer4]

The man whose cartridge was found between the slayed bodies of two little girls, which matched a gun found at his bedside 5 years later, didn't probably want LE at his house nor to be at the police station because he wouldn't want to be trapped. You know, like victims on a bridge. He wanted a way out. MOO

One has a lot of latitude in a populated setting, he could drive away. He could walk away.

Something he made sure his victims couldn't do.

And now we're seeing that LE recovered that cartridge early, got it off for DNA analysis and then ballistics testing within days of the crime. The Defense knew that too. And they've known it it for a very long time.

JMO

I thought if a person was not under arrest, they could leave the police station / have police leave their home (in the absence of a warrant to search or arrest)? mooo

 

[Web_Sleuth]

I thought the same thing. According to their website, there are 2 Carhartt stores and 20 authorized retailers.

ETA link: https://www.carhartt.com/store-finder/find?query=indiana

And of course shopping online adds a whole other element - though could be more easily tracked due to not paying cash and online accounts.

 

[photographer4]

And of course shopping online adds a whole other element - though could be more easily tracked due to not paying cash and online accounts.

To me it really does not matter when or where RA got a blue jacket - since the one LE found in his home did not have anything that connected him to the crime or the kids. Even if they could prove he had a dozen of them - if they can't find them or they find them but none have DNA evidence of the crime -they're all useless to LE imo

 

[Web_Sleuth]

So…a question for those of you more familiar with these types of guns. What sort of things would cause a round to be ejected accidentally and possibly unnoticed by the carrier? Would dropping a gin that’s ready to be fired have the ability to eject the ammo? My thinking was it would have been locked in and would have to be physically ejected a specific way.

 

[iamshadow21]

To me it really does not matter when or where RA got a blue jacket - since the one LE found in his home did not have anything that connected him to the crime or the kids. Even if they could prove he had a dozen of them - if they can't find them or they find them but none have DNA evidence of the crime -they're all useless to LE imo

Well, they do show he wears that style of clothing, both because that is in his wardrobe, but also by his own admission of what he was wearing that day.

 

[Web_Sleuth]

To me it really does not matter when or where RA got a blue jacket - since the one LE found in his home did not have anything that connected him to the crime or the kids. Even if they could prove he had a dozen of them - if they can't find them or they find them but none have DNA evidence of the crime -they're all useless to LE imo

I agree, but have to admit it might be suspicious if it was repurchased within a week or so or the murders. I was really just replying to a previous posters question.

 

[EllaMinnowP]

This thing about him going to the grocery store is brand new to me. It was originally reported as Allen declining to meet at his house, and declining to meet at the police station. They settled in the grocery store.

I’ll try to find it, but I definitely did read it from MSM link posted yesterday. It said something like: as Dulin was testifying about where the meeting was to take place and Richard Allen, deciding on the grocery store, Richard Allen was writing a note to Baldwin, which Baldwin passed to Rozzi. When cross exam came around, Dulin was asked if RA had told him that he was on the way to the grocery store if Dulin wanted to meet him there. And Dulin agreed.

This is just my recollection of an article I read. I will go hunting for it.

Here’s a link that alludes to what I read yesterday. It is NOT the one I remember from yesterday, though. The one from yesterday described RA ‘vehemently’ - (I believe was the word used) writing the note which he passed to Baldwin, who passed it to Rozzi. The article I am trying to find also did not have all the misspelling as this one. For now though, here’s something:

Sheriff admits Richard Allen doesn’t match witness descriptions of ‘bridge guy’ | Day 6 of Delphi murders trial

Seven years after Libby German and Abby Williams were killed, the trial continues for the man accused of murdering them.

www.21alivenews.com

10:39 a.m. - Brad Rozzi conducted the cross examination on Dan Dulan.

Rozzi said, “He (Allen) came forward, right?”

Dulan said, “Yes.”

Rozzi said, “He told you he was on his way to the grocery store?”

Dulan said he didn’t remember, but that was possible.

***& for the record I may be misremembering that Dulin agreed when asked if that was the way it went down. Maybe he did only say possibly. So frustrating when I can’t find exactly what I am looking for.

 

[WildHuncher]

So…a question for those of you more familiar with these types of guns. What sort of things would cause a round to be ejected accidentally and possibly unnoticed by the carrier? Would dropping a gin that’s ready to be fired have the ability to eject the ammo? My thinking was it would have been locked in and would have to be physically ejected a specific way.

You are right. Once in, a round is in there until fired or manually ejected.

 

[MassGuy]

Here’s a link that alludes to whate I read yesterday. It is NOT the one I remember from yesterday, though. The one from yesterday described RA ‘vehemently’ - (I believe was the word used) writing the note which he passed to Baldwin, who passed it to Rozzi. The article I am trying to find also did not have all the misspelling as this one. For now though, here’s something:

Sheriff admits Richard Allen doesn’t match witness descriptions of ‘bridge guy’ | Day 6 of Delphi murders trial

Seven years after Libby German and Abby Williams were killed, the trial continues for the man accused of murdering them.

www.21alivenews.com

10:39 a.m. - Brad Rozzi conducted the cross examination on Dan Dulan.

Rozzi said, “He (Allen) came forward, right?”

Dulan said, “Yes.”

Rozzi said, “He told you he was on his way to the grocery store?”

Dulan said he didn’t remember, but that was possible.

***& for the record I may be misremembering that Dulin agreed when asked if that was the way it went down. Maybe he did only say possibly. So frustrating when I can’t find exactly what I am looking for.

That works, regardless, it casts doubt on that narrative that he "refused."

 

[tlcya]

I thought if a person was not under arrest, they could leave the police station / have police leave their home (in the absence of a warrant to search or arrest)? mooo

they 100% could. I suspect that a suspect or POI might worry that would give the LEO a certain negative impression which in turn could cause LEOs to look even harder at the person IMO.

Not to mention if it was done at the police station there is a greater chance that that initial interaction between RA and LE back in 2017 would have been at least audio taped as most people believe through watching TV and trials that interview rooms at police stations are equipped with recording capability.

 

[joe jones]

Jumping off your post here but not aimed at you MG...

If the State had that bullet tested USING other guns - would that not affect the markings ON that bullet?

I guess I am asking: did they test the bullet found specifically at the scene - the actual bullet - or did they test another one, just like it from a new box?

hope this makes sense. Not an opinion, genuine questions. TY

I wondered that too, I hope we get clarification. I have thought how did they test it against other guns without firing it, did they cycle it through the guns they were testing it against,
I have hope that they didn't do anything to it except for DNA and fingerprints as the bullet has to be in the condition it was found it for it to even begin to have any validity
I still don't think it is scientific to have to fire the cartridge in order to test it, the markings on it if there are any pre firing are the marks that reflect the cycling through that was all that was done when it was found,
But if states witness can show me peer reviewed scientific papers showing that this is an acceptable scientific was to do the testing I will read papers and see what they have to sayI have just read another post that said they test fired cartridges that were the same as crime scene cartridge, still don't understand why it has to be fired

 

[iamshadow21]

I wondered that too, I hope we get clarification. I have thought how did they test it against other guns without firing it, did they cycle it through the guns they were testing it against,
I have hope that they didn't do anything to it except for DNA and fingerprints as the bullet has to be in the condition it was found it for it to even begin to have any validity
I still don't think it is scientific to have to fire the cartridge in order to test it, the markings on it if there are any pre firing are the marks that reflect the cycling through that was all that was done when it was found,
But if states witness can show me peer reviewed scientific papers showing that this is an acceptable scientific was to do the testing I will read papers and see what they have to say

Nobody fired the evidence round!

That is not a thing!

MOO

 

[Yemelyan]

Edited...

About Oberg's training:
This is the 112th time she has testified as a toolmark examiner and said her testimony has come in both federal and state jurisdictions. She most recently testified in a Marion County case in August.

She said ISP does proficiency tests from outside vendors to make sure someone is still qualified to work in the field. She passed what she called “blackbox studies,” challenging tests meant to check an analyst’s work.

About RA's gun:
On Oct. 14, 2022, she received the Sig Sauer P226 found in Allen’s home on Whiteman Drive after police executed their search warrant.
Oberg displayed images showing “areas of agreement” in marks. Her testimony included various photos of Allen’s gun, the marks in question and the gun’s ejector and extractor.

Oberg told the court she cycled and fired rounds from Allen’s gun so she could compare the marks to the cartridge found at the murder scene.

Defense attorney Bradley Rozzi objected a number of times during Oberg’s testimony. Gull overruled him.

Source: https://fox59.com/delphi-trial/delp...toolmark-methodology-unspent-bullet-evidence/

 

[Web_Sleuth]

You are right. Once in, a round is in there until fired or manually ejected.

Thank you. So what kinds of things can cause it to be “manually ejected”? Only a hand or could dropping cause that? Something else..?

 

[MrB327]

So…a question for those of you more familiar with these types of guns. What sort of things would cause a round to be ejected accidentally and possibly unnoticed by the carrier? Would dropping a gin that’s ready to be fired have the ability to eject the ammo? My thinking was it would have been locked in and would have to be physically ejected a specific way.

A round would not eject from dropping. I'm sure he just pulled the slide back and racked another bullet for intimidation purposes, causing the bullet already in the chamber to eject. IMO