Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #209

[CS2C]

Did they confirm whether a toxicology report was conducted on both Abby and Libby?

 

[minor4th]

I know next to nothing about guns, but is it possible to have two bullets in the chamber, one that he might have ejected on the bridge into the river below, more or less at the point he says he did something with the gun, and the second one where it was found to be amongst the leaves on the ground? I can see him making threats with the gun at both locations to get the girls' cooperation. If it's possible he had two bullets in the chamber.

No, BUT if he had one in the chamber to begin with and racked the gun on the bridge, it would eject an unspent cartridge. If he racked the gun at the crime scene, it would eject another unspent cartridge.

 

[Dhighsmith]

I’m still not sure he actually said “white” van. Dr Walla only testified that he saw a van - not a white van.

From recap of testimony, the confession did not indicate the color of van. During trial testimony, LE and BW described the van as being white in color. The white color of BW’s van he claimed to have driven during the time of girls abduction has since been included in media and social media statements, somewhat misleading as the verbiage relayed by the Dr Wala on confession of RA does not include a descriptive color of van.

 

[sunspun]

No, BUT if he had one in the chamber to begin with and racked the gun on the bridge, it would eject an unspent cartridge. If he racked the gun at the crime scene, it would eject another unspent cartridge.

In one of his confessions, he said in part that the bullet they found must have come from his gun when he "did something with his gun" up on the bridge, I believe this was when he first allegedly spoke to the girls. His theory supports the people who listened to the audio and thought they heard a gun being racked. But the bullet (or more accurate term is cartridge?) that they found was not found up on the bridge where he would have been when he first spoke to the girls allegedly. It was found down below at "ground zero" crime scene, near the bodies. There's no way for the one found down below to have been the one that may have been ejected up on the bridge. So if he's correct that one was ejected when he did something with his gun up on the bridge, and we know there definitely was one found near the bodies, that would mean there were 2 bullets ejected that day. So there may still be one that has yet to be found.

I wonder if RA knows exactly where the one was found, if he knows it was not found near the spot on the bridge where he was when he did something with his gun. Sounds like not, imo. But surely the details of where they found it would have been included in the reading material he was provided with. Maybe he just didn't take note of that. But he said he recalled doing something with his gun and that must have been when one was ejected and that, according to him, was how they ended up finding a bullet from his gun. But we know the bullet they found was found near the bodies. So it seems odd that he didn't recall doing something again with his gun, later, after they crossed the creek. Or if he did, odd that he didn't mention that time.

I think someone should go with a metal detector and search the spot up on the bridge.

 

[statt#1]

There's no way for the one found down below to have been the one that may have been ejected up on the bridge.

I cut this line out of your post, as it simply isn't true. In fact, it's entirely possible, if RA's account is even true, which it may or may not be, but assuming he racked that slide on the bridge, that ejected bullet could easily have landed in his pocket, or even in one of the girls' pockets....now that would be a thing, wouldn't it?

 

[JnRyan]

I wanted to respond to this as I've thought about it over the past few days.

When a semi-automatic firearm is actually fired, the process is quite violent, and the ejected casing is normally thrown to the right quite a distance, I've seen 5 feet away up to maybe 15 feet or so away and to the right.....Sometimes this event, in certain guns, will throw that ejected casing more forward of the shooter, sometimes more backwards and to the right, and sometimes, under circumstances, a shooter will take that casing to his/her face, or it'll fly over his/her head, or straight forward, or even down a shirt, which, by the way, burns because it's rather hot right after being fired.

Now, the entire process of ejection changes under a 'manual' racking of a gun, because it's not as violent of a process, it's slower, done by hand, and in this case, it's not a lightweight casing being ejected, rather the entire round, and it's heavier. This causes the round to behave differently when coming out of the gun, and it doesn't "fly" to the right like a casing would during live fire. Some times it just pops out to the right, or it may 'dribble' out and fall straight down, or sideways, or backwards.

So, my conclusion, as a firearms aficionado, AND, I've had this happen to me more than one time, an ejected round, or casing, can easily hit the shooter in the forehead, or land in a shirt pocket, or a jacket pocket. Now, I'm not sayin' this is what happened here, but I think it very possible.

Oh yes! Hot brass hitting my head happened more than once! The worst was one that went behind my eye protection and face to land between the lens and face. I had a mark from the burn for a couple of years. (That called for new eyewear and always wearing a ball cap after.)
But well said. I agree with all of the above. (Sometimes on guns such as a 1911 style you can fix constant errant ejection by tuning or replacing the extractor. You know, that part of the gun that is blamed for mark on RA's cartridge.)

 

[sunshineray]

There was no time stamp on the pictures so the jury would have no idea of when the pics were taken. Hard to prove what they don't know.

No pictures or video that can be dated to that time, when his wife and daughter were active on social media? I find that extremely hard to believe.

What about vacation pictures/videos, they must know exactly at their work places when they took vacation days in 2017?

2016 Christmas pics? 2017 Birthday pics? 2017 engagement photos with his daughter and fiance? Nothing huh? That's very odd. JMO

 

[FrostedGlass]

No pictures or video that can be dated to that time, when his wife and daughter were active on social media? I find that extremely hard to believe.

What about vacation pictures/videos, they must know exactly at their work places when they took vacation days in 2017?

2016 Christmas pics? 2017 Birthday pics? 2017 engagement photos with his daughter and fiance? Nothing huh? That's very odd. JMO

I think it's odd, too. He sure had a lot to choose from. Why pick ones with no dates on them?

 

[girlhasnoname]

No pictures or video that can be dated to that time, when his wife and daughter were active on social media? I find that extremely hard to believe.

What about vacation pictures/videos, they must know exactly at their work places when they took vacation days in 2017?

2016 Christmas pics? 2017 Birthday pics? 2017 engagement photos with his daughter and fiance? Nothing huh? That's very odd. JMO

Agreed, there are ways to find the data of when a photo was taken. I mean we are talking about LE and the FBI, supposedly NASA was involved at one point. Finding the Metadata wouldn't be hard with their resources.

IMO

 

[sunshineray]

I think it's odd, too. He sure had a lot to choose from. Why pick ones with no dates on them?

Maybe they thought the time they were posted was the time they were taken? If they were being posted as being taken somewhere recent?

 

[sunshineray]

I’m still not sure he actually said “white” van. Dr Walla only testified that he saw a van - not a white van.

And BW drove his 'van" down that driveway, confirmed at that time, when RA said he was there after Libby's video confirms that time. All that should get disregarded because RA said he was interrupted by a van, instead of "white van"? Is that a logical or reasonable way to think about that evidence? I'm sincerly asking because it's dumbfounding to me.

 

[Bbgiraffe]

I cut this line out of your post, as it simply isn't true. In fact, it's entirely possible, if RA's account is even true, which it may or may not be, but assuming he racked that slide on the bridge, that ejected bullet could easily have landed in his pocket, or even in one of the girls' pockets....now that would be a thing, wouldn't it?

Or he picked it up, put in his pocket then it fell out and he didn't notice.

 

[Inthedetails]

And BW drove his 'van" down that driveway, confirmed at that time, when RA said he was there after Libby's video confirms that time. All that should get disregarded because RA said he was interrupted by a van, instead of "white van"? Is that a logical or reasonable way to think about that evidence? I'm sincerly asking because it's dumbfounding to me.

Yeah, is a non-existent green van going to save him??

There was ONE van in that place at that time. RA said it interrupted him.

jmo

 

[sunshineray]

Agreed, there are ways to find the data of when a photo was taken. I mean we are talking about LE and the FBI, supposedly NASA was involved at one point. Finding the Metadata wouldn't be hard with their resources.

IMO

You would think so. I don't think the time stamping can possible be the reason why this was denied? Well if so, hopefully something is being done to rectify it for rebuttal. I think the jury deserves to see what the defendant looked like at the time of the murders, since Libby's video is in evidence. JMO

 

[Inthedetails]

Or he picked it up, put in his pocket then it fell out and he didn't notice.

Whatever the case, he admits he "did something with his gun" on the bridge and then a cartridge is found at the location of the murder. Whether it is the same cartridge or a second one, the sequence links to him.

It's okay to draw logical conclusions when nothing refutes them and when there are many other pieces that also point to him. You don't need runes to explain a duck is a duck.

jmo

 

[WildHuncher]

I wanted to respond to this as I've thought about it over the past few days.

When a semi-automatic firearm is actually fired, the process is quite violent, and the ejected casing is normally thrown to the right quite a distance, I've seen 5 feet away up to maybe 15 feet or so away and to the right.....Sometimes this event, in certain guns, will throw that ejected casing more forward of the shooter, sometimes more backwards and to the right, and sometimes, under circumstances, a shooter will take that casing to his/her face, or it'll fly over his/her head, or straight forward, or even down a shirt, which, by the way, burns because it's rather hot right after being fired.

Now, the entire process of ejection changes under a 'manual' racking of a gun, because it's not as violent of a process, it's slower, done by hand, and in this case, it's not a lightweight casing being ejected, rather the entire round, and it's heavier. This causes the round to behave differently when coming out of the gun, and it doesn't "fly" to the right like a casing would during live fire. Some times it just pops out to the right, or it may 'dribble' out and fall straight down, or sideways, or backwards.

So, my conclusion, as a firearms aficionado, AND, I've had this happen to me more than one time, an ejected round, or casing, can easily hit the shooter in the forehead, or land in a shirt pocket, or a jacket pocket. Now, I'm not sayin' this is what happened here, but I think it very possible.

Easiest thing in the world is imagining ejecting a handgun-sized round and losing visual track of it while you’re concentrating on staring down two terrified teenage girls intent on fleeing. It falls into the dry brown leaves and maybe you even step on it.

<snip>
I can see him making threats with the gun at both locations to get the girls' cooperation. If it's possible he had two bullets in the chamber.

THIS much is right. He might well have racked the slide purely as a threat gesture in both places. If you have a round already in place to fire, it makes no operational sense to eject it, but he figured the girls didn’t know that and he was trying to project menace by “doing something with the gun.” But it’s only one round in the chamber at a time, the rest feed up in their turn from the magazine.

 

[susiQ]

Someone’s been working really hard! Filed with the SCOIN.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1852227250206236967

 

[WildHuncher]

Whatever the case, he admits he "did something with his gun" on the bridge and then a cartridge is found at the location of the murder. Whether it is the same cartridge or a second one, the sequence links to him.

It's okay to draw logical conclusions when nothing refutes them and when there are many other pieces that also point to him. You don't need runes to explain a duck is a duck.

jmo

Great minds fall into the same gutters.

 

[Inthedetails]

Someone’s been working really hard! Filed with the SCOIN.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1852227250206236967

Can someone provide a summary? tia

 

[shonyakay]

From recap of testimony, the confession did not indicate the color of van. During trial testimony, LE and BW described the van as being white in color. The white color of BW’s van he claimed to have driven during the time of girls abduction has since been included in media and social media statements, somewhat misleading as the verbiage relayed by the Dr Wala on confession of RA does not include a descriptive color of van.

To me it doesn't matter if RA said the color of the van. The point is he said a "van" drove by and interrupted him trying to sexually assault Abby and Libby. "BG" forced the girls' at gunpoint off of the bridge and down the hill at 2:14 p.m.

Abby's jeans was off at one point and there was dirt found on her back. Also, her jeans and panties were inside out and found in the creek. Some of Libby's clothing was found in the creek. Libby's sweatshirt had a water ring around the bottom of it and her jeans were damp/wet and found on Abby. Libby was found completely nude.

This corroborates RA's confession that he tried to sexually assault Abby and Libby.

BW would have been driving by in his van around 2:30 ish.

RA said he walked the girls' across the creek.

Their articles of clothing were found in the water near both sides of the creek.

There is an incline on the side of the creek they were found on.

Libby's phone recorded a 2 floor elevation at 2:31 p.m.

Libby's phone ceased movement at 2:32 p.m.
and was later found under Abby's leg.

He then said he cut their throats. He said he was selfish. He wasn't going to let them live to tell on him. Imo.

Parts of his confession is corroborated by digital evidence. He is guilty and I hope he never gets out of prison.

Edited: To add more text.