Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #212

[minor4th]

He didn't reverse himself. After RA's confession he was asked on the stand if it was possible a boxcutter could have made the wounds Abby and Libby sustained. He said in his professional opinion, yes it could have. When he wrote his reports all those years ago that information wasn't known. It was an honest and logical question to ask, since RA confessed it. And his answer was also an honest answer from a professional, a Dr on the stand and under oath.
AJMO

I’m sorry but you don’t just spontaneously go from thinking at least two knives were used to thinking a box cutter could have inflicted all of the wounds.

 

[sunshineray]

He never changed his findings. All he said was that a boxcutter could have been used to kill the girls as opposed to a knife. It's not like he was changing cause of death or anything.

I'm only surprised the defense didn't call someone to rebut that.

They sure had plenty of time to do so. Maybe they just couldn't find an expert to disagree?

 

[tlcya]

Martin said he saw Allen several times in May, and each time, Allen was “coherent” and there was “no evidence” of psychosis

On June 20, Allen had gone seven weeks without showing signs of psychosis and Martin decided to stop the Haldol injections.
Delphi Murders trial: Day 17 live blog

 

[sunshineray]

I’m sorry but you don’t just spontaneously go from thinking at least two knives were used to thinking a box cutter could have inflicted all of the wounds.

You do when it's the question asked and under the new circumstances. Did the D ever depose the pathologist after RA confessed about the boxcutter? If they didn't maybe they should have?

 

[minor4th]

You do when it's the question asked and under the new circumstances. Did the D ever depose the pathologist after RA confessed about the boxcutter? If they didn't maybe they should have?

Have you ever seen a serrated box cutter?

 

[Salah11]

So a question for the masses does anybody who thought he was guilty now think he is innocent?

 

[MassGuy]

Have you ever seen a serrated box cutter?

If I'm not mistaken, he said the boxcutter wasn't serrated. He said the handle dragging across the skin would give that impression.

 

[detectivewannab]

Great MapMap shows locations mentioned in the Delphi murders trial of Richard Allen

 

[sunshineray]

Have you ever seen a serrated box cutter?

Yep, used many, all different kinds too.

 

[Tricia]

Tonight at 10:30 PM Eastern Lauren Matthias from Hidden True Crime will be on our Websleuths YouTube Livestream. We hope you will join us.

 

[minor4th]

Martin said he saw Allen several times in May, and each time, Allen was “coherent” and there was “no evidence” of psychosis

On June 20, Allen had gone seven weeks without showing signs of psychosis and Martin decided to stop the Haldol injections.
Delphi Murders trial: Day 17 live blog

Also from your link:

Martin tells the jury that he does not know why Allen’s actions on June 20, 2023 seem different than what he had recorded but that he does not question his own records. He says he believes that Allen had returned to baseline by May 2, 2023.

And jury questions:

1. Did the oral haldol continue after June 20, 2023? Martin answers yes.
2. What time did you meet with Allen on June 20, 2023? Martin says early in the morning.
3. Based on the video, could this presentation be consistent with faking? Martin says no.
4. Is it possible for Allen to slip in and out of psychosis in a 24-hour period? Martin says yes

I don’t think it’s clear at all that the psychosis had stopped and never returned.

 

[minor4th]

If I'm not mistaken, he said the boxcutter wasn't serrated. He said the handle dragging across the skin would give that impression.

And you find that perfectly credible?

 

[Warwick7]

If the state, judge and jury was caught off guard about the D resting so soon, that's kind of unusual----usually they'd be updating every morning about how many witnesses remain, so the judge has a way manage the time. If it was a surprise, that could be one of two things.

Maybe the D purposely pretended to keep going---then suddenly quit so the P would not be ready for their rebuttal?

OR maybe the D just ran out of witnesses or decided to just quit while they felt they were on a high note?

BBM
THIS sounds exactly like the defense's shenanigans.

 

[steeltowngirl]

Well they’ve tailored their testimony and changed it from prior testimony - this smells like a win-at-any-cost mentality. Either the state’s case is strong enough without having witnesses change their testimony, or it is not. In this case it seems like the states case was not strong enough without massaging witness testimony. JMO

I have followed quite a few cases on WS. I don’t recall a case where a verified attorney outright stated that the State’s prosecution had massaged witness testimony to help win their weak case. It’s quite an allegation. Have you encountered examples of this happening in other cases you’ve followed, either here, or in the real world?

 

[loveplace]

Have you ever seen a serrated box cutter?

Yes.

 

[detectivewannab]

Have you ever seen a serrated box cutter?

Google it! Lol Yes

 

[Megnut]

 

[lonetraveler]

I'm not very happy about the testimony from the "gun expert". How on earth do you compare a fired round to an unspent round and say they match?

 

[EllaMinnowP]

Oh is he the guy who did the autopsies and said the wounds appeared to have been caused by a serrated edge and a flat edge? Then reversed himself in trial to conform to the state’s theory?

What irked my tater about him was that it seemed to me like he was disingenuous about how he came to the box cutter conclusion. IIRC, he said there was a box cutter in his workspace and it just dawned on him. (Something like that was the way I took what I read; I know it’s not his exact verbiage.) For me, the timing of it makes it seem pretty likely he was informed of RA’s confession before forming his updated opinion. If that’s what happened, I just prefer the truth. I was also dismayed that the defense only learned of his updated opinion during his testimony, although he had recently been deposed by them.

MOO

 

[minor4th]

I have followed quite a few cases on WS. I don’t recall a case where a verified attorney outright stated that the State’s prosecution had massaged witness testimony to help win their weak case. It’s quite an allegation. Have you encountered examples of this happening in other cases you’ve followed, either here, or in the real world?

Yes.