Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #212

[minor4th]

If I was a juror, I'd be giving them almost no weight by now.
Dr. Kohr is the one that disappointed me the most so far.

Remind me who Kohr was?

 

[MassGuy]

I’m still confused about whether or not he was a forensic pathologist. My understanding is that he is not. He is a pathologist, that was elected to do autopsies, so he would have had an M.D. But he wouldn’t have specialized in forensic pathology/done autopsies until he was elected to do so? Does anyone know which day he testifies?

Forensic pathologist: Abby was cut once on the neck. Libby was cut at least four times.​

Dr. Roland Kohr, a semi-retired forensic pathologist who conducted the autopsies on the teens on Feb. 15, 2017, said Abby had a 2-inch laceration across her neck that damaged the left jugular vein. Kohr said the cut appeared to have been made from right to left.

Libby had at least four, maybe five, overlapping wounds on her neck, Kohr testified. Two of the cuts, one on each side, were lethal and hit arteries ― meaning blood would have spread several feet. Both of her hands were also bloody, Kohr said, suggesting she might have grabbed her neck.

Kohr, who said that he had performed between 7,700 and 7,800 autopsies in his career, estimated that the teens lived four to 10 minutes after their throats were slashed, although they likely lost consciousness before dying.

Kohr also said there were no signs that the girls were sexually assaulted. But he testified this does not mean there was no sexual contact, just that "no trauma was left."

A call, Snapchat photos, the infamous video: Delphi trial offers timeline of girls' activities

Jurors on Wednesday heard from a forensic digital expert who analyzed Libby's phone and from an eyewitness who claimed seeing the "Bridge Guy."

www.southbendtribune.com

 

[FrostedGlass]

3:55 P.M. POOL REPORTER’S TRANSCRIPTION OF A COURT EXHIBIT.​

The following is a direct transcription of an exhibit shown to the media today after court adjourned. It is a psych evaluation of Richard Allen prepared by Dr. John Martin on June 20, 2023.

“This morning the patient was interviewed in an interview cell. He had been wearing a uniform when he was taken to the cell but chose to take it off and was in a tee shirt and boxers. Several contusions on his face that had been self-induced are no longer as prominent. Eye contact was poor. he spoke very softly but also very briefly. He kept asking for Dr. Wala. He was coherent and spoke without loose associations or flight of ideas. He was oriented to person, place, time of day and situation. He has a constricted (ed. note, difficult to read this word.) affect. He said that he had suicidal ideations. He did not want to talk too much. What he did talk about was his concern for his wife. He said that he wanted to apologize to the families of his victims. He is eating his meals. He is keeping himself clean. A renew of the logs shows that he is getting an adequate amount of sleep and is eating most of his meals. He has been meeting with Dr. Wala for therapy sessions and is due to see her in a few minutes. He was not consistent in taking his oral medications and so it was discontinued. He will continue on Prozac. I am discontinuing the Haldol Decanoate today. In general he is much improved and does not appear to be psychotic at the present time. He claims to be suicidal. He is continued on suicide watch. He will be interviewed again in two weeks.” -End of transcription.

Delphi Murders trial: Day 17 live blog

Richard Allen, accused of murdering 13-year-old Abigail Williams and 14-year-old Liberty German in 2017, is on trial in Carroll County, Indiana. The defense rested their case at the start of Day 17, and are expected to give closing arguments soon.

wishtv.com

Updated: Nov 6, 2024 / 04:07 PM EST

Now I'm really confused about RA's meds. Surely they weren't giving him daily doses of Haldol and monthly injections of it, too?

They had just given him a monthly dose 4 days before the Dr.'s visit so he probably was feeling better.

He was taking Prozac (daily?)
He was not consistent in taking his oral medications and so it was discontinued. (Haldol Decanoate?)

April 13, 2023: The prison psychologist ordered Allen receive an involuntary injection of psychotropic medication.
May 18, 2023: Allen receives another dose of psychotropic medication.
June 16, 2023: Allen receives another dose of psychotropic medication.

Judge rules Delphi murders suspect Richard Allen to be moved to county jail

It is not yet known where Allen will be housed or when he will be moved to a new jail.

www.wthr.com

 

[FrostedGlass]

Remind me who Kohr was?

The forensic pathologist.

Dr. Roland Kohr, MD - Forensic Pathologist in Terre Haute, IN | Healthgrades

Dr. Roland Kohr, MD is a forensic pathologist in Terre Haute, IN and has over 45 years of experience in the medical field. He graduated from Indiana University / Bloomington in 1979. He is affiliated with Terre Haute Regional Hospital.

www.healthgrades.com

 

[MassGuy]

I agree about not loving some of them. I expected the forensic pathologist to be neutral; talking to the P, changing his mind about his findings (after all these years) and then not telling the D... I just thought he would be above doing something like that.

He never changed his findings. All he said was that a boxcutter could have been used to kill the girls as opposed to a knife. It's not like he was changing cause of death or anything.

I'm only surprised the defense didn't call someone to rebut that.

 

[sunshineray]

So many of the states witnesses have changed their statements from earlier depositions and testimony - and yes all the changes favor the State. It’s a clear sign of agenda-driven testimony and should be given less weight by the jury.

What agenda, to convict an innocent man who's just happened to confess his guilt an extraordinary amount of times? Why in the world would LE want to do such a thing? It makes no sense at all, IMO. The witnesses told their stories honestly, how they remembered. It was 7 long years ago, if they were mistaken and refreshed their memories by looking at depositions or LE interview's statements, that's no more than I've seen in many others trials. Two teenage girls, two mature local women, one still traumatized by what she saw and a local guy just going home from working all day, from before daybreak. Those people have no agenda. They're citizens testifying about what they witnessed 7 years ago. And their testimony was always going to favor the State because they saw the killer. Their timeline and RA's own words, to DD, to his family and to his doctor ring of truth, not spin.
AJMO

 

[Salah11]

Way to many pages to catch up on any breaking news from today?

Thanks in advance

 

[minor4th]

The forensic pathologist.

Dr. Roland Kohr, MD - Forensic Pathologist in Terre Haute, IN | Healthgrades

Dr. Roland Kohr, MD is a forensic pathologist in Terre Haute, IN and has over 45 years of experience in the medical field. He graduated from Indiana University / Bloomington in 1979. He is affiliated with Terre Haute Regional Hospital.

www.healthgrades.com

Oh is he the guy who did the autopsies and said the wounds appeared to have been caused by a serrated edge and a flat edge? Then reversed himself in trial to conform to the state’s theory?

 

[FrostedGlass]

Oh is he the guy who did the autopsies and said the wounds appeared to have been caused by a serrated edge and a flat edge? Then reversed himself in trial to conform to the state’s theory?

Yes, that's the one.

 

[sunshineray]

Way to many pages to catch up on any breaking news from today?

Thanks in advance

Just that the defense rested

 

[lonetraveler]

I had to leave for a little while, what have I missed? Going to start trying to catch up.

 

[Inthedetails]

Way to many pages to catch up on any breaking news from today?

Thanks in advance

Defense rested. Closing arguments tomorrow.

jmo

 

[minor4th]

Now I'm really confused about RA's meds. Surely they weren't giving him daily doses of Haldol and monthly injections of it, too?

They had just given him a monthly dose 4 days before the Dr.'s visit so he probably was feeling better.

He was taking Prozac (daily?)
He was not consistent in taking his oral medications and so it was discontinued. (Haldol Decanoate?)

April 13, 2023: The prison psychologist ordered Allen receive an involuntary injection of psychotropic medication.
May 18, 2023: Allen receives another dose of psychotropic medication.
June 16, 2023: Allen receives another dose of psychotropic medication.

Judge rules Delphi murders suspect Richard Allen to be moved to county jail

It is not yet known where Allen will be housed or when he will be moved to a new jail.

www.wthr.com

The medication issue has been as clear as mud IMO

 

[minor4th]

What agenda, to convict an innocent man who's just happened to confess his guilt an extraordinary amount of times? Why in the world would LE want to do such a thing? It makes no sense at all, IMO. The witnesses told their stories honestly, how they remembered. It was 7 long years ago, if they were mistaken and refreshed their memories by looking at depositions or LE interview's statements, that's no more than I've seen in many others trials. Two teenage girls, two mature local women, one still traumatized by what she saw and a local guy just going home from working all day, from before daybreak. Those people have no agenda. They're citizens testifying about what they witnessed 7 years ago. And their testimony was always going to favor the State because they saw the killer. Their timeline and RA's own words, to DD, to his family and to his doctor ring of truth, not spin.
AJMO

Well they’ve tailored their testimony and changed it from prior testimony - this smells like a win-at-any-cost mentality. Either the state’s case is strong enough without having witnesses change their testimony, or it is not. In this case it seems like the states case was not strong enough without massaging witness testimony. JMO

 

[otto]

The medication issue has been as clear as mud IMO

Not really. RA acted psychotic. He was put on drugs. He stopped acting psychotic. He was taken off the drugs. He continued to admit guilt.

 

[Ravenmoon]

Well they’ve tailored their testimony and changed it from prior testimony - this smells like a win-at-any-cost mentality. Either the state’s case is strong enough without having witnesses change their testimony, or it is not. In this case it seems like the states case was not strong enough without massaging witness testimony. JMO

What has the state changed?

 

[sunshineray]

Oh is he the guy who did the autopsies and said the wounds appeared to have been caused by a serrated edge and a flat edge? Then reversed himself in trial to conform to the state’s theory?

He didn't reverse himself. After RA's confession he was asked on the stand if it was possible a boxcutter could have made the wounds Abby and Libby sustained. He said in his professional opinion, yes it could have. When he wrote his reports all those years ago that information wasn't known. It was an honest and logical question to ask, since RA confessed it. And his answer was also an honest answer from a professional, a Dr on the stand and under oath.
AJMO

 

[minor4th]

Not really. RA acted psychotic. He was put on drugs. He stopped acting psychotic. He was taken off the drugs. He continued to admit guilt.

It was not that clear at all. Besides Haldol injections once a month we don’t know what other oral medications he was taking, and the Dr said he continued to have psychosis in May and June.

 

[zh0r4]

Now I'm really confused about RA's meds. Surely they weren't giving him daily doses of Haldol and monthly injections of it, too?

They had just given him a monthly dose 4 days before the Dr.'s visit so he probably was feeling better.

He was taking Prozac (daily?)
He was not consistent in taking his oral medications and so it was discontinued. (Haldol Decanoate?)

April 13, 2023: The prison psychologist ordered Allen receive an involuntary injection of psychotropic medication.
May 18, 2023: Allen receives another dose of psychotropic medication.
June 16, 2023: Allen receives another dose of psychotropic medication.

Judge rules Delphi murders suspect Richard Allen to be moved to county jail

It is not yet known where Allen will be housed or when he will be moved to a new jail.

www.wthr.com

I believe it was weekly injections in addition to daily doses of Haldol? And Seroquel has been mentioned-IIRC during Dr Wala’s testimony. But I can’t find any articles so I’m unsure when he was taking Seroquel (another antipsychotic)-was it before Westville, at Westville, or after he was transferred? Surely the prescribing Dr has a detailed record of what drugs he was being given.

 

[misantha]

I do not think state has reached BARD for me, there theory of how the crime happened and the time/timings don't add up for me, so even if I was persuaded that he did it the state theory of the crime is not feasible for me.
But as I posted on Day 1 of trial I expect a conviction as IMO it would be a very strong jury/juror to vote NG with all the pressures, expectations and high profile of the case

I think the jury questions have been insightful and intelligent, and I believe this is an indication that they are paying attention and understand the seriousness of what they are being asked to do. As someone who has been on a jury, it is a huge burden to put someone's life in their hands. This is not a death penalty case, but they are being asked to incarcerate him for life.....after watching how that has impacted his mental state while awaiting this trial.

I've been nothing but impressed with them based on the reporting even though it is has been limited to their questions and reactions, and I hope these jurors do not get any blow back regardless of the verdict for doing their civic duty.