Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #212

[Deleted member 229974]

The press pool notes don’t indicate what the answer to the question was- maybe more info tonight in the debriefs - moo

Thank you.

 

[TristanP]

"Somebody removed that cable from the phone at 10 p.m.," Eldridge told jurors, adding later: "I cannot think of any explanation that does not involve humans."

OMG are you kidding me? What is this person's specialty again? A FBI digital evidence instructor.
Ugh...

Aren't the FBI instructors the ones who actually teach the investigators how to...investigate?

 

[Deleted member 229974]

Just guessing, it’s an information transmission system to port various reporters notes from the courthouse during lunch and at the end of the day for input into wishTv news reports.

Thank you.

 

[katydid23]

Jury questions:
12:24 p.m., the jury began their questions of Warren:

1. How would CMS or objective testing be used? Pool notes do not show an answer.
2. Would removing, cleaning, disassembling change individual characteristics of a firearm? Warren says, “no, only if there was some sort of damage.”
3. Do you know if manufacturer keeps track of sub-class? Warren says, “no, they don’t.”
4. Pool notes do not transcribe a question, but Warren says, “my role here was to educate attorneys on what documentation was and see if it supported the concession.”
5. Would doing your own analysis have been more conclusive? Warren says, “hard to say.”
6. Is CMS criteria the gold standard? Pool notes do not indicate an answer.
7. Are you a certified firearm and tool mark examiner? No answer in pool notes.
8. Would individual markings be different depending on who cycles? Warren says, “documentation of Oberg does not support conclusion.”
9. Did you look at the sub-class marks of the cartridge? Pool notes do not show an answer.
10. What is the relevance of cartridges having similar sub-class characteristics? Warren says, “Depends on if it is from manufacturing or cycling.”
11. Are sequential serial numbers made in the same lot? Warren says, “generally accepted that close serial numbers have parts made at similar times, but may be in different lots.”
12. Are you aware that Oberg’s conclusion was unfired by another expert? Warren says yes.
13. Are you aware Allen’s gun’s ejector was recessed and had similar markings to markings made on the cartridge? Pool notes do not indicate an answer.
14. Is it normal practice to not issue a report when consulting? Warren says yes.
15. Wha are the chances that the cartridge at the scene matches the test bullets? Warren says, “higher likelihood of guns just in Indiana.”

The court is in recess and breaks for lunch at 12:42 p.m.

Delphi Murders trial: Day 16 live blog

Day 16 in the trial of Delphi Murders suspect Richard Allen begins Tuesday at the Carroll County Courthouse in Delphi. Follow our live blog for the latest updates.

www.wishtv.com

Seems that the jury has a couple of members experienced with firearms. That's a good thing. IMO

 

[MrsWatson]

What on earth? If that is accurately reported, this is incredibly bad testimony and ripe for rebuttal from the prosecution.

JMO

Considering this is apparently a very very common problem with this phone model, as revealed by an easy Google search, and our own @Warwick7, that pretty much sinks her credibility, moo.

 

[minor4th]

Eldrige tells the jury the defense is paying her $300 per hour to testify. She says she has worked 65 hours in examination for this case and 15 hours prepping for testimony.

That seems like a LOT of hours. I can’t imagine spending 15 hours prepping for testimony.

 

[m00c0w]

At 3:09 p.m. prosecutor Nick McLeland starts cross-examination. he asks Eldridge about her training on cell phone extraction. She says this is the first time she has testified about cell phone extraction, other than in July.

Yikes

McLeland begins cross examination at 4:08 p.m. Cecil says he googled the water question asked by the jury before the break. He said a Google search said that a phone could register water or dirt in the headphone port as having headphones plugged in.

Not a fan of Cecil in this moment, but at least he got the correct answer on the record. If the jury is paying attention, the previous witness’ credibility should be shot.

JMO

Delphi Murders trial: Day 16 live blog

Day 16 in the trial of Delphi Murders suspect Richard Allen begins Tuesday at the Carroll County Courthouse in Delphi. Follow our live blog for the latest updates.

www.wishtv.com

 

[photographer4]

Careful, you might wind up being the original source for this new rumor.

It’s all very odd either way. No more steps after 2:32 (? IIRC) but getting plugged into something well after the State’s own timeline has them deceased.

I’m more interested in steps starting at 1:30pm. They were already at the trails I guess by then otherwise wouldn’t we see steps from house to car, car ride (no steps) then resumed steps at the trail once dropped off? This, imo really makes me question the timeline set out by the state!! Moo.

 

[TristanP]

Exactly.

He compared photographs under a microscope.

 What's he hoping to compare? Pixelation at ridiculous amplification?

What science supports that for ballistics comparisons?

Not impressed.

JMO

That's how the expert for the state did the comparisons as well.

 

[steeltowngirl]

At 4:07 p.m. court is back in session. Judge Gull starts off by scolding the jury, she says officers informed her of people in the jury talking and says anyone talking will be kicked out.

The defense calls to the stand First Sergeant Chris Cecil from ISP. Defense attorney Jennifer Auger asks him what an “audio output start” means. He says he does not know. Cecil says he doesn’t have the education to know why a cell phone would or wouldn’t connect to a tower.

McLeland begins cross examination at 4:08 p.m. Cecil says he googled the water question asked by the jury before the break. He said a Google search said that a phone could register water or dirt in the headphone port as having headphones plugged in.

Auger begins redirect and asks Cecil, “do you normally Google search when conducting research in a criminal investigation?” Cecil says “not normally, no.” Auger asks “you normally look at peer reviewed articles, right?” Cecil says “that’s correct.”

Auger asks “you and the state have had 7.5 years to research this?” “That’s correct,” Cecil responds.

The defense then calls Brian Bunner, a lieutenant with the Indiana State Police.

Auger asks “Do you know what audio output means?” Bunner says no. She then asks, “have you done any Google searches?” He says “no.”

Defense says nothing further.

No cross.

Jury leaves the courtroom at 4:25 p.m.

Delphi Murders trial: Day 16 live blog

Day 16 in the trial of Delphi Murders suspect Richard Allen begins Tuesday at the Carroll County Courthouse in Delphi. Follow our live blog for the latest updates.

www.wishtv.com

 

[minor4th]

This is insanity. It was clearly from water damage. What is the defense’s theory, that they kidnapped two girls for a ritual sacrifice and decided to listen to some of their music on the drive? I sincerely hope the prosecution is able to cross effectively on this, because the entire scenario is just absolutely ridiculous.

JMO

How can you say it was clearly from water damage?

I’m also skeptical about this new info, but let’s wait til we get all the reports and hear cross examination.

 

[Warwick7]

At 3:09 p.m. prosecutor Nick McLeland starts cross-examination. he asks Eldridge about her training on cell phone extraction. She says this is the first time she has testified about cell phone extraction, other than in July.

Yikes

McLeland begins cross examination at 4:08 p.m. Cecil says he googled the water question asked by the jury before the break. He said a Google search said that a phone could register water or dirt in the headphone port as having headphones plugged in.

Not a fan of Cecil in this moment, but at least he got the correct answer on the record. If the jury is paying attention, the previous witness’ credibility should be shot.

JMO

Delphi Murders trial: Day 16 live blog

Day 16 in the trial of Delphi Murders suspect Richard Allen begins Tuesday at the Carroll County Courthouse in Delphi. Follow our live blog for the latest updates.

www.wishtv.com

BAM!!!!!
And that is what we are talken bout!!!!

 

[photographer4]

She answered No to the water question.

Delphi Murders trial: Day 16 live blog

Day 16 in the trial of Delphi Murders suspect Richard Allen begins Tuesday at the Carroll County Courthouse in Delphi. Follow our live blog for the latest updates.

www.wishtv.com

At 3:35 McLeland starts cross-examination again. Eldridge says that it takes “a little bit of movement” for a phone to start logging movements.

The jury asked the following questions:

1. Did you ever write your own timeline? Eldridge said “no, not enough time.”
2. Could any of this be related to Libby’s iPad? Eldridge says they were not synced.
3. Would water impact movement? Eldridge says no, that water would not impact the port.
4. Can you tell if the phone was on silent or vibrate? Eldridge says no.
5. Could you review Allen’s historical location timeline if he was using a “Ting” phone? She says she could if it was available.
6. Are there other apps that measure movement? She says yes, but did not look to see if Libby had them.

Court is in recess at 3:45 p.m.

Didn’t LE ever check if it the phone was on silent or vibrate when they first found it?? If not, why not???? Moo.

 

[m00c0w]

That's how the expert for the state did the comparisons as well.

No, she used the actual rounds under a comparison microscope…

JMO

 

[Warwick7]

At 4:07 p.m. court is back in session. Judge Gull starts off by scolding the jury, she says officers informed her of people in the jury talking and says anyone talking will be kicked out.

The defense calls to the stand First Sergeant Chris Cecil from ISP. Defense attorney Jennifer Auger asks him what an “audio output start” means. He says he does not know. Cecil says he doesn’t have the education to know why a cell phone would or wouldn’t connect to a tower.

McLeland begins cross examination at 4:08 p.m. Cecil says he googled the water question asked by the jury before the break. He said a Google search said that a phone could register water or dirt in the headphone port as having headphones plugged in.

Auger begins redirect and asks Cecil, “do you normally Google search when conducting research in a criminal investigation?” Cecil says “not normally, no.” Auger asks “you normally look at peer reviewed articles, right?” Cecil says “that’s correct.”

Auger asks “you and the state have had 7.5 years to research this?” “That’s correct,” Cecil responds.

The defense then calls Brian Bunner, a lieutenant with the Indiana State Police.

Auger asks “Do you know what audio output means?” Bunner says no. She then asks, “have you done any Google searches?” He says “no.”

Defense says nothing further.

No cross.

Jury leaves the courtroom at 4:25 p.m.

Delphi Murders trial: Day 16 live blog

Day 16 in the trial of Delphi Murders suspect Richard Allen begins Tuesday at the Carroll County Courthouse in Delphi. Follow our live blog for the latest updates.

www.wishtv.com

omg this is so so so good!!!!

 

[katydid23]

Another question asked if a direct examination by Warren would’ve been more conclusive. He indicated that it was “possible” but “could have gone either way.” Jurors also asked some technical questions regarding cartridges and how firearms make marks on rounds–and how they differ by manufacturer.

oh I believe Waren spoke the truth on that. I think that was the concern, that it "could have gone either way" JMO

Yes and also the reason they didn't do a report and that he was conveniently in Morocco and couldn't get deposed by the P.

 

[Bbgiraffe]

That seems like a LOT of hours. I can’t imagine spending 15 hours prepping for testimony.

Wait.....did they really pay her for 80 hours at 300 an hour? Forgive me not being a math expert but isn't that $24,000? Just seems steep. I understand we want him to have the best experts and best attorneys so there won't be any question of the verdict but.....just seems real, real expensive.

 

[minor4th]

Delphi Murders trial: Day 16 live blog

Day 16 in the trial of Delphi Murders suspect Richard Allen begins Tuesday at the Carroll County Courthouse in Delphi. Follow our live blog for the latest updates.

www.wishtv.com

Auger asks Eldridge to explain what a ‘ping’ is. She says it is a technical way to have one device see if another device is there. She says AT&T is repeatedly trying to ping Libby’s phone after 5:44 p.m. on Feb. 13, but is not successful until 4:33 a.m. on Feb. 14.

Eldridge says she doesn’t know why the phone did not ping in that time frame, even though it was under Abby’s back and was stationary. She says “I can only conclude something external happened to the phone.” That it could have been moved, blocked by metal or have been blocked from the tower.

Eldridge is asked about the phone’s health data. She says she agrees with what Cecil found about the data on the steps. She says iPhones will not log steps if you are in a car or if the phone is powered off.

Eldridge says she now knows that at 5:45:44 p.m. on Feb 13. to 10:32 p.m. that night that the phone had wired headphones plugged in. She demonstrates headphones being plugged into an iPhone 6S.

She says it could also have been an auxiliary cord for a car that was plugged into the phone. “I cannot think of any explanation that does not involve humans,” she tells the jury.

My theory based on nothing other than life experience is that the phone got wet in the creek and basically stopped working for several hours. When it dried out enough it came back on and all those messages were delivered. The defense should leave this alone IMO

 

[katydid23]

I have to wonder if it’s just one or two jury members who are well educated on guns and might be driving these questions and might have some sway on other jurors who know nothing about gun stuff.

ETA: I think the bullet is going to be a big part of their decision.

I noticed there are also jurors who seem to know a lot about mental health/psychology. So there may be a couple of jurors taking the lead there as well. If they are actually intelligent and well versed in those fields it's not a bad thing, imo.

 

[Momofthreeboys]

I'm really struggling to see what his defense are trying to prove here?
All they need to do is get him out of the trails at the time the girls were walking towards the bridge.
Providing wild theories and very sketchy expert witnesses for things they really don't need to be getting involved with is madness.

They don’t need to get him off the trails. There were several people on the trails.